first off, sorry for the stupid title. Quick summary: I'm in my mid-40s, happily married for 15 years, 3 children, semi-successfully employed...secretly addicted to opiates. I've experimented with many types, and I've happily settled on Tramadol. I know its not a fave on these boards and considered to be pretty weak sauce, but I'm one of the lucky few that it REALLY works for. I do 400mgs a day and it just flat out works...makes me happy, warm, content, everything you want and need from a drug. The side-effects are basically slow peeing and fewer orgasms - sex drive is fine. Although I have A LOT OF QUESTIONS that I would like to ask the folks on these boards, here is my biggest: CAN YOU HAVE A SUCCESSFUL, HAPPY, HEALTHY LIFE AS AN ADDICT? Lets say I had unlimited access to my drug of choice and I stayed at the same dosage and I was in no danger of being discovered or busted or whatever...how long can I do this for? Am I doing physical damage to myself? Does addiction always end in some sort of tragedy or getting clean? I LOVE MY DRUGS...I am a very anxious person and being high makes me "normal." And let me clarify...I love opiates. Anyway...sorry if all of this is overly basic stuff for the regulars on these boards, I just feel the need to hear from people in the same boat as me...thanks.
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H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist
Love Opiates...life-long love affair?
- Thread starter greenwall
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dokomo
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Here's the kicker - eventually you will need a higher dose of tramadol than 400mg, and as you probably know, going over 400mg in 24hrs can cause serious (read:life threatening) seizures. Addiction is always a problem because it will always require an escalation of the substance as tolerance builds. In your case, you've hit the ceiling with tramadol.
Tramadol is interesting because in addition to painkilling properties, it has SNRI activity as well, making it effective for treating anxiety, phobias, etc in some people.
Bottom line: If you can ONLY take 400mg within a 24 hour period forever (and no additional drugs) you would be (mostly) fine. Otherwise, I'd recommend detoxing from Tramadol and seeing a doctor to get a specific SNRI medication prescribed to help you.
Tramadol is interesting because in addition to painkilling properties, it has SNRI activity as well, making it effective for treating anxiety, phobias, etc in some people.
Bottom line: If you can ONLY take 400mg within a 24 hour period forever (and no additional drugs) you would be (mostly) fine. Otherwise, I'd recommend detoxing from Tramadol and seeing a doctor to get a specific SNRI medication prescribed to help you.
i believe that u can have a productive, moral, loving life on opiates. i would recommend using suboxone to lower tolerance and to switch opiates (faulty cross tolerance).
Just think of alcohol and tobacco, anti-psychotics, SSRI, adhd meds- because it is socially acceptable, it is ok.
it is up to the person to want to stop.
Just think of alcohol and tobacco, anti-psychotics, SSRI, adhd meds- because it is socially acceptable, it is ok.
it is up to the person to want to stop.
ranunky
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If you keep taking them regularly they will stop working and you'll need to take them just to feel normal. To answer your question: Lets say I had unlimited access to my drug of choice and I stayed at the same dosage and I was in no danger of being discovered or busted or whatever...how long can I do this for? You can do it for as long as you like but in a few months the drug will stop working and you will get withdrawals when you try to stop. You'll probably experiment with increasing the dose first before you give up though (despite what you say now), the addiction will get deeper, the withdrawals worse. If you happen to meet someone who can supply you with stronger opiates you may decide to try them, getting more addicted etc. etc. . Every addict whose life is in shit started off like you. In fact everyone who is thinking like you are now (I've found this opiate, my life is sorted) goes on to become hopelessly addicted. You are at the start of a lifechanging addiction, it is inevitable that you will have a serious addiction, noone can stop you now you're walking straight into hell and you are not going to stop, mark my words.
