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Opioids Loperamide (Imodium) Megathread v. 2

I disagree, especially since two brands with two different sets of inactive ingredients caused different unpleasant symptoms.

Indeed, a sidenote, most generic brands of Loperamide contain Lactose. I would imagine the amounts of lactose can easily be 10 grams or more when taking psychoactive doses of lope. Name brand Imodium apparently doesn't contain lactose.

As posted above though, Equate brand doesn't.

So for lactose intolerant persons, GI disturbances could likely manifest from the lactose.

That said, I do not experience this cramping from Kirkland brand personally, which does contain lactose.

It would truly suck if one had to buy namebrand Imodium considering its not sold in 400 count packages and even the 18 count boxes are HIDEOUSLY expensive. Probably not as expensive as scoring scheduled opioids off the street though.
 
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http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/726033-Does-raspberry-ketone-inhibit-the-BBB

I created my own topic but maybe it's more appropriate here. Basically I'm trying to find out if I f***ed up because I took 4 immodiums as I always do before eating a big meal when I've felt sick throughout the day but then a few hours later took raspberry ketones and DLPA. I explain it there. My concern is the Immodium may have gotten through the BBB somehow if say the Ketones inhibited it (I've found nothing on it) and I don't want Parkinson's.

I figure someone here might be knowledgeable enough about chemistry to be able to answer this one
 
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/726033-Does-raspberry-ketone-inhibit-the-BBB

I created my own topic but maybe it's more appropriate here. Basically I'm trying to find out if I f***ed up because I took 4 immodiums as I always do before eating a big meal when I've felt sick throughout the day but then a few hours later took raspberry ketones and DLPA. I explain it there. My concern is the Immodium may have gotten through the BBB somehow if say the Ketones inhibited it (I've found nothing on it) and I don't want Parkinson's.

I figure someone here might be knowledgeable enough about chemistry to be able to answer this one

Hypochondriac much?

You're fine. Please chill out, if you feel you're in any danger - go t a doctor. They'll probably look at you like you're dumb and make you feel stupid though.


Why do you take 8 mg of loper for 'feeling sick,' is this due to opioid WD?

I can pretty much guarantee you don't have parkinsons symptoms from a taking 8 mg of lope with anything short of something which actively, or turns into something (prodrug) which actually destroys dopamine receptors.

Indeed, a sidenote, most generic brands of Loperamide contain Lactose. I would imagine the amounts of lactose can easily be 10 grams or more when taking psychoactive doses of lope. Name brand Imodium apparently doesn't contain lactose..

I am sensitive to lactose and do get gas after dosing kirkland at around 40 pills (I wouldn't even call 100 pills - 200 mg - psychoactive, there are no positive discernable effects.... or really any dose, loperamide is not a 'get high' toy) and it gives me gas but no diarrhea, I'll try to take it with some lactase next time and see what's up. I don't have intolerance bad enough to pay for equate.


Anyone have an opinion on the simethicone I listed for the equate? They all seem to have odd stuff, lactose is paradoxical even for some people.

Why not just microcrystalline cellulose and a ton of pressure and some inert thing for a coating? What's all the various stuff do? Is this to keep the 2 mg even when mixing the powder stage?
 
My brain is fried by lyrica, and I have zero memory. So I dont know if I asked this before. ...but do you guys who are addicted have regular bowel movements? Or... is it difficult?
 
I get Lyrica prescribed, and taking it regular for withdrawls, it's amazing, it gets me thru it
 
Hi, SWIM has the tolerance of 140 mg. of methadone daily, What doses of loperamide and omeprazole should SWIM take to get high?

SWIM is from Spain and loperamide as omeprazole are both OTC

Mi last question, Can methadone negate de effect of crossing blood-brain barrer loperamide? If it's affirmative, How long has SWIM stop taking methadone to experience the effect of loperamide?
 
OK, sorry, I have read loperamide crossing blood-brain barrer is only for withdrawal and is not recreational.

So, you say high doses of loperamide voids all withdrawal symptoms? Only high doses of loperamide or also another factor to loperamide cross the BBB?

The use of loperamide in withdrawal, will more effective than clonidine? Can loperamide and clonidine be used simultaneously in opiate withdrawal?

SWIM shortly will withdraw the metadone after ten years taking 140 mg. daily and he can get loperamide, omeprazole and clonidine, Is it appropiate that SWIM use to cope with all the phasing out?
 
^what most people are mentioning is actually pretty dangerous without stool softeners.

