LSD analogues & oz LSD purity

[chugs]

being a slow news day and since I can't find it any other thread (that's not in the US & http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55915&perpage=25&pagenumber=1 wasn't too helpful) I was hoping that a long running argument between my friends and I can be set straight (also I'm on the hunt for some so my curiosity is somewhat heighten).

Basically the argument has been what causes the huge disparity between ones experience compared to other trips (blotter that is) i.e. I can have a very visual trips, and others have trips that are a bit of a mind fuck.

I've always put it down to mood and setting but my peers have argued that its due to shoddy or lazy manufacture of the trip which causes the trip not to be LSD-25.

Has anyone had the privilege of been able to try (and known it) other LSD analogues and can attest to the differences in experience compared against LSD 25 or perhaps someone out there may have known or read somewhere about the qauntitive testing of LSD and may have the results handy (and had first hand experince)? Unfortunately all the other forums on this issue are US based and i was more concerned about local supply i.e. what is the purity of australian LSD?

On http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/tihkal/tihkal26.shtml it does talk about other substances in the family, like UML-491, Methysergide, Sansert - but are their analogues common. I know there is hardly anyway to test it but someone out there must of tested LSD in australia (and not 60s or 70s)?

 

[Cowboy Mac]

A thread that might interest you: LSD blotters sublingually vs. LSD blotter solution. It discusses an experiment performed based on a MAPS posting and and Erowid posting from Shulgin.

 

[Jonah]

I think that maybe even if u did get to try what u know is lsd25, and compare it to what you are having now it still would not explain why people have different trips, I think basically it is is a perception thing, in the respect that we are all going to handle the experience differently .

I do have a bit of a theory as to why some people seem to experience more visuals and other seem to get a bit of a mind fuck,

basically i think that firstly the lsd (or simular chem) alters your sub-conscious thinking, which in turn your body will have a physical reaction to, in the same way as when a certain memory response is triggered in everyday life, certain sensations then are felt throughout different parts of the body.

These sensations, are what we call emotions, but in actual fact the feeling we get is just the bodys reaction or symptom to a learnt response from an emotional memory,

Eg: when we are frightened we are not aware that we are frightened until we get the symptoms such as increased heart rate, raised temperature, sweaty palms. But the process inside our brain, to trigger these things has already happened long before the symptoms.

So i think that alot of the mind fuck for some people, is not being able to understand why they are thinking and feeling the way they are, at that particular time on that trip. And sometimes trying to understand it at the wrong time. U need to learn to adapt your conscious perception of why, and how you are feeling or thinking on that certain day.

look for trigger signs in the same way that u would detect triggers of ur normal emotions, such as anger sadness and happiness but at the same time remember you are tripping and things are very exagerated

If you find yourself thinking in an unusual, peculiar or sometimes even sick kind of way that you are not used to, don't think of it as a bad or negative thing, those tthoughtswill only send you deeper into that thought best not to take ur imagination too seriously and have a larughlargh at the warped out shit that just popped into your head ,use it to stimulate you in a positive way.

Note i say Adapt your conscious perception Because your conscious perception is the last step of thought which leads u into your next sub-conscious thought. basicallycly whim im saying is u can use your conscious perception to ask your sconsciousous a question, the very next thing yvisualizeise is your true untarnished answer that has used ur very first thought, before you get a chance to change that thought into what u want it, or what u think society or partners or parents expectations of you are.

It only takes somewhere between .05 and 2 seconds (depending on how lucid your state may be) before your conscious or working memory will start to influence your firstimplicitd. After a bit of practice u can quite easily see the conscious mind take over, a good way to expose yourweaknessess toyourselff, or to see where you may be getting or have been overly influenced in life.

Really its a double bonus, because both at the same time u answer the questions of what u really want and what thought or expectations are stopping u from achieving what u want.

Thats not saying if others expectations are u holding back blame them. Because quite often it can be your expectation of there's, or your own expectations that is the real problem. So as much as u get the answer using your implicit forms of memory, its important to use logic and reasoning when implicating solutions especially if other people are involved, if others are involved i find it best to only let them in on your idea for a solution rather than the answer.

But when u have mindspace and the ability to deal with anything that comes to ur mind by somehow consciously analysing your own sub-conscious you get a feeling of what they call emotional flow which in turn creates pure pleasure, giving your tthoughtsand feelings the ability to flow.

The more understanding you rreceivethe more pleasure u rreceiveand when we feel pleasure of this kind of self understanding, we then begin to be able to vvisualizewhat is on our sub-conscious mind at the time, Helping create more understanding of who we really are and the ways we can help ourselves.

It does take some time to be able to reconize how these visuals relate to our sub-conscious and more importantly to be able to be honest with ourselves about it. Somethings may take years to work out, but the first step is awareness, to both ur positive and negative traits and to find this awareness.

We also need to to trust our perception of what consciousness is,
whilst also being conscious that emotion is only perception, remembering that 1 cannot exist without the other two, or is that just how we pperceiveit!!


Disclaimer:
In saying all this i am in no way saying that any of it is fact its just a concept that interests me alot, like i said earlier "Never take your imagination too seriously" I like too think of it as aerobics for the brain.

Please nobody think that I am saying lsd or any drug for that matter, are a way to sort your problems or the problems of the world. It is just that some people can find ways to use them as tool, to bbroardenthe scope of ttheirthinking. There are some people who these chemicals just don't agree with in life. Its up to yourself to know who u are when u should stop!!.

Mods: Sorry if this has wandered a bit off topic, Kinda lost touch with the orig question..