Binge Artist
Bluelighter
I believe the notion of living a normal, happy life on opiate medication is akin to the notion of living a normal, happy life on AIDS medication.
askaboutme
Bluelighter
you're only poppin trams now but you are doing it everyday.
wait till you're shooting diesel 5 times a day just to stave off sickness.
at that point you will wish that you never continued with the trams.
that won't necessarily happen but no one thinks they will ever get there.
proceed with caution my friend...
wait till you're shooting diesel 5 times a day just to stave off sickness.
at that point you will wish that you never continued with the trams.
that won't necessarily happen but no one thinks they will ever get there.
proceed with caution my friend...
man, I love this website...thanks for the responses. Has anyone found an SSRI that compares to opiates (more specifically, tramadol)? I'd be interested in researching that question myself, I'm just not sure where to start. Proceed with caution is the best advice given...and that's what I intend to use BL for...and hopefully I can contribute something in return.
dokomo
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You're looking for SNRIs(Serotonin–norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors.) The main ones are venlafaxine and duloxetine (brand names Effexor and Cymbalta.)
They do wonders for some people (I have an aunt who takes a massive amount of venlafaxine daily, but it has literally saved her life and allowed her to be happy) and for others, they don't work and can have side effects. I'd definitely suggest talking to your doctor about trying them though, as they act in a similar way to tramadol without the mu opioid receptor stimulation.
daddysgone
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Im going to part company from the other responders here and say that I believe it is possible to live a happy productive life on opiates. Note that I said it was POSSIBLE...and not that it normally works out this way.
First off, there are many chronic pain patients who must take opiates daily to control their pain, and many are able to live happy fulfilling lives.
I think that you really run into problems when you begin increasing your dosage in order to chase that elusive high. If you can accept that over time the "high" will diminish, and you can be disciplined in terms of staying at a moderate dose, then I absolutely think its possible to have it not end in a nightmare. That said, there are MANY people who have tried this, and had the best of intentions, only to end up in the pits of addiction.
It really is a tightrope. Believe me, I completely understand the appeal of living life on a daily dose of opiates. Unfortunately all too often it ends in tragedy.-DG
First off, there are many chronic pain patients who must take opiates daily to control their pain, and many are able to live happy fulfilling lives.
I think that you really run into problems when you begin increasing your dosage in order to chase that elusive high. If you can accept that over time the "high" will diminish, and you can be disciplined in terms of staying at a moderate dose, then I absolutely think its possible to have it not end in a nightmare. That said, there are MANY people who have tried this, and had the best of intentions, only to end up in the pits of addiction.
It really is a tightrope. Believe me, I completely understand the appeal of living life on a daily dose of opiates. Unfortunately all too often it ends in tragedy.-DG
Sweetsomniferum
Greenlighter
Lady Opium's love can stay with you without the drug
I love Opium without reservation. For over 20 years, She has provided inspiration,
respite, and untold hours of easy, colorful fantasy. When I realized that my love for Her eclipsed everything else in my life I went on methadone. Now, in order to travel freely, I am detoxing from 160mgs of methadone at the rate of 2mgs/day.
I can feel my body changing, which sometimes makes me feel sad and scared. However, I "talk" to Lady Opium in my head, assuring Her that I love Her as much as ever and will never leave Her. I ask for Her help with the detox; methadone keeps me tied to a dead-end job and travel provides adventure and inspiration, making me a better partner for Her when we are together again.
This detox is much gentler than I imagined. By seeking Her help (without using the drug), I feel close to Her instead of feeling torn from Her.
I love Opium without reservation. For over 20 years, She has provided inspiration,
respite, and untold hours of easy, colorful fantasy. When I realized that my love for Her eclipsed everything else in my life I went on methadone. Now, in order to travel freely, I am detoxing from 160mgs of methadone at the rate of 2mgs/day.
I can feel my body changing, which sometimes makes me feel sad and scared. However, I "talk" to Lady Opium in my head, assuring Her that I love Her as much as ever and will never leave Her. I ask for Her help with the detox; methadone keeps me tied to a dead-end job and travel provides adventure and inspiration, making me a better partner for Her when we are together again.