Not I, if you have a tolerance to opioids so does your gut. If you are constipated you're probably way over doing it, gonna develop a serious loperamide dependency, and be chained to the stuff for a very long time. It is not a miracle, but it is a miracle if you don't want methadone/bupe and you can deal with the incomplete opiatedoutnessd.


OK, sorry, I have read loperamide crossing blood-brain barrer is only for withdrawal and is not recreational.

So, you say high doses of loperamide voids all withdrawal symptoms? Only high doses of loperamide or also another factor to loperamide cross the BBB?

The use of loperamide in withdrawal, will more effective than clonidine? Can loperamide and clonidine be used simultaneously in opiate withdrawal?

SWIM shortly will withdraw the metadone after ten years taking 140 mg. daily and he can get loperamide, omeprazole and clonidine, Is it appropiate that SWIM use to cope with all the phasing out?

(We don't use the term SWIM or anything like that IE My pet what the fuck ever - we know it is YOU, and not only that, you're taking a legal maintenance treatment...)

It voids all of the terrible aches and pains, the horrible anxiety, in short the most terrible and soul crushing aspects of acute opioid cessation. Whether this is due in total to the PNS effects, or it cross the BBB and having central effects has not been completely documented, and is up for discussion IMO. If it had central effects surely you'd feel some sort of contentedness that regular opioids provide and not merely relief from withdrawal. Many would disagree with my assessment, but we're generally in agreement that it 1. stops WD 2. it is not recreational.

Yes it can be taken with clonidine. If you cold turkey at 140 mg, I would be shocked at the dosage of loperamide you would probably need. This is not a particularly good plan, and tapering methadone to a doable level and then tapering loperamide would be preferable in my opinion. I can't condone trying to titrate up loperamide to cover 140 mg of methadone on a chronic basis. The only way I could condone it is if you were thrown out of a methadone program at that level, have no option to move downwards, and are suicidal with clonidine and other drugs taken as needed for an acute period (like benzos) not covering the bare necessities, and a lower dose of loperamide to take the most horrible edge off.

Remember, if you switch to loperamide you will not receive near the same 'coverage' or feeling of opioid contentedness that you currently receive from a full on mu agonist in the CNS like methadone does - I personally consider methadone recreational if not taken chronically. That it also doesn't block a high from other 'real' opioids like heroin/morphine and so on, this means that if you're not completely sure of yourself it won't be hard to use an opioid to get high like it currently is.

Remember many addicts are very sure of things they shouldn't be (IE I'm not addicted, I can control it, I can chip and not get back on the wagon). The ability at self deception concerning this class of drugs is so tremendous that it is hard to believe until you personally experience it and after that it is now too late. You move on to the last one I mentioned after you get off them entirely, usually induced by PAWS. It is the one which you probably started with, it's quite cyclical: "I can use responsibly/ I can can chip and not get back on them like I was before." A vicious vicious, sometimes lethal, completely controlled by both positive and negative reinforcement cycle. Loperamide can be easy to taper since there is no high you can authentically chase like you can even with bumping up methadone when you're at certain doses, imagine if you took 250mg (of methadone), there would be some feeling of a 'high' I imagine even if not considered recreational like morphine. Doubling loperamide after being at a stable dosage that removes WD will do nothing, might make you puke a BUNCH. I've only puked once from loperamide doing something along these lines when I started experimenting with it and was so impressed by it's ability to remove WD that I ventured into stupid territory and learned my lesson.

I threw up every 10-15 minutes for two hours, drinking water just so I had something to puke and not dry heave which would occur if I didn't. The vomit center of the brain would be relieved by the vomiting and I'd feel relief, it would reset and the blood levels of the lope absorbed would shock it into another set of puking. I was lucky I did no damage other than to my poor teethies (that I'm aware of, and even to my teeth is just an assumption but probably did a little for sure).

In conclusion (TL;DR) I think that it would be best to taper to a much lower, definitely sub-100 mg level before you attempted to taper with loperamide. When you do this it is essential to take the minimal amount of loperamide necessary to make life bearable as it is still an opioid with a long half life that will also have it's own WDs. It would only be a true miracle drug if you could take it, remove WDs, and it itself would not have WDs. Opioids would then be considered fairly innocuous short of acute ODs - this is not the case.

Edit: I'd direct you here (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/601690-Methadone-Mega-Thread-and-FAQ-v-2-0?p=12410901) to discuss tried strategies for reducing methadone dosage / getting off of it. I'm sure there are people there who have gone the route I described (reducing methadone to lower levels - sub 30 mg would be great, the less the better - and tapering loperamide from there).
 