 

[res]

I've always put down different acid trips as different LSD analogues.

Some trips are visual, some are mindfuck and some you just sit there laughing for 8 hours. Then theres acid that feels 'dirty' and its relative cousin, 'clean' acid. I've had acid hit me in 20 minutes and some thats taken over 1.5 hours. Some trips last for 8 hours, some for 12 or 14. Theres so much variance in acid experience that there has to be more at play than set and setting.

Of course this is just my theory, and its more than likely wrong, so dont take my word for it.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

As stated in the thread I linked to above, I believe the answer is:

from erowid shulgin says

Its possible that poorly synthesized LSD might have other ergot derivatives in it, which might contribute to the harsh body load that some get on taking LSD. Also, the very close chemical relatives 1-Methyl-LSD and 1-Acetyl-LSD (which break down into LSD in aqueous solution) might be present in some street samples and might contribute to the harsh body load. (Petter Stafford has claimed in his _Psychedelics Encyclopedia_ that 1-Acetyl-LSD is supposedly "smoother" than d-LSD -- thus "strychnine laced acid" may acutally be pure d-LSD, while "pure lsd" may be 1-Acetyl-LSD or some substitute). And the chemicals iso-LSD and lumi-LSD which are breakdown products of LSD might contribute to the body loading on some trips, particularly via a hypothetical synergistic effect. Given this plethora of possible chemicals in street "LSD", its not needed to look to a chemical which has hardly ever been found in analysed samples to explain variations in the strength and "cleanliness" of street acid.

I believe this coupled by set and setting accounts for the difference in effect, and the perceived difference in onset. If you put the blotter in distilled water and drink the water only (also discussed in my post/link above) then you will find it to be a different, and smoother experience. If a manufacturer is trying to make LSD, they will probably end up with LSD with some ergot derivates rather than a completely accidental analogue; and as Shulgin seems to think, its probably these by-products that are the culprit.

 

[Jonah]

Thats fair enough to say that poorly synthesized lsd would contribute, but does that explain how a group of people can have the same acid and same ammount yet not all have the same effect. Or can it explain why some people within that group always get visuals when others dont. Im not disputing that chemical make up is a factor. Is it possible some people have a higher concentration of certain natural chems in there bodys to produce a more visual experiance for them? More pleasure = more color and vice versa, one always compements the other.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

Originally posted by Jonah
Thats fair enough to say that poorly synthesized lsd would contribute, but does that explain how a group of people can have the same acid and same ammount yet not all have the same effect. Or can it explain why some people within that group always get visuals when others dont.

Drugs affect different people in different ways, this coupled by set and setting accounts for a massive variance in the way drugs affect people.

Is it possible some people have a higher concentration of certain natural chems in there bodys to produce a more visual experiance for them?

I have a higher dose threshold than most people when it comes to psychedelics, which could be explained by genetic make-up or cross-tolerance. I have a higher dose for the same affect, whereas the same could be true for people with a lower dose threshold. If I were to have the same dose as someone else their trip would be stronger and more visual than mine for example.

 

[Jonah]

Thanks Mac, thats a pretty logical answer, just read my first post again, I think my mind may have been a little overactive at the time of writing.

 

[chugs]

i too like reading those articles from shulgin and co yet i wonder if anyone (and a small group of their friends) out there has had the chance to consume regular "pure" LSD then compare against LSD of a lesser purity?

from reading these forums you could be lead to believe acid was fairly common place, and as such hat some people must be pretty close to the wizards who brew these batches up. Has no one ever attempted to test different brews of acid, perhaps assured as "pure" against batches that do contain by products? Will quantitive testing of LSD be possible. I only ever read about it regarding ecstasy.

perhaps dosage plays an important part since its always difficult to ascertain the quantity?

 

[phase_dancer]

Will quantitive testing of LSD be possible. I only ever read about it regarding ecstasy.

Forget quantitative testing from any authorized body in the near future. The best chance of such a test being available would come through a user or "field kit" based system.

Anyway, I doubt LSD will ever be able to be analyzed quantitatively using just chemical reagents, at least without a super-duper detector. LSD requires that a derivative is made before chromatography/ MS etc. Not exactly kitchen chemistry.

 

[ghostcorps]

visual Vs mind fuck

its not really as simple as I am about to explain.. but ill leave the detailed research up to you.

Visual trips are also reffered to as externalised trips... where your mind (for whatever reason) projects the trip outwards effecting your external sences, heightening your perception of the outside world. This is also commonly reffered to as a 'good trip' because it has little head fuck involved compared to...

Mind fuck.. or Internalised trip.. where the tripper looks inward (metaphysically) with the heightened perception of himself and his ego, personality, behaviours .. things can start to get very out of hand if you are not prepared to see yourself in such a light.. or they can be very cathartic... so instead of buildings melting.. the tripper believs that he is not normal (for want of a better word) this can be very scary when you start thingking you have spiders under your skin etc... hence bad trip.

of course good trip / bad trip is not quite so black and white... but in general a bad trip is more often than not an internalised experience.

 

[mongman]

hmm, well I have eaten quite a wack of (assumed) lsd in the past and I can't realy say I have had a "good trip" or a "bad trip" I have had trips and then I have had trips.... some have been very introspective and yet enlightening and enjoyable. Then there has been others that have been the extact oposite. Then of even more interest is that most of my experiences include a little mix of both introspection and extroversion........
I don't think this is an easy subject to arive at a definative answer with. It all revolves around questions about the human mind that have yet to be answered......