This detox is much gentler than I imagined. By seeking Her help (without using the drug), I feel close to Her instead of feeling torn from Her.
TINK
Bluelighter
I have chronic pain and have been opiate free for a little over 4 years after an 8 year addiction. I have had chronic pain for over 15 years. I do not believe that anyone can live a "normal" life while taking opiates. These medications are not meant for long term use. Our bodies are not designed for that. The endorphines your body creates is 20 times more stronger than morphine. The key is, which chronic pain, finding how to create those endorphines. In addition, as was stated previously, you will get a tolerance. You will have to up the dose and then up it and then up it. You may also end up becoming opioid-induced hyperalgesia.
Everyone has different need and their bodies react differently to everything. Cymbalta was sheer torture for me. The side effects were unbearable.
I think you need to find out why you take the opiates. Why are you chasing that high? Does it have to be opiates or can you get the same feeling from let say benzos? Are you really happy or are you telling yourself you are happy?
Everyone has different need and their bodies react differently to everything. Cymbalta was sheer torture for me. The side effects were unbearable.
I think you need to find out why you take the opiates. Why are you chasing that high? Does it have to be opiates or can you get the same feeling from let say benzos? Are you really happy or are you telling yourself you are happy?
The only thing I strongly disagree with is the thing about benzos. Going from opiates to benzos is NOT realistic, as benzos have the worst withdrawls of any substance and thus are incredibly addicting as well.
Material541
Bluelighter
I have been asking myself this exact same question. Since I started tramadol in September, I have been a much more happier, less anxious person overall. I initially started taking about 200-300mg a day every 3 or 4 days but that very quickly spiraled out of control and I was up to about 500mg per day by late December.
I successfully weaned myself down to nothing over 2 weeks but found myself being very unhappy and anxious, exactly as I did before I started taking the tramadol. I do not attribute this to withdrawal effects -- I have unfortunately felt that way for a very, very long time.
I decided to go back on tramadol in a much more careful manner. I take it as needed until 400mg is needed to give a good effect, and then I taper down by 50mg every day until I get to 100mg. Then I stay there for a while, as that dose still makes me feel better than 'normal.'
Not sure how wise this is...but I greatly prefer taking this route than taking antidepressants which really seem hit-or-miss and with a ton of side effects.
It is just critically important to resist the urge to get high. I regret to say I still have days when I'll drastically increase my dose, searching for that elusive opiate high.
So yes, I think it is definitely possible. But as other have said, it is a very risky thing to do.
I successfully weaned myself down to nothing over 2 weeks but found myself being very unhappy and anxious, exactly as I did before I started taking the tramadol. I do not attribute this to withdrawal effects -- I have unfortunately felt that way for a very, very long time.
I decided to go back on tramadol in a much more careful manner. I take it as needed until 400mg is needed to give a good effect, and then I taper down by 50mg every day until I get to 100mg. Then I stay there for a while, as that dose still makes me feel better than 'normal.'
Not sure how wise this is...but I greatly prefer taking this route than taking antidepressants which really seem hit-or-miss and with a ton of side effects.
It is just critically important to resist the urge to get high. I regret to say I still have days when I'll drastically increase my dose, searching for that elusive opiate high.
So yes, I think it is definitely possible. But as other have said, it is a very risky thing to do.
The question is can YOU live your life being an addict - being one that 'needs' this external source for inner satisfaction?
Its cool for a while, but I'm sure its already at the back of you mind 'I wish I knew a way to feel like this without pills'. Eventually guilt will set in.
Its cool for a while, but I'm sure its already at the back of you mind 'I wish I knew a way to feel like this without pills'. Eventually guilt will set in.
TheAppleCore
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Well, gee. I guess if wishers had horses, beggars would ride.
SangerRainsford
Bluelighter
I've got mixed thoughts on this subject.