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Hypochondriac much?

Why do you take 8 mg of loper for 'feeling sick,' is this due to opioid WD?

No. It's actually I can tell when I'm going to have inconvenient stools and I always try and time that function for when I'm at home and can bathe afterwards.

Often times if I'm going to eat a lot or go out partying I'll use it. I use it to deliberately stop bowel movements, because some times they are inconvenient. Though admittedly both times when I had my injuries I used it deliberately to stretch out my prescriptions longer, because I knew it would lock up the gut meaning less needed for the brain. I tend not to take anything prescribed without reading exactly whats in it.

For what it's worth it seems like the issues cleared up. If there had been a Parkinson's MPTP event it would've happened by now. My question about raspberry ketones remains mainly because of grapefruit juice and the fact that perhaps ketone being an unresearched fruit component may have done the same. Because I know what it feels like to be on a painkiller, especially with itching and I felt that Friday night.

Still it's an interaction I don't wish to repeat. I did read a report that says that Loperamide and Desmethylloperamide themselves are in fact inhibitors of the CY whatever it is enzyme. Surprised no one looked it up. This might be why these people taking the high doses get high. Because it can in fact inhibit the enzyme that inhibits it when there is enough of it.

If I knew it wouldn't be neurotoxic I would use it as a painkiller as I've found opioid painkillers work the best with the least side effects, but Parkinsons is something I wont risk.
 
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No. It's actually I can tell when I'm going to have inconvenient stools and I always try and time that function for when I'm at home and can bathe afterwards.

Often times if I'm going to eat a lot or go out partying I'll use it. I use it to deliberately stop bowel movements, because some times they are inconvenient. Though admittedly both times when I had my injuries I used it deliberately to stretch out my prescriptions longer, because I knew it would lock up the gut meaning less needed for the brain. I tend not to take anything prescribed without reading exactly whats in it.

For what it's worth it seems like the issues cleared up. If there had been a Parkinson's MPTP event it would've happened by now. My question about raspberry ketones remains mainly because of grapefruit juice and the fact that perhaps ketone being an unresearched fruit component may have done the same. Because I know what it feels like to be on a painkiller, especially with itching and I felt that Friday night.

Still it's an interaction I don't wish to repeat. I did read a report that says that Loperamide and Desmethylloperamide themselves are in fact inhibitors of the CY whatever it is enzyme. Surprised no one looked it up. This might be why these people taking the high doses get high. Because it can in fact inhibit the enzyme that inhibits it when there is enough of it.

If I knew it wouldn't be neurotoxic I would use it as a painkiller as I've found opioid painkillers work the best with the least side effects, but Parkinsons is something I wont risk.


From raspberry ketones, do you mean as a P-glycoprotien inhibitor, or CYP inhibitor? As a CYP inhibitor, do you have a reference for this claim? It would be entirely new to me. It says Ritonavir increases loperamide plasma levels and "Ritonavir induces CYP 1A2 and inhibits the major P450 isoforms (3A4 and 2D6)." Though wikipedia says "Metabolism Hepatic (extensive)," nih.gov says: "Concurrent administration with CYP3A4 inhibitors may elevate loperamide" (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18192961 but not the full article which is about the pharmacology of loperamide in totality, the full article would probably tell if hepatic metabolism was significant)" it seems that the CYP 3A4 isoform is responsible for some of or all of it's metabolism.

Also "N-desmethyl-loperamide is selective for P-glycoprotein among three ATP-binding cassette transporters at the blood-brain barrier."////" at high concentrations (> or =20 microM), it acts as both a substrate and an inhibitor (i.e., a competitive substrate)," and it discusses it's use as a radiotracer: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20212014

Maybe this accounts for it's complex pharmacology and why it seems that these effects are very subjectively variable: opioid WD relief, analgesia, and cessation of diarrhea, though the last one (it's only legal indication) seems to always be reliable in everyone just to a different extent.


You risk parkinsons by being alive ;), short of the MPTP the prodrug of MPP+ which is the dopamine destroyer, I'm not sure anything is linked and known definitively to kill dopaminergic receptors in vivo, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I know there's some speculation about aluminum, we use it in drinking containers and all kinds of stuff. At least in soda cans there is a plastic liner inside, but I don't think there is on the lid, etc, how much aluminum is absorbed by the body, and how long does it take to be cleared, and is there in vitro studies of human cells and dopamine receptor destruction?

