LSA: Making equally potent, but smaller hits.

[Zodiakk]

"I have already tried to ask this in the psychedelics thread, but I didn't ask properly enough, and those who have seen the thread will obviously not come back and see if I completely changed it.

Anyways, my goal is to make a smaller, but equally potent bit of LSA extract.
So, obviously, I want to do multiple CWE's, but with the same liquid. Like use 3 grams of ground MG seeds in 5 oz of water, put it on my large flat back massager for a few hours, let it sit in the refridgerator overnight, filter out the mush, then repeat until I have used ~10 grams of LSA. Then start a new batch, until I have made 11 'hits'.

I have used LSA for about a year before ever even coming to bluelight, but I would eat HBWR seeds to achieve my high. I want to make these 'hits' so strong because I am going to a party soon, and I know I don't have to explain how irritating it is when people act too snobby for what YOU brought. Ie "I am too good to drink a bottle of asswater."

Thanks in advance for your patience and your help. " is what my pet ogre said.

 

[Zodiakk]

Bump desperation?

 

[The Chemist]

my pet ogre

don't be so daft, everyone knows that it's you.

anyhow, you could just allow the water to evaporate, which should leave you with the LSA, in a gummy consistancy which you can then place in capsules.

 

[greenmeanies]

the problem with that plan is, after a certain point you are no longer extracting LSAs from the seeds into the liquid, but actually infusing the fresh seeds with LSAs that you have previously gotten into the liquid.

There is a reason chemists do three extractions with fresh solvent--- to get all of the product out!

Proper concentration of LSAs requires air-free glassware (nitrogen atmosphere). I don't remember where exactly I saw it, but the general idea is an acid/base extraction using H2O/tartaric acid for the acidic phase, and ammonia/DCM for the basic phase. Theoretically the product is pure white crystalline LSA-tartrate (relatively stable like LSD-tartrate) or pure yellow oily LSA freebase (decomposes quickly in heat/light/air)

1. extract seeds 3x with acidic H2O, decant and filter.
2. basify the aqueous extract with ammonia, extract with dichloromethane.
3. extract the dichloromethane with acidic H2O.
4. repeat steps 2&3 as needed.
after step 3 you should have a relatively pure product, but it might not crystallize white until you clean it with the additional base/acid steps.
5. follow the method from tihkal#26 for making the solid tartrate salt of your freebase product from MeOH/Et2O.

remember that LSAs are unstable in the presence of oxidisers and UV light.

 

[Zodiakk]

Holy shit... Okay, let me hit up Google Define for a minute, you amazing genius, you. :D

EDIT: Okay, so I cannot get dichloromethane for less than $25 per liter. Any cheap alternatives? I am extracting 112 grams

 

[Zodiakk]

Well I do not need a dry product, merely need less liquid. Maybe 2 or 3 ounces of liquid per 300 seeds.

 

[Sega420]

why not just eat em? would make the whole process easier...

nobody will stick up their nose to you for eating seeds when they see you're tripping face.
they will most likely end up wanting the seeds too!

 

[Mr. White]

An acid base extraction is the best way to go, just evaporating a CWE wont give you just the LSAs, it'll give you anything else thats water soluble.

You dont need to do them in small batches, do all 112 grams at once.

The general method for an A/B is this:

1. Extract with acidic dH20
2. make basic
3. Extract with an organic solvent (eg DCM, i'm not sure which solvent is ideal for Lysergamides though) 2-3 time
4. Extract organic layer with acidic dH20
5. Evaporate final acidic dH20 layer to yield you're product
6. Repeat 1-6 three or more times.

This is the general idea, you'll need to find specifics like the best acid, base, organic solvent to use.
This is made harder by how fragile LSAs can be. You wont want you're final product exposed to heat, light or oxygen, probably more trouble than its worth IMO

If this sounds all too hard for you, it likely is, especially with something like LSAs. If i were you i'd just eat them. If people are going to look down on you for it, fuck 'em. Don't let other people control what you do.

