• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist

Love Opiates...life-long love affair?

You're suggesting someone use, in a lifelong setup, a mu- agonistic, SNRI compound "with periodic breaks to maintain effectiveness"? Sorry but w/ statements like that and your specific opioid usage, I really don't think you're grasping "opioid addiction" nearly as much as you could be :/
(and they are absolutely not gentle on the body. Perhaps compared to other things, but withdrawals are part of opioid usage and they're horrendous physically - even worse mentally. Further, they *completely* re-wire NMDA/glutamate receptors/sensitivity in the brain, essentially "creating" a "disease" of addiction. To call that gentle, I have to presume you've never met many addicts. I won't even begin with needles, associated crime, suicide, etc., as you'll just say they're not the compound itself. While you'd be right, statements about opioids being safe/gentle/etc are incredibly misleading/dangerous)
 
The only thing I strongly disagree with is the thing about benzos. Going from opiates to benzos is NOT realistic, as benzos have the worst withdrawls of any substance and thus are incredibly addicting as well.

I did just fine when I came off my benzos. I think everyone 's body react to medication in different ways. I can't smoke herb, it actually make me vomit, which the complete opposite of one of its main uses. So they are like shoes...got find what fits for you.

In my opinion, I firmly believe that the reason "most" recoved addicts slip is because they have not dealt with their emotional issues. They get frustrated because they don't know how to process these feelings and they then fall back into the pattern that comes second nature to them. Learning coping skills is a critical step in recovery.

BTW... all of this is just opinions. I am not providing any professional advice or direction for medical, psychological or detox issues. Always talk to your doctor before starting or stoping any medications. Some medications can cause seizures if you abruptly stop taking it.
 
TINK, before I start my reply, I'll say I do agree w/ you for the most part. This post is largely correcting/opinions on some of the finer points from my experiences/studies.

You doing fine coming off benzos is rare. Most have issue with it, even if not using recreationally (as a general rule, it's fair enough to assume most on these boards use recreationally, at least a little, even if in conjunction with proper therapy).
Cyrax is right and wrong. Going from opiates to benzos is a good idea for some, if you can swap your heroin addiction for a 1mg/day xanax addiction, that's a good idea. If you're trying to kick a year-long, 10-40mg oxy habit, I'd heavily advise against starting benzo's, you'll likely find them to be a similar issue to opioids re tolerance, addiction, and withdrawals.

In regards to why most people slip back into a previous addiction, in the simplest terms, it's because of the exact same reasons they fell into their first addiction. This is a situation that varies by individual, however, I disagree with your "dealing with emotional issues" as the central theme of addiction. First, the chemicals themselves are, naturally, the "root issue" of addiction by the very nature of the situation - without the chemicals, no addiction can exist. Now, for someone who's gotten off of the chemical of their choice, there's many things that can cause relapse. However, it seems by far that the two biggest factors are simply wanting back on the drug (which can definitely be caused by un-handled emotional issues, but can just as easily be caused by a desire to be high, by obsessive behaviors, or even situationally, ie everyone they know does it and it just "makes sense" to use again in their eyes), and secondly, and I feel this can be far bigger a factor for many(most?) addicts - they don't know a life outside of drugs.
See, once you've gotten to the point of real addiction, your life is changed. I don't mean that in the physical sense, or even necessarily the mental sense (though both are absolutely factors), rather I'm referring to "life-situation". When one wanders down the path that ends with addiction, they've typically done some/most/all of the following: replaced their real friends with people who use/sell; wasted years getting/using/selling, and thus destroyed their resume (ability to move onto something else); burnt through their money and possessions (ability to move onto something else); burnt bridges with family (ability to move onto something else); <sometimes> got into legal issues (ability to move onto something else).
Unfortunately, the very circumstances that one finds themselves in once addicted make recovery extremely hard if they aren't helped. Once you "live the life" for a long enough time, finding a new path can be so hard that it seems impossible. One may detox, and be 6mo clean, but if they're still living in the same area, around the same people, not able to make progress in a different area, well, going back to the old path just happens.
(I know that all too well - I'm currently clean(enough, wouldn't say 100% if I so much as drank coffee, I'm really about absolutes lol), and while I've been able to do a majority of what I had to in regards to distancing myself from those who used in addictive manners (which the majority of the people I knew did, when I was addicted), and as far as work towards "normal" life, so to speak, it's absolutely a very tough path to get onto the "right" track. Given how hard it is, many cannot do it - and that's BEFORE you factor in the physical-dependency/chemical-addiction aspects, once you put those in there, for many/most it becomes a situation of helplessness, where they really don't believe they can get back to any kind of "real" life, and when that's compounded with the ability to use their fav drug again, it's pretty much over at that point :/
Drug addiction treatment/recovery is an area that needs HUGE amounts of progress. It's really sad how little help there is for people who end up relapsing when they very well could've gone on to be good, productive members of society :(
 
^good point but death from alprazolam or other benzodiazepine withdrawal is pretty rare... I've only heard of a couple cases and the one report I saw on here, the woman (Australian) was taking over 40mg alprazolam a day I believe.

