LSD legalization

[Shambles]

Probably. But you're thinking short term. It took almost a century for society to get this bad with prohibition. Will take a generation or two at least for legalisation to fix it. If such a thing as common sense ever happens.

 

[Transform]

wellll if you want to know my opinion

legalize all non-physically addictive and safe if not completely misused drugs

decriminalize all physically addicting and carcinogenic drugs (make them readily avaible, and of pure and safe quality for those who choose to take them, but no I do not believe companies should be able to get rich off of physically addiciting drugs)

BUT whatever you do

end the damn war on drugs

Where do you draw the line? What makes physical addiction so much worse than psychological?


We aim high so that when (yep, when ) we have to compromise with the ill-educated, it makes progress in steps instead of shuffles.

 

[Survived Abortion]

In regards to psychedelics that are stronger than cannabis, they are slowly starting to find a legitimate place in medicine, and I think people would be much more open to their use as medicine when cannabis is legal. Maybe people who badly need psilocybin will be able to get it.

But I don't want doctors, the medical profession, the government, regulating these things. I don't want doctors doling out prescriptions of psychedelics while the government tries to prevent those whom they have decided don't need them having access to them. I will decide whether I should use it or not.

^^This. And also, the average American wouldn't be able to handle a psychedelic trip. It would be dangerous and irresponsible to make powerful hallucinogens legal, to the point where anybody and their mother could go purchase them from a local drug store. Society couldn't handle it. There would be anarchy.

Rubbish. Who has the almighty high-ground of wisdom and morality to decide who is able to handle psychedelic drugs? Indigenous cultures have been using these things for millenia. I am a creature of mother Earth. I don't have to ask anyone's permission to use psychedelics drugs, because we are all automatically entitled to use them by birth, (by the fact that we exist), just as we are entitled to eat potatoes, to blink.

If someone wants to experience a psychedelic now they can very easily find something that can be bought legally.

I don't believe they can easily find these things. Look at Ibogaine, or Ayahuasca. How many people in the world (as a proportion) do you think are even aware of these sacred medicines, their lineage, and that they can imbibe without breaking 'law'? Probably not any more than those who know that illegal drugs are no more harm to society than the crap they watch on TV. (Undoubtedly much less). This is one reason why we want the laws repealed, besides the fact that it is completely counter to our most fundamental laws of nature to impose the inhibition of freedom of choice.

Disagree. Legalise all drugs. Tis the only sensible option. And will never happen precisely because it's the only sensible option

Mindfruit: Since when was anarchy a Bad Thing? Anarchy is a brilliant way to organise (organise may not be quite the right word but you know what I mean ) society. You're thinking of chaos which is a totally different thing.

Totally agree with you Shammy.

They all need to be totally legal, but there do need to be controls on use to stop children and the unprepared from accessing them.

I don't see why there should be such controls. Education should be enough, if we can cut through the bullshit fed to people through their television gods.

As Shambles and Izzy have said, psilocybin mushrooms were legal in the UK up until 2005 and children were not at any more risk than they are today. And as also mentioned here, drugs were legal before the first world war, and again there were no more age related concerns about substance use than there are today. If anything, prohibition and regulation of drugs and alcohol makes it all the more tempting for juveniles to express their anti-authortarian attitudes, and for pubescent youngster to use drugs as a leg up in the social pecking order.

I'm not disagreeing that they all should be legal, but I don't think that's how it's going to happen.

Maybe it will, if people believe in the cause, rather than being pessimistic and handing back their power to the government. Only as long people remain ill-educated and self-disempowered, only as long as people rest on the laurels of self-serving legislative victories, will it remain. As more people come off the sidelines, open their eyes, and become involved in understanding, things start to change.

Believe me, the chances that pot will be legalized is probably a ton more likely than to get all drugs legalized. Let's just start with pot.

This is only due to general ignorance. Some non-drug users are wiser to this than many users - a strange paradox caused by the inherent greed of being in a comfortable situation. Learn and pass on the knowledge. Each one, teach one.

^^ Starting with cannabis is fine by me. What I was objecting to is those folks who make a big artificial separation between it and other drugs - "Legalise weed? Hell yeah. But not those scary other drugs like acid cos nobody except the chosen few can handle them. And legalising heroin or cocaine would surely bring down society by the following afternoon" kinda thing. All drugs were legal until the 1920s or thereabouts. It really wasn't such a problem then and would be even less of a problem now cos we actually understand the positive and negative effects they have.