 

[Sega420]

if people are going to look down on you for it, fuck 'em.

:d .

 

[Zodiakk]

Thank you for explaining a basic extraction. lol.
Screw it, I will just try. Although greenmeanies knows what I am saying. He knows his shit

 

[greenmeanies]

i am pretty sure DCM is the only viable nonpolar solvent for this case. lysergamides are not very soluble in aliphatic hydrocarbons (naptha, heptane), aromatic hydrocarbons (toluene, xylene) or even ether. DCM is a terrific one and if you can find it pure, i say it's a worthwhile investment.

ammonia is the base you want to use, because if you use NaOH you'll just hydrolyze the lysergamide back into the inactive lysergic acid.

 

[McTwist]

Can't you just use a measured dose of everclear or some higher proof alcohol? Soak 112g in about 200 - 230 mL (about a cup) of alcohol for a few days. I don't feel like doing my math but it's not that hard to figure out. A drop should be anywhere from 1 - 2g's. I've never used morning glories though so I don't know how large a 1/4 pound of powdered seeds looks like. So if one cup isn't enough, just use more and then evaporate the alcohol down to a certain amount (after you strained your seed mush out) so that one mL = 100 seeds (or however strong you wish to make).

ya dig?

 

[greenmeanies]

yeah i know it sounds great in theory, but that much seed matter is going to simply absorb all that solvent and make a big alcoholic seed-cake slurry.

and once again, you cannot even assume any extraction is going on until you use several volumes of fresh solvent!

and evaporation of solvent has NEVER reliably worked for morning glory extraction due to the instability to heat light and oxygen!

either do "extraction" correctly with proper solvents and proper technique, or just go low-tech and chew the damn things.

 

[adrian89987]

or do simple lemon juice extraction and drink a buncha liquids. People have gotten good results doing one extraction over like a weeklong period.

 

[Zodiakk]

Okay, so would a -water:seed powder- ratio of -1:1- work?
I don't mean to get you testy greenie.

 

[greenmeanies]

1:1 by weight, volume, or molarity?

ironically enough, most of the 'science' we are concerned with is actually fine art and requires finesse and adaptation to the situation.

you want enough liquid so you can actually remove the portion above the seeds. remember that the seeds will swell up as they absorb moisture, so perhaps 1:1 by volume is what you're looking for.

suppose you put X grams of finely powdered morning glory seed into a large glass jar. mark the level of the seeds on the outside of the glass with a grease pen. now add distilled water to a level that is twice the level of the mark.

after shaking and letting sit for a while, the seeds will be higher than the original mark but (hopefully) there will be a layer of non-cloudy water for you to remove via pipette. save this layer in a fresh container in the fridge, and add more distilled water to the original "double" level. if the seeds expand to twice their size (leaving no free water for you to remove), then you will have to use more solvent.

to be sure you got most (90% or so) of the alkaloids, you may want to add a small amount of acid (ascorbic, citric, tartaric, fumaric are all good; avoid acetic for the smell ) and be sure to perform three or four extractions.

at this point you have four non-small water extractions combined in one clean jar with no seed mush. you can simply drink this as is, or get complicated with an acid/base technique. this is where your ammonia (do not use janitorial ammonia, as it has soap in it and you will not get a clean separation in the next step) comes in, and you probably want to be working in a darkroom under an inert atmosphere.

add ammonia to your water extract until you can see cloudiness that does not disappear with stirring. this is your freebase lysergamides falling out of aqueous solution. add a volume of dichloromethane and note that DCM is heavier than water (unlike most aqueous/organic extractions where the aliphatic layer is lighter than water).

agitate the basic water/DCM combination gently with venting, then separate the two layers and save the DCM for later. as before, you should do at least three extractions with fresh solvent and combine them together.

at this point you can use a vacuum apparatus to evaporate all the DCM and you will be left with crude freebase lysergamides which should be a yellow oil, sensitive to heat light and air.