Quick search of google scholar doesn't pop up a bunch of results, anyone have journal access for the following article? How many antacids really contain aluminum? This is concerning as I get heartburn often enough to take antacids, but don't wanna take PPIs some of their known side effects are disturbing (inducement of allergies and other serious stuff) and chronic side effects not thoroughly known for all of them so short of a stomach ulcer I'm not taking them when I can pop an 2 antacids with water and repeat every 10 minutes until I'm good, you start to burp that CO2 from the neutralization. I always imagine the lava volcano in my food pit.

"Development of an in vitro blood–brain barrier model—cytotoxicity of mercury and aluminum
T Toimela, H Mäenpää, M Mannerström… - Toxicology and applied …, 2004 - Elsevier
... Aluminum-containing antacids as a cause of idiopathic Parkinson's disease. Med. Hypotheses,
53 (1999), pp. 22–23. ... Arthur et al., 1987"



As for using it merely not to take a shit, this is a bad idea all the way around unless you have some disease/autoimmune bowel issue where you need it - without it you would have diarrhea, otherwise, wtf man? Again if you have IBS/Crohns disease or something like that, then the opioids for pain and the loperamide would be understandable. If you don't and are on opioids for musculoskeletal pain or whatever, then I

As for 'stretching your prescriptions longer' because it 'locks up your gut' I don't know what the hell you're talking about. It doesn't increase the potency or the high from CNS agonist mu opioids, I don't think it's particularly synergistic for analgesia (now I don't have chronic pain, or if I do it is minimal, transient, and controlled with OTC anti-inflammatories) If anything all it really seemed to do was raise tolerance to the high of oxycodone/methadone when hefty doses were taken.

Taking 8 mg isn't going to do too much unless you are towards the more opioid naive spectrum (on less than 40 mg equivalent of hydrocodone daily or something along these lines), then it will cause very painful stools. Since you think you felt some central opioid effects or something along this line at such a low dose you should probably be careful with this stuff. Please if you don't have a medical indication for loperamide, or are taking it for W/D please don't use it to control when you take a shit. It's not a poop delayer, it's an anti-diarrheal which also helps ease W/D.
 
Not I, if you have a tolerance to opioids so does your gut. If you are constipated you're probably way over doing it, gonna develop a serious loperamide dependency, and be chained to the stuff for a very long time. It is not a miracle, but it is a miracle if you don't want methadone/bupe and you can deal with the incomplete opiatedoutnessd.




(We don't use the term SWIM or anything like that IE My pet what the fuck ever - we know it is YOU, and not only that, you're taking a legal maintenance treatment...)

It voids all of the terrible aches and pains, the horrible anxiety, in short the most terrible and soul crushing aspects of acute opioid cessation. Whether this is due in total to the PNS effects, or it cross the BBB and having central effects has not been completely documented, and is up for discussion IMO. If it had central effects surely you'd feel some sort of contentedness that regular opioids provide and not merely relief from withdrawal. Many would disagree with my assessment, but we're generally in agreement that it 1. stops WD 2. it is not recreational.

Yes it can be taken with clonidine. If you cold turkey at 140 mg, I would be shocked at the dosage of loperamide you would probably need. This is not a particularly good plan, and tapering methadone to a doable level and then tapering loperamide would be preferable in my opinion. I can't condone trying to titrate up loperamide to cover 140 mg of methadone on a chronic basis. The only way I could condone it is if you were thrown out of a methadone program at that level, have no option to move downwards, and are suicidal with clonidine and other drugs taken as needed for an acute period (like benzos) not covering the bare necessities, and a lower dose of loperamide to take the most horrible edge off.

Remember, if you switch to loperamide you will not receive near the same 'coverage' or feeling of opioid contentedness that you currently receive from a full on mu agonist in the CNS like methadone does - I personally consider methadone recreational if not taken chronically. That it also doesn't block a high from other 'real' opioids like heroin/morphine and so on, this means that if you're not completely sure of yourself it won't be hard to use an opioid to get high like it currently is.

