Opioids Loperamide (Immodium) Megathread: We have now lost at least 2 of our own from Lope

[WantToBeReborn]

I'm so sorry for your loss Happydaysover and thank you for coming here to participate in harm reduction. You mustn't blame yourself though, as difficult as that is, you were not to have known, nor was your son, just how dangerous these seemingly innocuous drugs can be.

I too feel that Loperamide is a highly misunderstood drug, particularly given its over the counter status. More people are getting into trouble with this drug than is commonly known about.

 

[MannimalMorris]

^^^

You only needed 60 pills to take away the withdrawals from 120mg's of methadone? That doesn't make much sense. That is a very high dose of methadone... with how weak loperamide is you should have needed way way more to even touch your dependence.

I was prowling the backpages and felt the need to chime in here....

I am currently on MMT (Stable at 70mg, started October 23rd, 2013). This past weekend I received two take homes (instead of my weekly normal of 1) because the clinic was closed monday due to Presidents day.

Anywho, I ended up taking both my take homes Sunday night around 5pm. That dose held me just fine through Sunday. On Monday morning upon awakening is when I recognized that old familiar feeling. It seems whenever I awake from a night of melatonin induced sleep I almost always feel withdrawal symptoms earlier than I normally would. I ended up taking 25 walgreens brand generic loperamides (50mg), I waited a good hour and a half before the hot and cold flashes started hitting bad so I took another 25 pills (another 50mg) bringing my total daily intake of Loperamide to 100mg. After an hour I felt about 95% relief from my withdrawal symptoms and was able to go to sleep relatively early. I was at the clinic this morning at 6AM to dose. I also must note that I felt bad this morning. I have enough gastro issues due to the methadone and am worried as to any effects this dose will have . Anyways, just wanted to share my experience documenting almost TOTAL WITHDRAWAL RELIEF of a daily 70mg methadone habit on 100mg of loperamide.

 

[citizenuzi]

Woah, dudes. Possible cardiotoxicity from blood level buildup, due to overlapping half-lives? Count me out for ever trying any kind of long term, heavy use like I see talked about. I can understand taking it for a few days during acute short acting opiate w/d, although I've only tried once at about 50mg - with little to no positive effect. I always thought the long term, crazy heavy doses (that it seems like more and more people talk about) sounded unpleasant anyway, if only for the GI effects.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

I was prowling the backpages and felt the need to chime in here....

I am currently on MMT (Stable at 70mg, started October 23rd, 2013). This past weekend I received two take homes (instead of my weekly normal of 1) because the clinic was closed monday due to Presidents day.

Anywho, I ended up taking both my take homes Sunday night around 5pm. That dose held me just fine through Sunday. On Monday morning upon awakening is when I recognized that old familiar feeling. It seems whenever I awake from a night of melatonin induced sleep I almost always feel withdrawal symptoms earlier than I normally would. I ended up taking 25 walgreens brand generic loperamides (50mg), I waited a good hour and a half before the hot and cold flashes started hitting bad so I took another 25 pills (another 50mg) bringing my total daily intake of Loperamide to 100mg. After an hour I felt about 95% relief from my withdrawal symptoms and was able to go to sleep relatively early. I was at the clinic this morning at 6AM to dose. I also must note that I felt bad this morning. I have enough gastro issues due to the methadone and am worried as to any effects this dose will have . Anyways, just wanted to share my experience documenting almost TOTAL WITHDRAWAL RELIEF of a daily 70mg methadone habit on 100mg of loperamide.

That's interesting but you can't know that the lope would have held you after only one day off the methadone. It's got an incredibly long half-life, plus the doses stack on top of each other and build up the longer you are on it, so it would take days for you to actually feel real withdrawals, and at that point, if you took lope and it worked, you could make a judgement. But not after only one day off the methadone.

 

[THE_REAL_OBLIVION]

I wonder if Kurt Cobain knew about this when he penned "Immodium" (original title of "Breed").
The original Pennyroyal Tea demo from 1990 is pretty damn explicit about opiate constipation and other gastro-intestinal effects, a lot more hilarious too. Still, once I took 32mg of behind the counter-need to ask pharmacist generic loperamide and it's very expensive here in .ca, those 15 pills must have cost close to 20 dollars.
Did nothing, I called my Dilaudid dealer the same night...and if taking huge doses of that stuff kills/harms people, I say just buy yourself some codeine+aspirin, codeine+tylenol or Mersyndol pills (codeine+doxylamine+tylenol).