In the ER, they had no idea why she was ill and didn't know about her benzo use so they could've prevented the death.
 
You should try suboxone if you insist on maintaining your habit. It has been a godsend for me, has let me forget about my addiction and focus on my life.

Since your tolerance is still so slow(believe me it is) you should get really good effects from low dose subs. Start as low as you can and keep it there(im talking about .1 to .2 mg doses at a time).

I had a 300 mg of OC/day habit and i detoxed with 20mg naltrexone, waited 1 day. then started at 4mg per day and QUICKLY tapered from there down to 1mg. now i've been maintaining on 1 mg of bupe perday, .5 in the morning and .5 in the evening, and have been working down from there.

I used to use naltrexone back in the day to rapid detox all the time, like if I was broke and ran out of shit on friday but had to work on monday, I would take naltrexone on friday night and feel fine by sunday/monday. Where if I hadn't used the naltrexone I'd still be feeling shitty for another week.

I also do LDN(low dose naltrexone) at night, 3mg of naltrexone in liquid solution, orally. I feel this really helps work against tolerance/addiction, plus side effects of bupe. Naltrexone will kick bupe off the kappa receptors, and while bupe wins out on the mu, I think the naltrexone is blocking some of the mu-active metabolites of the bupe, and I feel that by the time I dose my LDN(10pm) there are sites open for it to antagonize, sometimes I will feel a little mild hot/cold sweaty achy withdraw type feelings for bout an hour after dosing the LDN, not usually though. And I take DLPA in the morning, and sometimes tyrosine when i want more energy. I take L-theanine along with my naltrexone at night.

Right now i turned my bupe into a nasal spray that doses .05mg per spray, this is good because even if i want to do more it just drains and goes into my belly where it doesn't work. I use a few sprays in the morning then dose as needed throughout the day(usually just a couple more sprays in the evening)

And when I want to feel that blanket of warmth/noddy, i take 30mg dxm orally, then load up an oral syringe with 25mg promethazine, 20mg valium, and 2mg of bupe and dose rectally with a few mg of water. When I do this I stuff a cotton in the bottom of the syringe, before pouring in the solution, to catch the filler, used a micron filter to make the nasal spray. and I try to skip a day here and there when i can(usually the bupe from the day before keeps bad wd away most the next day) IMO for recreational use rectal dosing is the best way to take bupe, the nasal spray is great for low dosing though

been on bupe for 4 months now, except for a 9 month hiatus about 3 years ago where I was totally clean, this is the longest i've been "sobre" for 5 years. and sadly enough, these have probably been the best, most productive, and happiest 4 months I've had since becoming addicted to opiates. I feel completely "normal" and motivated, not like im on drugs. I really feel like they have free'd me to be the best me I can be, without having to worry about drug-seeking or deal with the depression that comes with sobriety.

had only used bupe a couple times before this when a friend gave them to me, and those were real suboxone.

I get mine from an IOP in 2 mg pills. no naloxone, and when i skip days a take a valium and some strong coffee(otherwise i avoid habitual use of benzos or caffeine)
and I smoke/vape/eat pot at least once everyday, pothead 4 life, usually low doses though, maybe 1 night out of every week i get totally baked and go to town in the kitchen with the munchies lol.

And I take psyllium husk fiber daily to help with constipation from constant opioid use. and rectal dose naltrexone after taking a day off bupe if it gets bad(like if ive been eating WAY to much bad food and make it worse). I don't know if this is a problem for everyone else or not, I had constipation problems before/off opiates also, so it might just be me, I don't know how I could take bupe everyday without my fiber. Plus im a piscaterian, and right now im on a "diet" or more a rule where I eat one salad as a meal per day, and a side salad with every other meal(besides breakfast, strictly yogurt smoothies). Since being on bupe ive had more time to take care of myself and exercise and make healthy food. I'm 6'1 and have gone from 215 to 185.
 
