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LSD legalization

That list takes into account harm in all forms - to the individual and wider society. Steroids are low on the list cos they're relatively little used and don't cause problems in wider society. Alcohol is high cos it not only causes immense damage to body and mind and is highly addictive but also causes umpteen problems in wider society. Same rules apply to all drugs on the list. That's what makes it such an accurate list.

And I get less riled up about making prescription drugs OTC cos not many people rob old ladies to get their penicillin fix. All drugs should be legal. But not necessarily OTC cos most folks aren't doctors and wouldn't have a clue. Recreational drugs are the issue cos that is the problem area.
 
Survived Abortion said:
Maybe it will, if people believe in the cause, rather than being pessimistic and handing back their power to the government. Only as long people remain ill-educated and self-disempowered, only as long as people rest on the laurels of self-serving legislative victories, will it remain. As more people come off the sidelines, open their eyes, and become involved in understanding, things start to change.
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Believe me I'm all for this, but the fact is that it's not being pushed hard enough for this to happen. Cannabis is on it's way to legalization in the US, but other drugs not so much. The majority of people that believe drugs should be legal probably don't go around telling everyone that because they may have a lot at stake in doing so. I think what needs to happen is a large scale, peaceful protest. We won't get people to open their eyes if we're only sharing our opinions amongst each other. If enough people will protest perhaps our voice can be heard, but we are simply not doing enough to spread the facts about the war on drugs.
 
Whos ready for my long winded, overly opinionated, and slightly off topic post of the day?

….

Well I guess I'll go on anyways. Be warned: Your probably not going to agree!

I say only decriminalize for those drugs (highly physically addicting or especially dangerous) and legalization for the others (non-physically addicting and mostly non-harmful), not because I feel like I am compromising, but because the bottom line is I do not believe a corporation (or dealers on the corner) should have the right to sell a physically addicting product for the purpose of making money (by the way I say physically addicting because, in theory, anybody can become phsychologically addicted to anything). For me I have to wonder when does the game change from the consumer choosing to exploitation? Disclaimer: Obviously I have nothing against taking any drug, morally or ethically or even just out of common sense, it is totally your freedom and your right to do so.

I believe it is very hard or next to impossible for a certain group of drug users, and im talking about the poorest or least educated or those lacking any common sense or self control, to put up a fighting chance against something like crack or heroin. It has absolutely nothing to do with me thinking I am better than them and everything to do with stopping these people from getting exploited. In fact, the only system that would exploit these people worse, is the current system of criminalization.

Let me reiterate for anybody not following so far. Every human on earth has the right to ingest however a harmful or addicting or potentially life ruining a substance as they want. Every human on earth also has the right to use that substance to the point of death, if they so choose. BUT think about it. Do you really think a black box warning like the one on a box of cigarettes would be sufficiently honest at portraying the risks?

“If used incorrectly this product can cause physical addiction and liver problems”

Do you think any amount of honest drug classes could portray the risks? I know probably just about every one on this board has had the monkey on there back at one time or another, myself included. I dont think all the education in the world could have prevented it. Making drugs illegal certainly didnt prevent it. Making them legal wont prevent it, and would probably make it a bit worse for a small period of time.

I guess the big question is should the whole system be forced to reflect the fact that there are people who just can not handle their drugs, or that there are certain drugs that are inherently much worse and much more dangerous then other types of drugs?

I think so. Maybe decriminalized or legalized are not the best terms to think about it. All or nothing seems beautiful, just, and poetic, but perhaps this issue simply goes beyond black and white. Maybe the answer can not simply be summed up as legalize all or legalize none. It can be summed up as “everybody has the right to take any drug they want, when ever they want, as long as this does not interfere with somebody else business” but when trying to actually implement this notion it becomes clear just how complicated things are.

Now heres something you'll really disagree with ;)

Somebody mentioned they wanted decriminalization for all drugs because they dont trust the government. I think that is ridiculous! I mean I'm a socialist and proud of it. Its not the state that scares me, its corporations, conservatives, and their influence that scares me, and it is for this very reason I want simple decriminalization for the worst drugs. If they were legalized big business would take over, with the end goal being profits. My fantasy would be that the government should inspect these drugs, make sure they're up to quality, make sure you're getting exactly what you want, and they should be the ones to distribute with appropriate harm reduction and education at safe locations, in a completely non-profit fashion, charging only exactly the cost to keep the whole operation going.
 
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I meant legalize LSD as in prescription, not like alcohol. Yes, there would be a high probablity of chaos if LSD could "be bought at a drugstore". However, if one was determined to be "ready" for acid, then they shouldn't get in trouble for it. Mostly the legalization and schedule 2ing of it rather than outright unregulation of it, at least not until later ;)
 
So you'd have to fill out a questionnaire and have the answers evaluated by The Gurdians of the LSD before being able to get some kinda prescription for it? Or you could just buy it from a dealer instead. Wonder which would happen...

Anything short of total legalisation of all drugs won't work cos it doesn't address the issues. The problem with all drugs (potential health risks aside for a moment) is that the market is controlled from top to bottom by gangsters and morons. This is what causes all the trouble (aside from the aforementioned possible health risks). Decriminalisation does nothing but protect a black market and legitimise it. It's legalisation or stick with what we have already cos tinkering around the edges will cause more harm than good.

Potential health risks already exist and are mostly down to the black market status of the drugs or as a direct result or prohibition itself (nasty cuts, overdoses, violence (to fund addictions or rivalry between dealers) and so on). Legalisation would reduce these risks, mostly eliminate some, and make those that remain far easier (and cheaper) to deal with.

Win/win rather than lose/lose. No brainer.
 
If society and the government were not so against DMT, i wish there were a church for it. I would totally become involved with that sort of thing.

