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Love and The Illusion of Choice

Captain.Heroin

Captain.Heroin

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Nov 3, 2008
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I am going to postulate that I don't believe I have any choice in who I fall in love with. In fact, if I could flip a switch so I didn't love anyone as deeply as I do (in terms of like, when you are having sex with someone 1 on 1 and you are falling for them, not just "ILU MOM"), I would probably flip the switch and then put duct tape over it so I could never put myself through this degree of suffering ever again.

It's not like I was looking to fall in love with anyone in life, and I certainly can't choose to stop having feelings for someone once it's started. I'm sure this is the same for many of us here...but that's why I started the thread. I want to get feedback.

Even after I stopped having sex with someone I used to love a lot, I still loved them for a long time. Even if this person was abusive in several ways.

So I'll ask some questions...

1) would you rather not love anyone? would it make life easier? (again let me reiterate, I'm asking about the type of love you get when you're falling for someone hard)

2) does anyone feel the same way I do? or do you think love is the caustic substance that keeps all of this together?

3) if I can't consciously choose to fall in love with someone, or to stop myself from doing so or to undo it (which I do believe to be quite impossible), do I have no self-control? Do I have no free will? I used to believe in free will and still want to, but experiences like this challenge my perception of free will in what we all consider to be reality.

4) why would anyone (myself included but not just me) love someone that doesn't love them back?

Again, just to reiterate before you all go on a long post, I would always want to love my friends/family, but I don't want to "crush" or "fall super hard" for people I'm sleeping with. I'm wondering if I'm alone here.
 
The only time I really loved someone it was great, but ended up causing several months of pain, but I know for sure now you do get better

Now three years of being single I'm really into a new girl and its the scariest feeling. Because I know there's lots of pain to come at some point in the next few months or maybe years. But I'm gunna go with it
 
I wanted to ask one last question.

5) if I don't want to be in love, and I find myself "falling" or "crushing" for someone, should I stop having sex with them? Would that work, or would it just make me want it even more? I haven't conisdered this option yet but I'm thinking of it now.
 
I see love sort of like I see dope

You love and get fucked, recover, stupidly fall in love again, fall down and get depressed, etc etc

Very similar to the relapse, recovery cycle of dope (or any hard drug I suppose) except obviously, with love most people eventually find a person that works.

It's about self control, being aware of feelings that don't want to be discovered, and knowing yourself. And realizing that you're gonna have to go through a lot of nasty pain to eventually get the happiness

This isn't a direct answer but I hope it helps. Just go with what feels right, don't try to make yourself be or feel a certain way. If you close yourself off you may miss someone you wish you hadn't. If you try too hard to fall in love or make a relationship work, it may end up just ending worse in the long run

Good luck
 
1/ no and b. yes. the feelings of being in love (I believe) are full, emotional soulful feelings that have both beauty and pain, much as a full size fully throbbing, awesome but painful boner does... a feeling that everyone should experience every now and again to let them know that they are alive. That it often raises not so pleasant feelings like jealousy, worry about nonrequittment, I believe provides us with opportunities to develop tools for coping with these feelings

b/would it make life easier (not to fall in love). yes. but life would also be easier if life were all in grayscale, we would have many fewer problems matching the curtains with the flooring, and choosing what coloured car to buy

2) does anyone feel the same way I do? (that I don't believe I have any choice in who I fall in love with. In fact, if I could flip a switch so I didn't love anyone as deeply as I do (in terms of like, when you are having sex with someone 1 on 1 and you are falling for them, not just "ILU MOM"), I would probably flip the switch and then put duct tape over it so I could never put myself through this degree of suffering ever again)
Yes, because the pain when it all turns to shit, seems worse than the massive "come up" when pursuing and trying to win the heart of a lover, for want of a better term.
I consider it similar to a drug bender... coming up, fan fucking tastic! worth every penny and well, insert own superlatives.... when the downside occurs, its the old, "I am never going to drink again" scenario.