Verily agreed!

 

[Shambles]

At the risk of turning this into a circle jerk, I agree with everything you said there too, Survivor

 

[Character Zero]

I vote for decriminalization more so then legalization.

I dun won't the DAMN government fucking with my chemical swag.

Like the Native Americans said: "Only a white man could think he could improve this sysyem"

 

[Shambles]

What's the point of decriminalisation? Just means you don't get busted so often as a user but the drug trade is still run by criminals. The government are also criminals but at least there are independent checks and balances in place to fend off the worst of it.

 

[Transform]

I don't see why there should be such controls. Education should be enough, if we can cut through the bullshit fed to people through their television gods.

I wish there didn't have to be, but people don't listen to education, and we can't cut the bullshit.
Humans are too stupid to look after themselves, they need to be told what to do, and even then they need help doing it.

The education is but a search away on the internet, and yet some people still (avoidably) OD.

 

[ColtenLikes2Trip]

Id say that as nice as it'd be to have lsd legal its best to keep it illegal. Most peopke wouldn't be able to handle it and they would give lsd a bad name and make it illegal once again but with a more bad rap

 

[Shambles]

And again

Why are you better than the rest of the world's population, Colten?

 

[psyisk]

Psys will most likely never become legal.
Majority of the population are brainwashed idiots, who place the social stigma on LSD and more.
Maybe years and years down the road, we will see a possibly of legalization, but it's still highly improbable.

 

[donvliet]

Why are people, even on these boards, so scared of legalising drugs? Where does the notion that it will create mayhem come from? Are we so programmed to believe that drugs are evil?

Studies have failed to prove ANY correlation between drug laws and drug use. From the most oppressive countries (like the US) to the most liberal (Netherlands), there is hardly any difference in actual use. The ultimate showcase was the famous US prohibition of alcohol. All it did was push the business underground. It was a huge boost for organised crime, but hardly had any impact on the demand.

So there is no reason to believe that drug use will get out of control when we legalise. Of course there will always be a percentage of users that can't handle their drugs. But this has nothing to do with drugs being legal or not.

Alcohol is again a good showcase. It's considered a relatively dangerous drug, as is tobacco. According to The Lancet both are more dangerous than LSD, weed and XTC. Check out the table at the bottom of this BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm. Both alcohol and tobacco are legal and neither of them causes the mayhem people expect from legal drugs.

Off course drugs aren't risc free. But we don't ban cars, chain saws, mountaineering, skiing, diving, crossing the street, junkfood etc, do we? You can't tell people what riscs they aren't allowed to take with their own body and mind.

 

[interleukin]

When even antibiotics and topical corticosteroids are prescription only it is silly to think that powerful halucinogens will be made legal/unregulated anytime soon. Also, I don't think any government should "encourage" the use of these drugs for obvious reasons (degrading performance and increased risk of psycological problems). Making them completely unregulated pretty much does this. So, decriminalization not legalization for powerful psychoactive drugs is the route that a government is more likely to take.

Alcohol is again a good showcase. It's considered a relatively dangerous drug, as is tobacco. According to The Lancet both are more dangerous than LSD, weed and XTC. Check out the table at the bottom of this BBC article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6474053.stm. Both alcohol and tobacco are legal and neither of them causes the mayhem people expect from legal drugs.

MDMA is much much much worse for your brain than alcohol or tobacco - my memory is fucked because of it and I have used only a handful of times, I had my first and only mental breakdown the day after large amounts of pot and have HPPD undoubtedly from my use of psychedelics.
I think people on forums like this are quick to hate on "the man" and maintain an overly pro-drug agenda. Think of it from the perspective of a society maker - why do you think society would be better if you could buy acid and mdma at the pharmacy OTC? If anything the alcohol example highlights that society cant handle powerful intoxicants well. There should be a balance between freedom to do what you want and "guiding" society down the right path in an unforceful manner.

 

[Shambles]

Are you sure you took MDMA and MDMA alone those handful of times it "fucked your memory"? That would be known doses of pharm-grade crystal, yes? Not shonky pills containing fuck knows what at who knows what dose naturally, yes? Cos it would rather argue the case for legalisation if the latter is nearer the truth.

Incidentally, I have used more MDMA than many folks reading this will ever see in their lives very heavily for just shy of 20 years and my memory works just fine. Is my anecdotal evidence more pertinent than yours?

