LSD - does anyone agree? (argument about LSD being unhealthy)

[bitchamonth]

LSD is not healthy and frankly, when you begin to really understand it, then you learn that it is a less interesting way to experience life, it deprives the mind, and in the long term has negative effects, like confusion and depression, that need to be disclosed at all times.

WGAF.
Useless and Pointless worrying.

 

[DOB]

LSD is not healthy and frankly, when you begin to really understand it, then you learn that it is a less interesting way to experience life, it deprives the mind, and in the long term has negative effects, like confusion and depression, that need to be disclosed at all times.

not so long ago i crowned one post here biggest crap i reed 2013,just few days before new year,i came to this....

"less interesting" haha sure sure 8)

 

[SONN]

I sincerely believe that LSD could be healthy for anyone, given that they aren't deficient in any nutrients that might make the trip more stressful for your brain. But it would have to be administered at the perfect dose.

if you could get an IV drip of 15 micrograms and slowly add 5 mics as needed, then use whatever sedatives necessary to end it when all the necessary healing has been done, nobody would freak out.

in a therapeutic setting I don't see how anyone could have a bad time.

 

[TangerinO]

Tripping is not about the drug you're tripping on, as much as what you're bringing to the table. I'd say this thread is somewhat evident of that.

 

[lovepsychadelics]

LSD is unhealthy, so is a fucking big mac. Dose frequency blah blah oh and chemistry. Nutrients??? WTF? How about a fucking colonic enema before I trip. Pharmacodynamics and the interactions of various substances with receptor sites and the corresponding systemic reaction ie tachycardia, raised blood pressure etc. Harmless no, unhealthy yes but in the context of what? LSD is harmless at say 100 ug's vs a speedball of cocaine and heroin. LSD at 100 ug's and driving a car for 3 hours possibly lethal.

I think a few posters may have had a little to much lucy to be such staunch advocates of it being good for your health. It's not but a bee sting is not great either but nothing more than a temporary discomfort, unless allergic and then it's life threatening. Dose, setting, experience, context etc. LSD at the correct dose in a safe setting with experienced users is reasonably benign but unknown dose, unsafe setting with novice users... could be a disaster.

 

[nativenick]

i disagree with the notion that lsd is a less interesting way to look at life. drugs really in and of them selves is seeing the world and experiencing it differently than you would sober or on another drug. acid very much became boring to me when it was doing 3 times a week for an entire summer ditto when i was doing 2cx drugs and went over board with them. it got to the point where sobrietey was funner than being on psychedelics the point being everything becomes mundane when you over do it

 

[SONN]

I stand by the fact that if we knew exactly what the dosage was one could work their way up to a comfortable therapeutic level without ever experiencing negative effects.

the problem is its so potent and the amount of each dosage is almost always pure speculation.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I stand by the fact that if we knew exactly what the dosage was one could work their way up to a comfortable therapeutic level without ever experiencing negative effects.

the problem is its so potent and the amount of each dosage is almost always pure speculation.

This.

If your mindstate is good and you dose properly there is nothing unhealthy about it, try and prove me wrong. We've yet to see a single death attributed to LSD alone and the fact that it's active in the microgram range makes this feat a spectacular vouch for it's safety margin. FFS more people die from fucking cheeseburgers than LSD. The OP has issues if you read his nonsense posts scattered accross this forum, no wonder he finds it depressing and unhealthy. He also seems extremely young and immature and LSD may very well affect a developing brain. Also he admited to using LSD along with tobacco, alcohol, and cannabis as an "escape from reality", a prime candidate for someone who shouldn't be touching any psychedelics. Also for the comment stating that the ones who argue it's safety have taken too much, that's BS. I take LSD 3-4 times a year max and will argue it's benefits til the day I die. Respect LSD and it will respect you, that's all I have to add.

 

[aperson444]

I have been diagnosed with and have been treated for major depressive disorder for around four years now. It started well before I started using psychoactive substances (except for caffeine and alcohol). Taking LSD (purported to be around 180 ug) helped me detach from my stubborn, negative, and often paranoid view of the world. In that sense, I was able to take a look at my life without the bias of my mind. It didn't cure me; I relapsed a year or so later and was very close to suicide, but I always remembered what I saw during that trip. That memory gave me a shred of hope that the world might not be the shithole that it seems like it is.

Pharmacologically, I think that most psychedelics aid in neuroplasticity. That seems to be a major function of the 5HT2a receptor. Not every experience will be magical and life-changing, but LSD and other psychedelics provide the user with the tools to address his/her life seriously. With that said, there is fine line between abuse and use. Overusing any drug carries the ability of negatively impacting neurophysiology and cognition (alongside adverse somatic effects). Overusing LSD or any psychedelic can promote the formation of characteristic traits of psychosis.

 

[pmoseman]

I never said I took drugs as an escape.
A guy that shot up a lot of LSD, we assume on accident, died.
Your claim is that with the right kind of mindset that no harm will come to you. This is just simple self-hypnosis.
People can walk on lava rocks, survive freezing, lay on a board of nails, tame wild creatures, walk away from explosions and so on, sure. The only reason these are considered feats is because they appear dangerous and in some cases are dangerous. I can prove your faith in set is bullshit, because it can be explained with a little know-how.
Such beliefs are difficult to let go of because you feel like they have a power, but you can tame a fangless cobra, support your weight on a bunch of nails, walk on insulating bed of rocks with very little heat capacity, and you can do all that without believing in any spiritual power. Just like any idiot can trip acid without any worries about having their "set" right.
They know cheeseburgers contribute to death because cheeseburgers are legal. You do not have a single case where someone, from eating cheeseburgers, has died without any other contributing factors. You can not narrow it down to a cheeseburger.
People who suffer drug induced psychosis cannot return to using those drugs simply because they got their set squared away.