3. quote from O' malley's bar (nick cave), just cos its so fucken cool..
."I have no free will," I sang
As I flew about the murder
Mrs. Richard Holmes, she screamed
You really should have heard her

I sang and I laughed, I howled and I wept
I panted like a pup
I blew a hole in Mrs. Richard Holmes
And her husband stupidly stood up

As he screamed, "You are an evil man"
And I paused a while to wonder
If I have no free will then how can I
Be morally culpable, I wonder

I don't know... I think sometimes you can want to fall in love with a person, and focus on the enjoyable bits, and gloss over the less desirable traits, and tell yourself that they are trivial, and (eg) the great sex is worth putting up with being abused (in whatever form that may take).
Similarly, you can harden the heart, or build a wall to keep people out. But, once that wall is burst, you can't stop the flow, which leads on to 4.

4) why would anyone (myself included but not just me) love someone that doesn't love them back? I include myself in this one also. Perhaps the quest for the unattainable? the desire to recompense the energy you have spent on loving this person? The pain of when you think of her with another person?

5) if I don't want to be in love, and I find myself "falling" or "crushing" for someone, should I stop having sex with them? Would that work, or would it just make me want it even more? I haven't considered this option yet but I'm thinking of it now.

I like the rush of falling for someone, and seeing where it will end up... but personal history suggests to me, that it won't really go too far, because I am a fussy bugger, and I wouldn't love someone who is not at least as particular as me in their choice of a life partner, so the pickings are really pretty slim lol. However, I have made some very good friends who were exes, and I spose we did "love" each other for a honeymoon period.. so, personally, I wouldn't stop the sex, nor the rush till it levelled out and you established what sort of plateau you were on

Thank you for asking these questions, in writing my reply, it caused me to examine myself to a degree, and it was interesting, as I have been socialising with a new lady, who I know will probably be nothing but bad overall, but an exciting person to be with, and I feel myself slipping...by bad, I mean she loves drugs probably as much as me, but is hell fun to be with.. here I go again....
 
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What is love anyway? A chemical reaction in the brain? An emotion or feeling that comes and goes?
What happen when the feeling fades away, as sometimes it does? Is it a commitment? Is it worth fighting for? Life gets hard sometimes and feelings come and go.
 
a month ago i would have agreed that love is something out of our control and that it does impinge upon free will
but now i think the purest form of love is wishing the best for that person, so as long as they are aware of your love for them, and they don't return your love, then logically speaking they would be unhappy in a relationship with you, i know im wording this terribly and oversimplifying but thats what ive been seeing in my life recently

1) love is what makes life worth living, thats the last thing we can throw in the can

2) unrequited love and situations where you would be hurting someone you love to pursue a love interest, suck, and those instances can influence a negative association with trusting people with your heart, but i believe love is god in this world, its all powerful and truly the #1 thing of our existence

3) although you may feel that you have no control over your feelings or emotions, they can in fact be mastered to a very manageable extent, and a lot of this is realised by understanding the importance of living in the moment

4) because attraction = love, you see a girl that is beautiful and then you start getting a tingling down your spine and your heart beats faster, those sensations are recognised by our brain as feelings of love, and we make whatever created those sensations in our body the object of our desire, i also get the vibe that some people need a label for the sadness they are experiencing in life, "im depressed because the girl i love is never going to acknowledge me and we will never have a relationship together", once we start recognising sorrow as what it is stripped down of attachment, then it becomes so much easier to see it as what it is, an emotion

Captain.Heroin said:
I wanted to ask one last question.

5) if I don't want to be in love, and I find myself "falling" or "crushing" for someone, should I stop having sex with them? Would that work, or would it just make me want it even more? I haven't conisdered this option yet but I'm thinking of it now.
Click to expand...

from my perspective, you should stop having sex with a person, if you find yourself unable to detach yourself from forming close bonds with them, and if they do not feel love for you

i think sex is very very powerful because when you create a very positive sensation tingling sensation on the body our basic cognitive pattern will be to cling to that feeling (which leads directly to sorrow), and the deep subconscious is directly intertwined with the sensations we feel on our body which are manifest from emotions

if you find yourself unhappy because your not having sex with someone, perhaps its a sign to start focusing on your inner development, our happiness doesn't need to be dictated by others
 
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Captain.Heroin said:
1) would you rather not love anyone? would it make life easier? (again let me reiterate, I'm asking about the type of love you get when you're falling for someone hard)
Click to expand...
I would rather not love anyone anymore, but I recently fell deeply in love and am very happy with my significant other.