 

[amanitadine]

According to some, Cobain named "Immodium" such after doing an early European tour with Tad, of whom Tad Doyle had horrible digestive issues all the time....barfing and shitting.....they were all cramped in a tiny van, and Tad Doyle is a BIG guy, so I imagine him having to wolf down immodium and shit all the time could make a lasting impression :D

The first mention of loperamide for opioid withdrawals to my knowledge was in a Seattle zine in the 90's, called "Pills a go go", by Jim Hogshire, who later went on to write "Opium for the Masses", and blow the lid off of a little known secret. "Pills a go go" was later compiled and released as a book.

I'm so sorry for your loss Happydaysareover. I can't imagine. My heart goes out to you.

I've used loperamide for opioid withdrawal but never in mega doses....well, as mega as some of you. Years ago I'd use 20 mg or so a day while kicking dope. Lately I've used up to 60 mg the first day while going through Kratom withdrawals. At that amount it takes care of most of the opioid aspect of Kratom withdrawals (I Take 50g of plain leaf of day and have for a few years) but naught for the strange antidepressant like WD's of Kratom. Subsequent days I need less and less. The potential for PQT intervals and the LPP+ metabolite are indeed worrying.

Sixpartsseven mentioned heart problems and the ICU a somewhere but didn't elaborate...

 

[CoKAzNReBel]

I am still here in the hospital for this. I will be wearing a defribliating vest until this can potentially heal itself. IF not i might need implants in my heart to fix the electrical damage. I have stress mycopothy, probably from the shock.

LOPERAMIDE IS NOT A DRUG TO TRY TO GET HIGH ON. It is VERY dangerous. The lead on my case was the person who wrote the first paper about methadone elongating QT intervals, and now he is writing one about me. Loperamide in high enough doses for you to nod is potentially Deadly.

Ive been inside. same bed, 12 days.....because i was too much of a pussy to withdrawal from loperamide and kept gobbling down as much as i needed to feel ok.

If you are addicted, and are experiencing feeling like shit, get your ass to the ER before its too late.

 

[Oxide]

Loperamide has been a useful ally to me over the past year, since I last posted in one of these threads.

I never need much, maybe 6-8mg to stop withdrawals. I never get much worse than mild-moderate withdrawals though due to my usage patterns.

Add a little DXM into the mix, and you have a (temporary) withdrawal solution.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Only 6-8mg's stopped your withdrawals? How low was your opiate tolerance for that to work?

 

[Non Nobis Solum]

^^

Only 6-8mg's stopped your withdrawals? How low was your opiate tolerance for that to work?

About 10-12mg did it for me, I'd take 6 when I woke up and 6 at night... I no longer take it. I jumped off .25-.5mg of bupe.

 

[Coughingking]

I've tried this several times, primarily out of desperation. First, my history:

I am a hardcore, lifelong, dedicated addict. I've shot up before some of you even knew what a "drug" was. I have a solid 15 years of opiate addiction. Quit banging last year... for now. And been rocking the poppy Tea because my pain managment doctor closed his practice and I live in Rural Texas now where Meth is more prevalent than opiates. Though they are around. If it got you down, I've done it. done it fucking all. And I can safely say, I will be on opioids for life. It works. Addiction sucks sometimes, but sobriety sucks worse. Now that I'm getting older, Sex isn't as attractive as it used to be, drinking is to hard on the system, and other drugs lost their novelty value years back. So saddling up on the horse every few days, or a few times a day - depending on what I have and where I am, is no choice at all.

Anyway, regarding loperimide, what I have found out is that, yes it does cross BBB but it isn't "Euphoric" at all. You can feel sedation, dizziness and numbness, but it doesn't feel "good" in the same way most opiates do. Think of a less euphoric Tramadol or less euphoric Darvocet - for those of us who were around back in the day when that shit was easy to get. Loperimide is quite literally a last resort, so bad, I make batches with POUNDS of poppy seeds before even considering it. The last time I even took this shit was when I was in Sweden and couldn't score and needed some relief from WD, so I took 20 2mg tabs, and got some minor relief for just over a day.