 

[SONN]

It's so flattering to be quoted in an argument

I'm claiming LSD until you get to "psychotomimetic" effects is entirely benign.

Psilocybin is proven to help rats "dissociate the negative emotional response from the stimuli" basically proving that it's therapeutic. I'd put my money on LSD doing something similar.

IMHO, my guess is that until you're "too high" they're not going to harm you in any way.

 

[Toz]

In my experience, most drugs are what you make them. Everything will cause problems if used inapproprietely, LSD being no different. The healthy thing to do would be just to stay away entirely, but that's no fun.

 

[pmoseman]

Sonn you claim to be from Norf Philthadelphia. Is that a lisp you have?

 

[SONN]

no its a colloquialism of a disgusting city.

 

[Incunabula]

A guy that shot up a lot of LSD, we assume on accident, died.

Yes, he shot 40 MILLIGRAM, which is 400 doses of LSD, into his arm and died.
On the other hand, a couple who insufflated "coke sized" lines of LSD powder, by accident, survived.

LSD is extremely safe physically, compared to most other recreational drugs, it's a fact. You have to consider that LSD is probably the psychedelic drug that has been most widely distributed since the 60'ies (except for mushrooms) and still is the one with the least fatalities on it's concience. Of cause it can kill you, everything can in large enough doses.

http://www.erowid.org/lsd_death

On the topic about LSD causing depression:

"Precipitation of Psychosis. LSD may have the ability to trigger psychotic symptoms in those predisposed to psychosis. This is problematic because psychotic or schizophrenic disorders most frequently manifest in those in their late teens or early twenties, the same age that use of LSD is most common. Individuals with a family history of schizophrenia or early onset mental illness should be extremely careful because LSD is known to trigger latent psychological problems. "Fortunately, however, these drugs do not appear to produce illness de novo in otherwise emotionally healthy persons, but these problems seem to be precipitated in predisposed individuals."1 This adverse event is apparently quite rare: as Dr. Nichols of Purdue University observed in 2004: "A search of Medline in early 2003 for case reports of LSD-induced psychosis found only three reports in the previous 20 years."

Precipitation of Depression. Experts dispute whether LSD use has been solidly linked to depression resulting in intentional suicide. See LSD Death: Suicide. LSD use, even in the context of formal psychotherapy, has been reported to trigger short-term or lasting depressions in some people.14 LSD psychotherapy researchers in the 1950s and 1960s regularly identified depression following an LSD experience in articles discussing its use. Betty Eisner and Sidney Cohen wrote: "We have observed that a transient depression sometimes follows an LSD-25 session. This may be due to several factors: (1) the inability to integrate all of the unacceptable traumatic material uncovered during the session; (2) the feeling that the necessary effort is too great to be undertaken; (3) "coming back to earth" after a transcendent experience. It is therefore important that some sympathetic person be with the patient during the evening following treatment. A more serious type of depression has been observed to occur when insights acquired under the drug are not translated into the life situation."14 People prone to depression or suicidal thinking may be more likely to suffer this response following exposure to psychedelics."

http://www.erowid.org/lsd_health

But more interesting, and that was actually what I was going to post was this study:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063972

Here's an article, with a short break down, about the study:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/-lsd-and-magic-mushrooms-%E2%80%9Ccan-be-good-for-you%E2%80%9D-110829860.html#VTiXrOZ

"After adjusting for other risk factors, lifetime use of LSD, psilocybin, mescaline or peyote, or past year use of LSD was not associated with a higher rate of mental health problems or receiving mental health treatment," says Pål-Ørjan Johansen.

That said, I'm not going to argue with you, pmoseman, in my eyes you're not much more than a troll.

 

[SONN]

he was certainly trolling me..

 

[pmoseman]

...

The people who insufflated LSD at the party would have likely died without medical intervention.
Your second point is an opinion. People predisposed to [blank] are more likely to suffer [blank] when exposed to LSD. Seems kind of self-evident. Another way to look at this is, LSD is not good at treating [blank]. You can find other opinions that disagree and say LSD can treat [depression].
Your third point is an article that is persuasive, it has math. My only question is if LSD is not a risk factor and 98 percent of the population of LSD users smoke marijuana and marijuana is a risk factor, then how big of a risk is marijuana? It is a question only Johansen and Krebs can answer, and until they do it does not help answer any questions.
In other words, they do not show their math; so why should I be persuaded?
I assume the researchers are credibile but this is a highly speculative game, even if all the numbers were given, and the media portrays the study findings as concrete.

 

[pmoseman]

he was certainly trolling me..

I have found that humans value their uniqueness - that sense that they are different from everyone else. The existence of a double would preclude that feeling. Could that be the source of the friction?

 

[Shadowsblaze]

I had heard or read that taking LSD causes a chemically indused psychotic experience. Or it might have been a schizophrenic experience, I can't remember exactly.

 

[pmoseman]

I had heard or read that taking LSD causes a chemically indused psychotic experience. Or it might have been a schizophrenic experience, I can't remember exactly.

This was in the early discussion of LSD before research expanded.