2) does anyone feel the same way I do? or do you think love is the caustic substance that keeps all of this together?

love is not the only caustic substance

3) if I can't consciously choose to fall in love with someone, or to stop myself from doing so or to undo it (which I do believe to be quite impossible), do I have no self-control? Do I have no free will? I used to believe in free will and still want to, but experiences like this challenge my perception of free will in what we all consider to be reality.

free will still applies imo; it has to do with the fact you can distnce yourself from people you love, amd your ability to stand your ground.

4) why would anyone (myself included but not just me) love someone that doesn't love them back?

because love is an unstoppable force in life, and will take place whether or not you're ready for it. Love thy neighbors as thyself.

final notes

I wasn't expecting to find the greatest love of my life within 1 week of having given up on ever finding it.
 
Love is the single most powerful, indescribably beautiful feeling on Earth. The beauty of nature is magnified by the mere thought of the other person, with greater euphoria than any of the drugs I've used to block my feeling before.
Sure, love causes pain, but if, even for a second, my love was reciprocated, I'd be a very happy man.
 
No we are purely mechanical and deterministic machines made out of carbons and calciums and collegens instead of steel or plastics and any feeling that we have free will is an illusion. I had no choice in this reply every thought came from my brain state that came from prior thoughts and brain states and environmental factors and nowhere here is there room for nor means of action for free will.

Men are free to do as they will but their will it is not free -
 
1) would you rather not love anyone? would it make life easier? (again let me reiterate, I'm asking about the type of love you get when you're falling for someone hard)
-yes but totally illogical. Life will always be easier on your own, unattached and uncommitted.

2) does anyone feel the same way I do? or do you think love is the caustic substance that keeps all of this together?
- I have and sometimes still do. Love and sex is always complicated but it's fun and feels great so I'm not sure i would always keep that switch on.

3) if I can't consciously choose to fall in love with someone, or to stop myself from doing so or to undo it (which I do believe to be quite impossible), do I have no self-control? Do I have no free will? I used to believe in free will and still want to, but experiences like this challenge my perception of free will in what we all consider to be reality.
- I think you're a hopeless romantic, like me. Most people have no control over who they love it's just what they chose to do with those feelings. Some act on them and some don't. Some people can bottle the feelings up and others can't. I'm the group that can't and won't. I feel totally out of control though especially deeply in love, love chemicals are super similar to the chemicals in drug (I'm shot out so I have no knowledge of the technical terms lol) so think of it more like you're intoxicated and uninhibited when in love and less like you have no free will.

4) why would anyone (myself included but not just me) love someone that doesn't love them back?
- because we have no choice who we love, because the chase is fun, because the idea of them returning your love is exciting...because we're dreamers and like I said earlier, hopeless romantics.
 
5) if I don't want to be in love, and I find myself "falling" or "crushing" for someone, should I stop having sex with them? Would that work, or would it just make me want it even more? I haven't conisdered this option yet but I'm thinking of it now.
- Stop having sex!! ASAP!! You will never lose feelings if you keep fucking. The best bet if you're trying to get over someone is to cut them outta your life completely until you know without a doubt you can speak to them without falling back in love. Basically when you can stand the idea of them dating your best friend..

Love is complicated, messy and beautiful. It's not a choice though and will never be. Don't beat yourself up tho! You're a human being and falling in love is one main thing that separates us from more primal animals. It's what MAKES us human.
 
Thanks for the response.

Prior to posting this thread, I wasn't in a partnership but now am. Things are going incredibly well for me and I realize that being able to love someone who will always be there for me is primarily what I was missing in life and I am thankful to have that now.
 
Well I managed to talk a young lass into my bed last night, or early this morning... she had been leading me on for a week, so was pretty happy when it happened..can't see a relationship happening though, and my daughter would freak out cos she is only 3 years older than her...
Just thought I would tell y'all :)
 
Love.. oh boy. My weakness of all weaknesses.

I think there's a moment where you first realize that you are developing feelings for the other, and I think that's the moment that you want to break away -- if you want to do that. But why would you? Love is beautiful, and worth all the risk every time.

Then again, I'm 25 so what do I know. I'll post back in 45 years if I've made it. ;)
 
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