 

[nopipesdfw]

^^ Decriminalization is still bullshitting completely about how the flow of material goods work on this planet.

Some things are not realistic to shape society to, especially with the unpredictable nature of reality. (If millions of people did not die every year just from poor water supply around the globe, maybe I would then support spending on status quo agenda based crusades for "balance".... just kidding.)

 

[interleukin]

Are you sure you took MDMA and MDMA alone those handful of times it "fucked your memory"? That would be known doses of pharm-grade crystal, yes? Not shonky pills containing fuck knows what at who knows what dose naturally, yes? Cos it would rather argue the case for legalisation if the latter is nearer the truth.

Incidentally, I have used more MDMA than many folks reading this will ever see in their lives very heavily for just shy of 20 years and my memory works just fine. Is my anecdotal evidence more pertinent than yours?

Pure MDMA powder - I did take a lot more than I should have because of having access to large quantities of it (prob 500mg+ each sitting). Porbably my genetic predosposition to it but that being said - no mdma for me would have equalled good memory. Maybe it was because I overdid it + genetic predisposition but if it happened to me it could happen to anyone. Not trying to knock mdma - it is a wonderful drug but is definitely nasty when abused. If I could not maintain self control with it I see no reason to believe that everyone else in the world can.
These drugs obviously have medical potential (I even feel that shrooms fixed my long lasting problem with depression) but their recreational use must not be "encouraged" by society. I am also bothered by these side effects a lot more due to the nature of my work where I'm required to be competitevely intelligent and creative all the time. If I did something that involved less science and engineering I would consider the side effects I have to be minor.

 

[Shambles]

How pure was the powder?

I keed. I have mostly always used crystal (80-90% when GC/MS tested over the years - generally at the higher end) and was getting through 1/8 a day at one point. I like a lil MD me. I don't doubt it can fuck people over but so can crossing a road or standing up too quick in a nasty crosswind (possibly not the best examples but ya get the point ) but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. When drugs are illegal they are cut and totally under the control of the black market. How does that help anything or anybody?

 

[nopipesdfw]

When drugs are illegal they are cut and totally under the control of the black market. How does that help anything or anybody?

Hey, at least when citizens turn to their grandfathers advisers for information about gettin' crunk, they know our message is that it is clearly wrong. (The function of government and law enforcement in the past century has gotten fucking hilarious and it seems normal to whoever is nourished into it their entire lives, but hey, us confused humans can only try to bend the nature of our reality, let's see where this goes.)

 

[donvliet]

Also, I don't think any government should "encourage" the use of these drugs for obvious reasons (degrading performance and increased risk of psycological problems).

Legalising doesn't equal encouraging. Drugs shouldn't have been made illegal in the first place.

MDMA is much much much worse for your brain than alcohol or tobacco - my memory is fucked because of it and I have used only a handful of times, I had my first and only mental breakdown the day after large amounts of pot and have HPPD undoubtedly from my use of psychedelics.

The Lancet is a highly regarded medical journal and the research that led to their ranking was thorough and viewed from various perspectives. Alcohol is much more addictive than mdma and causes brain and liver damage. Your memory problems are more likely caused by pot.

why do you think society would be better if you could buy acid and mdma at the pharmacy OTC?

Benefits from legalising all drugs:
- legal drugs cause less health issues due to known dose and composition
- drug law enforcement costs huge amounts of tax money, while not getting results
- non violent drug offenders wouldn't be in prison
- organised crime would lose a multi-billion dollar business
- drug users cause less problems when they aren't outcasts of society and drugs would be reasonably priced
- repressive systems are bad for quality of life in general

If anything the alcohol example highlights that society cant handle powerful intoxicants well.

Wether society can or cannot handle them, prohibition only makes things worse.

 

[Shambles]

Day-um, Don. And I thought I was good at pro-legalisation arguments

 

[interleukin]

I'm sure that publication was analyzed throughly but I think most people would argue the placement of many drugs on that list. Also, alcohol is definitely not more reinforcing than mdma for most people and I have used pot only a handful of times. It causes liver damage? why are anabolic steroids so low on that list then - definitely the most damaging on the body out of all those drugs if used improperly...
I'm surprised people get so riled up about legalizing drugs that have high potential to be harmful to individuals and hence society but care less about making current prescription only drugs available OTC. I want all drugs but scheduled ones to be OTC and personal use of scheduled/potent psychoactive drugs to be legal btw.