Part of me thinks that, once a big opioid addiction* has built, in some cases, if both availability and price were guaranteed to be solid for the rest of one's life, it'd be easier to stay on than to try and get off**
(*400mg tramadol wouldn't qualify - not knocking it, I'm one of those who can enjoy trammies actually, but it's not comparable to a big oxy habit, and further, is different because it's not just a mu-agonist, but also an SNRI)
(**I say this because, VERY, very sadly/grimly, that's kind of what needs to happen. There's only like 2.5-3% of people who, after getting off of their maintenance opioid, will stay abstinent for even a year. It's almost like once you've gotten a real opioid addiction, it's yours for life :/ )
Part of me thinks that, once a big opioid addiction* has built, in some cases, if both availability and price were guaranteed to be solid for the rest of one's life, it'd be easier to stay on than to try and get off**
(*400mg tramadol wouldn't qualify - not knocking it, I'm one of those who can enjoy trammies actually, but it's not comparable to a big oxy habit, and further, is different because it's not just a mu-agonist, but also an SNRI)
(**I say this because, VERY, very sadly/grimly, that's kind of what needs to happen. There's only like 2.5-3% of people who, after getting off of their maintenance opioid, will stay abstinent for even a year. It's almost like once you've gotten a real opioid addiction, it's yours for life :/ )
Cane2theLeft
Bluelight Crew
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^Right but all that demonstrates is it usually takes people a few slips before they can walk forward steadily.
Overcoming any addiction takes a lot of time and effort and most people try quitting multiple times because they aren't ready or fully committed at first. A lot of people don't realize that despite any single treatment having poor outcomes (if solely measured by 100% abstinence for X amount of time) most people do in fact eventually get sober and move on in their life.
Of course there will be some who are lifelong addicts and some people will die prematurely due to OD, suicide, etc. but when you see figures like 90% of people who go to rehab or utilize 12 step programs relapse, it only represents the short period immediately after trying to quit. If you take the long view, you realize that one way or another, most people who have been addicted to ANY drug do eventually move beyond this.
Opioids are unique among addictive substances in how intense and prolonged the cravings are but overall, MOST people who are opioid addicts do eventually get sober one way or another.
Overcoming any addiction takes a lot of time and effort and most people try quitting multiple times because they aren't ready or fully committed at first. A lot of people don't realize that despite any single treatment having poor outcomes (if solely measured by 100% abstinence for X amount of time) most people do in fact eventually get sober and move on in their life.
Of course there will be some who are lifelong addicts and some people will die prematurely due to OD, suicide, etc. but when you see figures like 90% of people who go to rehab or utilize 12 step programs relapse, it only represents the short period immediately after trying to quit. If you take the long view, you realize that one way or another, most people who have been addicted to ANY drug do eventually move beyond this.
Opioids are unique among addictive substances in how intense and prolonged the cravings are but overall, MOST people who are opioid addicts do eventually get sober one way or another.
SangerRainsford
Bluelighter
I wish it did demonstrate that, but that's not the case 
People going off their maintenance drug, and re-entering rehab, are demonstratably LESS likely to get off if they've relapsed. The more times you relapse, the further your chances of staying off are, not the further towards recovery you are.
I'll admit I would've felt that way a year, even 6mo, ago. After reading up extensively on addiciton/recovery (solely in regards to opioids, they are a different beast than ANY.other.drug in this regard), I've come to wholeheartedly support opioid maintenance (I should mention I am NOT on maintenance myself or anything. My support for maintenance is because of both the severity of opioid w/d's and what commonly happens during them, the absymally low rate of abstinence once off, and the - theoretical - ease with which we, as a species, could keep make opioids obscenely cheap and accessible. Look at carfentanyl (just don't touch it / get it on your skin!)).
You're 100% spot-on re why people fail tho, and you definitely know your stuff in any other thread (even most of your post here), but you're wrong with regards to opioid addiction. The average addict does not get past it. And I'm definitely interested in hearing your reasoning if you want to provide it, and will show the stats/sources I've read to arrive at my conclusions. Everything I've read points to opioids being an obscenely different class than amp's, downers/gaba-drugs, etc, when it comes to addiction/recovery.
