TDS Loperamide interaction with my Methadone detox

[Kooter]

I have a question that it seems like I cannot find anywhere in the internet. I am tapering off my methadone, not as slow as recommended but 2mgs every 4 days. not too bad I thought. I was down to 40mg for a few months and never went above 60mgs, because I did not want to stay on this stuff very long. So even though I started at 60mgs last December, my plan is still to be done by the end of this month, September. Anyway, I am down pretty low on my dose, about 12mgs and I am having the side effect of diarrhea, joint pain (Not the regular dope sick kind, I just think I am finally feeling the natural pain of being old, I have been a heroin addict for awhile .) Depression and anxiety of course I have, but I am going through a lot of bad shit do to my years of addiction, so nothing I can do about that but just hang in there, life will get better. My question is, kind I take large amounts of loperamide for my diarrhea without screwing up my taper. If I just got to shit all the time so be it, but I would love not to have such a raw ass.

I am tired of being a slave to opiates, unfortunately at the time Methadone was the best option, I couldn't get into a detox, I didn't have a phone to call in everyday and was homeless so I just never got in touch with them when a bed opened up and I couldn't really get caught stealing again, and I was supposed to take drug testing for the state. Anyways, sorry to go on. Life is better now. I have a job, not the best one but it pays ok, I got an apartment, I got a car. I am active (as much as I can in NA, if you know how they feel about methadone you understand.) I lost the love of my life over this addiction. I know everything still seems like shit to me, but I am much further a long than I was a year ago.

 

[neversickanymore]

Hey kooter.. sorry you are feeling this way. Since you have been doing this a long time it looks like I would look into two things.. If you have the money to please get your VITAMIN D checked as this sis often really low and may be the cause of your unexplained pain.. If you dont have the money then I would just add the >vitamin d< and see if some of these symtems disapeare.. when i identified this as a probable cause of symptoms I was having after methadone maintenance and many years of drug use and sure enough when I had it tested it was really low and I had already been taking the max daily recommended dose.. so for me I doubled my dose and checked with my doctor and they said this was fine. It made a world of difference.

Also If you are male I would look into getting your testosterone checked as this is also really common in opiate dependent males and can have a real negative effect on many many things.


Loperamide is a chemical that does in fact cross the blood brain barrier contrary to what allot of people think and it does antagonize the opiate receptors so it may delay of prevent them from shutting down and it is possible to transfer your current physical dependence over to that and then find yourself dependent on these.

The medications I would explore the use of fror detox would be:

>Clonidine< DOSED EVER FOUR HOURS..

one of either
>NEURONTIN< >HERE< >HERE<
OR >Lyrica<

>A BENZO BUT JUST AT NIGHT<
>a nsaid<
>melatonin<
tylenol

Here is another approach to addiction support

>SMART Recovery (Support Group information and discussion)<



congratulations and nice work on looking to get to a better place

 

[Kooter]

Thank you for the info, it does make since that some of my natural hormones would be jacked up. I know my dopamine is extremely low from the usage. (I've looked that up and the clinic doctor warned me bout that. And to boot, I have family history of depression on my mom's side) I will get the vitamins but do not have the insurance to get those tested. When I get back to California (I am in Jackson) I can probably go to a clinic to get tested for those things. I am also planning on to get a "real" job hen i get out there, maybe sales again (who knew that addicts make good salesman, it's just a natural for us to lie, jk). I am going to check out those links hopefully tonight. I know that exercise i supposed to help, but when you feel so shitty all the time, it's very hard to do. I just need to keep in my mind, it will get better. No matter what happens, i now have options where as before my only option was, who to fuck over to get my funds to get my dope. I doubt I will ever live with my wife of 10 years ever again, but than I cannot predict the future and I got to stop dwelling on the future. I got to work on myself right now, focus all my attention on making Kooter be Kooter again (I am thinking of my real name there).

I did look up those links and the funny thing is I had a friend who was epileptic so I know of those drugs, and also the anti-inflammatory. I am hopefully going to see a doctor at the clinic on Monday, he is only in on Mondays, shit it's the only clinic in all of Mississippi. I have a little bit of clonidine left from when I went to an ER to get drugs for withdrawal and I was going to ask for some more. They also gave me hydroxizine which even though it is anti-histamine, it works like a benzo. There is no way anyone is going to give me a benzo these days, I do not have insurance to doctor shop and no doctor will prescribe them to a junky, or exjunky, which I am. I got abscess scars all over my body so there is no way to hide it even if I wanted to. I know benzos are the best for opiate withdrawal if used correctly but I believe doctors do not trust us "scum" to there intellectualism.