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(BEFORE I even finish reading Kewlwip's post, I must say, THIS!!! If you are dead-set on being on a mu-opioid agonist/partial-agonist for life, bupe or suboxone (which is bupe+naloxone) is probably one of your best choices. Anything with the absurd affinity, yet only moderate agonism (partial agonism, actually - "low intrinsic value"), denotes a smarter opioid agonist, especially if it has naloxone (an antagonist) to deter people shooting it*)

/*OFF-topic: While I understand the reasons why pharm companies would want to - however evil you may feel this is - want to have such easily-abused, heroin-comparable products such as "instant release 30mg OXY", it amuses me to no end seeing the thinly veiled "attempts at stopping abuse". LO-fucking-L! Make the pills too large to easily snort/shoot large amounts, add gums/binders/etc that practically prohibit any extractions/CWE's/distorting the TR-mechanism, and there'd be no problems in the 1st place. I honestly wonder what the tone in the room was when they introduced oxyContin. "Well, see, unlike pure oxycodone tablets, these have to be crushed up 1st. Sure, people crush up pure oxycodone tablets anyway, and while that would, in theory, apply the exact same way to these pills, we believe the TR mechanism will magically ward off such behavior. Given this TR mechanism, we would like to produce 160mg tablets."
"well, seems there's a mechanism in place that will definitely make it different in practice than a pure oxycodone pill, so, APPROVAL GRANTED"
lol, "Oxy, the new, pharmaceutically-enhanced heroin!"
 
Kewlwip - seems you're kicking ass and taking names so far, good luck with the future.
I hope everybody reading this thread takes a second to recognize that most anyone who has to use opiates for life does not enjoy doing so. There is a massive difference between physical tolerance and addiction. However, with opiates, many who find physical tolerance go onto addiction. Once you have an opioid addiction, your life will NEVER be the same, ever.
/end PSA ;-P
 
i think this is possible as long as you have a never ending supply. but i do also think that after a while you won't feel the effects any more and want to take more. and like others have said if for some reason you can't get them you will get sick. i would taper off now while you still have access to them. but that said my rattie girl had a 10 year H addiction and still had somewhat of a happy life (she thinks lol). actually she spent most of that time sleeping... so YMMV. :D
 
During my current, painful and nasty detox from methadone in preparation for a move to a rural county, I received delightful news: apparently, a supply line has re-formed from the Middle East down to me. Unless I hear some crushing news tomorrow (that my info is wrong), I can move to the lovely emerald green and water-filled area between the ocean and mountains with my preferred link to Her intact. I joyfully anticipate long nights of pleasure and soft days exploring this very special place with Her love in my heart.
My previous life with Opium crashed and burned due to my unrestrained use in a period of effortless abundance. Drowning in Her every day slowly shrank my life until I lived very much like Tolkien's Gollum. As this new life with Her begins, I want to treat Her with the respect She deserves and to treat myself with respect. When I kayak, I respect the potential destructive power of a fast-flowing river, tides, and ocean waves. With sure knowledge and respect of Opium's awesome power, I will try to ride the river of life with Her.
 
I've been on & off them 4 years now, initially for occasional pain relief after surgery on a cyst, then i discovered they take care of my insomnia, mild anxiety, & liking for recreational drugs too.

Since then i've tried several types of narcotics & even after honeymoon phases where i strayed from using for pain, to recreation, then ultimately hitting a point where i felt i need to get off them, still after 3 month periods of abstinence I'll have this longing for an Opiate in my blood.

Lifelong love affair, perhaps, they're cheeky little drugs that have extraordinary highs & wretched lows. Anybody can learn to live without them but in my mind sister morphine is a love i'll never forget.
 
Detoxing from methadone, I want to resume my life w/ Opium

High dose methadone allowed me to slowly rebuild my life after relinquishing almost all aspects of normal life in favor of acquiring/using Opium. As the methadone leaves my body, cravings for and euphoric recollections of the opiate high steadily increase. The dose of methadone is now too low to block the euphoria of Opium and I watch myself slipping again into frequent use.
I switch to Suboxone soon due to an upcoming move to a rural area where methadone is unavailable; intellectually, I know that I should maintain on Suboxone. However, I hate the thought of consuming naloxone every day -- I want my body open to Opium. Giving myself over to Her could tear down everything that I've worked so hard to build; trying to live without Her seems bleak and achingly sad. Whether I resist Her seductive undertow or submerge myself in her dark love, She will be with me forever.
 
seems more fitting for TDS, but I'll just say that you sound like you're deciding it's not over and you'll get back on, honestly. And suboxone > methadone IMO, also if you were true to your mdone program the naloxone shouldn't really bother you. I'm unsure what you mean by suboxone being MORE available than methadone, thought it was the other way around but guess not..never been around the northwest much :/
/also unsure how you're so addicted to opium, well, *anywhere* in the US that it became a methadone/suboxone/MMT thing, never heard of that, even anecdotally (in the US).
best of luck, def check out TDS for some advice b4 you change your plan here ;P
 
Can you please explain what TDS is?