I'd definitely like to see your reasoning or source that "MOST" opioid addicts do eventually get clean (yes, this is relevant to my interests
- not a user anymore, and not on a maintenance drug, so I've been in that little slice of "actually off" for a bit now).
People going off their maintenance drug, and re-entering rehab, are demonstratably LESS likely to get off if they've relapsed. The more times you relapse, the further your chances of staying off are, not the further towards recovery you are. I'll admit I would've felt that way a year, even 6mo, ago. After reading up extensively on addiciton/recovery (solely in regards to opioids, they are a different beast than ANY.other.drug in this regard), I've come to wholeheartedly support opioid maintenance (I should mention I am NOT on maintenance myself or anything. My support for maintenance is because of both the severity of opioid w/d's and what commonly happens during them, the absymally low rate of abstinence once off, and the - theoretical - ease with which we, as a species, could keep make opioids obscenely cheap and accessible. Look at carfentanyl (just don't touch it / get it on your skin!)).
You're 100% spot-on re why people fail tho, and you definitely know your stuff in any other thread (even most of your post here), but you're wrong with regards to opioid addiction. The average addict does not get past it. And I'm definitely interested in hearing your reasoning if you want to provide it, and will show the stats/sources I've read to arrive at my conclusions. Everything I've read points to opioids being an obscenely different class than amp's, downers/gaba-drugs, etc, when it comes to addiction/recovery.
I'd definitely like to see your reasoning or source that "MOST" opioid addicts do eventually get clean (yes, this is relevant to my interests
- not a user anymore, and not on a maintenance drug, so I've been in that little slice of "actually off" for a bit now).
Lady Codone
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Opiates are relatively gentle on the body and don't cause chronic damage like alcohol or some other drugs.
The problems begin when one of the following scenarios happen:
1.) You lose access to your source, causing you to graduate to stronger/more expensive opiates (usually from a black market source, which adds a whole other element of danger).
2.) Tolerance builds and you begin taking higher doses for the same effect. Withdrawals are too severe, making it REALLY hard to quit.
3.) You continue at the rate you're going with no problems until one day you get into a car wreck or get hurt on the job, causing you to be tested for drugs. You test positive and end up fired or in jail.
I've been doing poppy tea daily for the past 2.5 years and haven't increased the dose/frequency at all. No health/financial/interpersonal problems to speak of, and I still find tea effective for my anxiety and depression. As long as you treat Tramadol like a once-daily, controlled-dose drug (with periodic breaks to maintain effectiveness), you will be fine health wise. Other aspects of your life are pretty much up in the air.
The problems begin when one of the following scenarios happen:
1.) You lose access to your source, causing you to graduate to stronger/more expensive opiates (usually from a black market source, which adds a whole other element of danger).
2.) Tolerance builds and you begin taking higher doses for the same effect. Withdrawals are too severe, making it REALLY hard to quit.
3.) You continue at the rate you're going with no problems until one day you get into a car wreck or get hurt on the job, causing you to be tested for drugs. You test positive and end up fired or in jail.
I've been doing poppy tea daily for the past 2.5 years and haven't increased the dose/frequency at all. No health/financial/interpersonal problems to speak of, and I still find tea effective for my anxiety and depression. As long as you treat Tramadol like a once-daily, controlled-dose drug (with periodic breaks to maintain effectiveness), you will be fine health wise. Other aspects of your life are pretty much up in the air.
opiates are gentle on the body but not the brain! you are on the trams now ok but what happens when they no longer work ? trust me opiates will rip ur life apart no one is that strong my wife knows what i do i cant even get off of suboxone correctly.its so dam hard but do u wanna loose everything are u well do u have g.a.d. or anxiety in general i have generalized anxiety disorder opiates is only thang that worked for me so i was hooked jus be careful man playing with opiates is like opening pandoras box u never know what ur gonna get !