Thanks for the info on Loperamide. I thought it would fuck with my taper and thats why I wanted to know. Again, you have been a huge help in steering me to the path about my low levels of vitamin D, which I know is most likely why my knees hurt so damn much. It's not the same as withdrawal pain and trust me, I know the difference. A doctor in the county jail back home told me that its with for the rest of my life and there is nothing they can do about it, but than I am being told this by a nurse who works in a jail and seemed like they didn't take pride in there work.

 

[Kooter]

Also If you are male I would look into getting your testosterone checked as this is also really common in opiate dependent males and can have a real negative effect on many many things.

Is my testosterone ever go back up naturally when I finally stop using the methadone. I only got 20 more days or so and I don't want to sound too shallow but I like sex. When I was using I would bug isn't the right word but the wife and I would have sex often, even though I wouldn't be able to finish most of the time myself, I enjoyed being with her. Unfortunately to be able to finish I would just mix meth with the heroin and that seemed to work but damage I did to my body, which I have no idea the full extent yet, isn't good I bet. I know you are most likely not a professional in this area of study, but I am just curious.

 

[RedRum OG]

if you taper is going rough, i would advise leveling off for a few days before dropping dose again. as you must know lowering your dose can take days to catch up with you. so maybe give it a week before tapering more, 12mg isnt that much.

depends how much loperamide were talking here, some say that if you take a fuckton (60-200mg+) you can feel some classic opioid high type symptoms. but many people doubt this and will cite the fact that loperamide on its own cant cross the BBB. however it seems taking enough will bypass this, maybe not.

i would say no, wont mess with your taper. but i cant be sure, and there is a ton of disagreement around this topic, everyone has their opinion and there are no definite answers out there, its all speculation and personal experience

 

[neversickanymore]

yeah i agree 100% dropping you dose at this rate.. you might as well just take the plunge and jump off.. the half life of methadone is close to 40 hours and then it takes another three or four days for these receptors to cool their jets.. so i dont know who is incharge.. dont get me wrong I am truely not in favor of tappers as I think you just end up with a bunch of days of little misery followed by almost a full detox in the end..

But yes your testosterone will return to normal on its own.. but the symptoms low testosterone cause can make the PAWS so much worse and may even be a huge cause of the paws.

here is bunch on this http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q...=_e4nUpvHLsXYqAGCroHICA&sqi=2&ved=0CEMQgQMwAA


When will Testosterone levels return to pre-opiate use levels?

 

[Kooter]

thank you both for the info. I am told to try leveling out by other people too for a bit but this clinic is pretty screwed up. (I am actually in another state working, trying to stay off of H) I have to have a panel ask the doctor to see me and he only comes once a week so by the time I will see him, I'll be done. I want to just drop off and go through hell for a few days, but I work long hours 6 days a week. So I don't know what to really do to tell you the truth. I just keep plugging along. I am thinking all I am doing is spreading out the withdrawals to be less intense over days, it's still not comfortable but it is better than the 5-7+ days of hell to get off methadone. I always love how in movies they say heroin withdrawal (physical) is 3 days when in reality it peaks in 3 and than you slowly come back from hell, at least every time I quit junk, that is how it felt. Of course most of the time I quit over 3 days I was in jail. Makes it kind of easier, weird.

On a side note, I went to a meeting tonight and was talking to a girl afterwards for awhile and all I can think of is how small her pupils were. Ah, how the junky in me comes out.

 

[Kooter]

I forgot to ad, I did ask to see the doc on Monday to give me some clonodine, hydroxizine, nurotin, and I even got laughed at for asking for a benzo. Docs and nurses hate giving me any type of habit forming drug, I always had to go to the black market or the funniest place on Earth, TJ. So I cannot wait to see what this dude is going to give me. Even if my testosterone is low, I sure wouldn't mind company of the fairer sex at the moment, probably tmi.

Another fucking great thing that happened too is my roommate asking if I know anyone. I am over 1700+ miles from the closest person I even know to ask (I would know where to go ask if I was trying to source myself) It kind of upset me though that he had the nerve to even ask. I understand he is an (ex) junky as well and got shit from his girl but really.