One can fill a Suboxone scrip at a local pharmacy, making it a convenient option for those living in rural areas.
 
I think certain opiates are better utilized in the long-term than others. Buprenorphine is a good example of an opiate that could be taken for a long period of time. In SE Asia, people have been using kratom leaf for a very long time and often take daily. This isn't to say that these drugs have no bad effects on the body, but people do successfully use them in their daily life for years.
 
Can you please explain what TDS is?

One can fill a Suboxone scrip at a local pharmacy, making it a convenient option for those living in rural areas.

TDS=The dark side, a subforum on these boards. Very useful for many in your position (considering relapse, which I'm assuming but imagine I'm pretty spot-on).

And the pharmacies will have it, or should lol, the q is whether dr.'s there are scribing it. Google buprenorphine-providers or some shit, you'll find some site that's a pro-bupe-therapy lobby/group w/ info, I wouldn't take their info at face value (seems like just a trade group), but it has links/maps of dr.'s (not all dr.'s can scribe suboxone, I mean the test to take on 30 patients is like 8hrs, but many dr.'s just don't do it, sadly)
 
I think certain opiates are better utilized in the long-term than others. Buprenorphine is a good example of an opiate that could be taken for a long period of time. In SE Asia, people have been using kratom leaf for a very long time and often take daily. This isn't to say that these drugs have no bad effects on the body, but people do successfully use them in their daily life for years.

Codeine is similar.
 
i believe that u can have a productive, moral, loving life on opiates. i would recommend using suboxone to lower tolerance and to switch opiates (faulty cross tolerance).

Just think of alcohol and tobacco, anti-psychotics, SSRI, adhd meds- because it is socially acceptable, it is ok.

it is up to the person to want to stop.



*********** agree. totally. ********************

If you keep taking them regularly they will stop working and you'll need to take them just to feel normal. To answer your question: Lets say I had unlimited access to my drug of choice and I stayed at the same dosage and I was in no danger of being discovered or busted or whatever...how long can I do this for? You can do it for as long as you like but in a few months the drug will stop working and you will get withdrawals when you try to stop. You'll probably experiment with increasing the dose first before you give up though (despite what you say now), the addiction will get deeper, the withdrawals worse. If you happen to meet someone who can supply you with stronger opiates you may decide to try them, getting more addicted etc. etc. . Every addict whose life is in shit started off like you. In fact everyone who is thinking like you are now (I've found this opiate, my life is sorted) goes on to become hopelessly addicted. You are at the start of a lifechanging addiction, it is inevitable that you will have a serious addiction, noone can stop you now you're walking straight into hell and you are not going to stop, mark my words.

Holy shit, say it straighter. Wow. All true. back and forth for some. Dancing with fire for a while, ya gotta break it up sometimes. me, I do it because the land is dry, but it helps I guess. Still take sub between . Every time.

Barth Vader

If you can accept that over time the "high" will diminish, and you can be disciplined in terms of staying at a moderate dose, then I absolutely think its possible to have it not end in a nightmare. That said, there are MANY people who have tried this, and had the best of intentions, only to end up in the pits of addiction.
.-DG

Agreed. Acceptance is the toughest part of reality.

I loves me some opiates, do boy

The only thing I strongly disagree with is the thing about benzos. Going from opiates to benzos is NOT realistic, as benzos have the worst withdrawls of any substance and thus are incredibly addicting as well.

Benzo, for real cold turkey, is THE WORST withdrawal you ever wanna go thru twice, sir. Ever. Pure Living HELL. You can't imagine how benzo withdrawal pisses on opiate withdrawal, i swore twice I'd never do that again. but i still take some alprazolam when i want to. Not every day. Roxi on the other hand, bad. 12 at a time, to make sure the ten really works? 84 in three days? But, I digress.


Merged your four posts in a row. Use the "edit" button or "multiquote" feature in the future. :P Thanks, AP
 
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