Remember many addicts are very sure of things they shouldn't be (IE I'm not addicted, I can control it, I can chip and not get back on the wagon). The ability at self deception concerning this class of drugs is so tremendous that it is hard to believe until you personally experience it and after that it is now too late. You move on to the last one I mentioned after you get off them entirely, usually induced by PAWS. It is the one which you probably started with, it's quite cyclical: "I can use responsibly/ I can can chip and not get back on them like I was before." A vicious vicious, sometimes lethal, completely controlled by both positive and negative reinforcement cycle. Loperamide can be easy to taper since there is no high you can authentically chase like you can even with bumping up methadone when you're at certain doses, imagine if you took 250mg (of methadone), there would be some feeling of a 'high' I imagine even if not considered recreational like morphine. Doubling loperamide after being at a stable dosage that removes WD will do nothing, might make you puke a BUNCH. I've only puked once from loperamide doing something along these lines when I started experimenting with it and was so impressed by it's ability to remove WD that I ventured into stupid territory and learned my lesson.

I threw up every 10-15 minutes for two hours, drinking water just so I had something to puke and not dry heave which would occur if I didn't. The vomit center of the brain would be relieved by the vomiting and I'd feel relief, it would reset and the blood levels of the lope absorbed would shock it into another set of puking. I was lucky I did no damage other than to my poor teethies (that I'm aware of, and even to my teeth is just an assumption but probably did a little for sure).

In conclusion (TL;DR) I think that it would be best to taper to a much lower, definitely sub-100 mg level before you attempted to taper with loperamide. When you do this it is essential to take the minimal amount of loperamide necessary to make life bearable as it is still an opioid with a long half life that will also have it's own WDs. It would only be a true miracle drug if you could take it, remove WDs, and it itself would not have WDs. Opioids would then be considered fairly innocuous short of acute ODs - this is not the case.

Edit: I'd direct you here (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/601690-Methadone-Mega-Thread-and-FAQ-v-2-0?p=12410901) to discuss tried strategies for reducing methadone dosage / getting off of it. I'm sure there are people there who have gone the route I described (reducing methadone to lower levels - sub 30 mg would be great, the less the better - and tapering loperamide from there).

Well, just for reference, I just had 560 grams of good poppy seeds + cimiedtine + tonic water and needed 50 mg dipenhydramine to make it work. I wouldn't say im a very regular user, i.e. no vicodin script or anything.

So maybe you just have a really big butthole. YMMV.

*edit- This was directed at your response to me, I don't know why it only quoted that part.
 
Well, just for reference, I just had 560 grams of good poppy seeds + cimiedtine + tonic water and needed 50 mg dipenhydramine to make it work. I wouldn't say im a very regular user, i.e. no vicodin script or anything.

So maybe you just have a really big butthole. YMMV.

*edit- This was directed at your response to me, I don't know why it only quoted that part.

Because you put quote tags around all of it, and fucking selected it all. It's all in there. Learn how to internet.

And that isn't anything for opioids, and all of the other garbage you mentioned besides cimetidine isn't a potentiator, and cimetidine probably didn't really matter for shit. What is your point.... about anything? You're posting in a thread about loperamide, you barely take any opioids, and you're whining that loperamide is constipating?
 
:(

That makes me very high and happy. Good for pain and anxiety too. I think its a lot.

Loperamide is a stool hardner. It makes the poop hurt my butt.

You said no, so I answered your question.

Those things def potentiate thru enzyme inhibition, and i mean a half pound good seeds I think would get most people very nice and high.

I brought that up because you mentioned opiate tolerance. So i answered your question. I think thats a tolerance. No tolerance would mean a small amount works. Lol.
 
Thanks you, lolwhatzdrugs, then I should be in a lower dose before using loperamide to help withdrawal symptoms.

At what point might be what dose and what dose be aproppiate of loperamide?
 
I'm sure he's fine.. He's been a smart advocate for lopermide since the last thread.. He knows his shit..
 
Well, just for reference, I just had 560 grams of good poppy seeds + cimiedtine + tonic water and needed 50 mg dipenhydramine to make it work. I wouldn't say im a very regular user, i.e. no vicodin script or anything.

So maybe you just have a really big butthole. YMMV.

*edit- This was directed at your response to me, I don't know why it only quoted that part.

Taking cimetidine with poppy seeds is useless. The main component of poppy seeds(if you actually get unwashed seeds, and even then you would insane dose, and even more luck) is morphine.

Morphine is subject to phase 2 metabolism- that is, it is glucoronized by UGT and the like. It is NOT metabolized by P450 system.

And tonic water is always useless. It contains only trace amounts of quinine, which is just a mild inhibitor. And more to the point, studies have proven it has no effect; even when taken several days in a row.

Frankly, for WD relief, your better off with loperamide then trying to harvest alkaloids from fucking seeds.
 
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