DMT has shown me more than any religion has gotten close to.
 
moe.ron said:
Well I guess I'll go on anyways. Be warned: Your probably not going to agree!
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You're on the right tracks, there's no doubt about it. I know I didn't (and still don't) think the majority of the population can be trusted to have free reign.

I highly recommend you read the Blueprint for Regulation by the Transform Drug Policy Foundation, or at least the executive summary. It goes into great detail about the possible regulatory models in a legal distribution system, and is a valuable resource for anyone having this discussion in a serious capacity.

A few of the points I think are key:
  • Different drugs and different ROAs are regulated differently.
  • People are only allowed access to higher risk drugs when they prove that they are fully aware of the risks (i.e. a test & licence system)
  • The model MUST be flexible. The government can intervene at any time to raise or lower prices, in order to discourage use or smother black market uprising.
  • All advertising would be banned. If dispensaries were not government run, then profits would be limited or not allowed.
 
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Transform said:
I know I didn't (and still don't) think the majority of the population can be trusted to have free reign.
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Yes, you did, ancient Transform! (Let me tell you something, they do! People are proud, localized, and already crazy!)
 
jamaica0535 said:
If society and the government were not so against DMT, i wish there were a church for it. I would totally become involved with that sort of thing.

DMT has shown me more than any religion has gotten close to.
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There is a Christian church in Brazil (and probably elsewhere in SA) that is legally allowed to use Ayawaska as its sacrament. It's often used in studies on DMT due to its mainstream nature and regular (weekly) use of DMT with no obvious problems amongst the members or wider society. Kinda like the Native American church that can legally use mescaline cacti.

Also, I agree with Transform - the organisational namesake of his has some excellent ideas about the practicalities of legalisation. If I had to be realistic rather than idealistic about the idea they have the best - and most in depth - blueprint for a sensible system. Not quite what I would like to see but as close as a realistic plan gets to the ideal.
 
Shambles said:
Not quite what I would like to see but as close as a realistic plan gets to the ideal.
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Out of interest, what adjustments would you make?

I originally thought I'd like sensible drug use to be widespread, but when I decided the it wouldn't be sensible enough I really came around to their model of reducing use - as long as the drugs always remain easy to get for those who are equipped.
 
I would have complete legalisation of all drugs with the only restrictions being on age to legally buy (possibly dependent on substance,) advertising (none whatsoever) and a requirement for vendors to receive proper training and a licence - somewhat like a pharmacist in that they would be qualified to give good advice on safe usage, possible interactions and so on. I would also put a huge amount of the money saved by ending the moronic War on Drugs into education (starting from a very young age) and treatment facilities for those that get into difficulties. Not all that different from the Transform ideas but without the emphasis on reducing use cos I don't feel that is anything so great to be aiming for necessarily. I'd have the emphasis more squarely on safe use with no moralistic judgements being made at all.
 
Yeah, but not everyone will read and research drugs like we do, just ask people who do E and ask them what a tripple stack heiron based pill is, they'll say that it's the best goddam pill you could have.
Unless those type of people do get educated, I don't find it really logical to legalize ALL drugs.
 
I think the population is too stupid for such a laissez faire attitude to be safe. I think heroin and probably powder cocaine would need to be prescription only, with nice opium being easier (but still not like coffee now) and have some nice potential for connoisseurship like that seen with other natural products.
 
I have greater faith in humanity than most. But staggered legalisation and a massive and ongoing education push would be my favoured approach just in case. I think most folks are too hung up on the short-term problems and missing the bigger picture of long-term benefits. Look at heroin use in the UK up until it stopped being prescribed for addicts in the 60s - there were less than 100 in the whole country. Go prohibition :\

Same goes prior to that in the UK and the US - very small problem easily kept under control. Same went for cocaine too.

Addiction treatment is a joke and what keeps many addicted who wish they could stop. Provide adequate treatment and they stop using of their own accord. Sooner or later.
 
I just think if cocaine was legal, then we'd have a lot of retarded and even more egotistical bosses.
 
The elitist bullshit needs to stop. It's all very well saying that you're a responsible user of drugs, "but here are the guidelines that we shall set in place for Jon Doe down the road because he can't think his way out of a paper bag." You are Jon Doe. And every person, no matter how intelligent you may think they are, has a right to make their own decisions without drug policy reformists breathing down their neck.
 
I think pretty much anyone who wants any drug that's illegal, can get it anyway... whats the point of spending money trying to enforce some battle they will never win? spend more money on health care and free rehabs, I forget where but I saw a documentary on a place somewhere in the UK that the bottom level is a safe place with nurses to help you safely do whatever drugs you had/wanted... there was a mirror in front of every person so they would see themselves and because of this some would end their drug use, in which case they go to the second floor of the building which is a full rehab... its all voluntary and it works... way better than any drug laws or enforcement here in the US... in my opinion anyway...



but if were choosing one to legalize... we can say pretty much without a doubt weed will be legalized first... and if it was L, it would be too well known that, that had happened, and it would become a thing, and I personally don't think the US is ready for that... we are over consumers... people will start tripping so much, and in such amounts, bad things are SURE to happen to give them reason to make it illegal again, and scare the public with the selective media... and then they will probably try and overcompensate and crack down even harder on L...

if it was all drugs at once, I think it would be a bit better because then there is no hype about a single one, there is no REASON for people to try that one in particular, people will just keep on doing what they do...
 
my 2 cents

i don't think legalization would equate mass LSD usage. while use would certainly go up, it wouldn't be anything to be concerned about. just about any university student can acquire acid at some point during their academic/hedonistic career, but few of them go through with it. it's not something everybody wants to try.
 
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