The only way someone could feel a high on this drug is if they have never used opiates, real opiates, and they got down on this shit for the first time and they were confused about what an opiate feels like. to new drinkers, all wine tastes the same. same deal in opiates. newbies think that codiene, morphine, heroin, oxy, loperimide, tramadol, even KRATOM feel the same. I've seen newkids who have maybe had 20 vicodin tell me KRATOM is like OXY.

Loperimide is a lot like drinking boone's farm. no one should do it unless they have to. its literally the emergency parachute of opiate withdrawal prevention.

I once took 96 pills, and felt really dizzy, weird, and nauseated, like a sedated, muted version of an opiate high... no mood lifting effects at all. Oh, and I SHIT BLOOD when i finally shat a week later - worst experience ever. scared me strait from that crap. the only use it has for anyone who does any opiates is that it will stop your WD. The shitting blood part is frightening to me, so loperimide is the only opiate to be on my "No list" along with Krokodil. And I've shot up everything. I've put stuff that may have been sand into my arm. And I still won't touch the stuff unless im in WD and it's all I can get.

with that said i am goiing to go dose myself with some poppy tea. cheers.

 

[Tommyboy]

also i think banning talk about trying to get high on lope is a bad idea just because it has a shitty buzz. people should know as much as possible, including that it has a shitty high that isnt worth it, as well as how dangerous it can be. the more people that test it out and report negative experiences now the less it should happen down the road, let these guys pioneer this shit and get it out of the way forever. id rather read post after post of people being disappointed than a couple saying it sucked and a couple saying it kinda worked which is sorta where were at now. maybe its just me but if i were curious about this and doing research id be much more likely to try it out if it seems like it has potential but hasnt been checked out enough.

Well we are mostly just interested in banning any discussion that encourages the use of lope as a means to get high. We are certainly not asking that people don't tell a person that it's a shitty high that's not worth the risk should they ask.

 

[happydaysover]

I've tried this several times, primarily out of desperation. First, my history:

I am a hardcore, lifelong, dedicated addict. I've shot up before some of you even knew what a "drug" was. I have a solid 15 years of opiate addiction. Quit banging last year... for now. And been rocking the poppy Tea because my pain managment doctor closed his practice and I live in Rural Texas now where Meth is more prevalent than opiates. Though they are around. If it got you down, I've done it. done it fucking all. And I can safely say, I will be on opioids for life. It works. Addiction sucks sometimes, but sobriety sucks worse. Now that I'm getting older, Sex isn't as attractive as it used to be, drinking is to hard on the system, and other drugs lost their novelty value years back. So saddling up on the horse every few days, or a few times a day - depending on what I have and where I am, is no choice at all.

Anyway, regarding loperimide, what I have found out is that, yes it does cross BBB but it isn't "Euphoric" at all. You can feel sedation, dizziness and numbness, but it doesn't feel "good" in the same way most opiates do. Think of a less euphoric Tramadol or less euphoric Darvocet - for those of us who were around back in the day when that shit was easy to get. Loperimide is quite literally a last resort, so bad, I make batches with POUNDS of poppy seeds before even considering it. The last time I even took this shit was when I was in Sweden and couldn't score and needed some relief from WD, so I took 20 2mg tabs, and got some minor relief for just over a day.

The only way someone could feel a high on this drug is if they have never used opiates, real opiates, and they got down on this shit for the first time and they were confused about what an opiate feels like. to new drinkers, all wine tastes the same. same deal in opiates. newbies think that codiene, morphine, heroin, oxy, loperimide, tramadol, even KRATOM feel the same. I've seen newkids who have maybe had 20 vicodin tell me KRATOM is like OXY.

Loperimide is a lot like drinking boone's farm. no one should do it unless they have to. its literally the emergency parachute of opiate withdrawal prevention.

I once took 96 pills, and felt really dizzy, weird, and nauseated, like a sedated, muted version of an opiate high... no mood lifting effects at all. Oh, and I SHIT BLOOD when i finally shat a week later - worst experience ever. scared me strait from that crap. the only use it has for anyone who does any opiates is that it will stop your WD. The shitting blood part is frightening to me, so loperimide is the only opiate to be on my "No list" along with Krokodil. And I've shot up everything. I've put stuff that may have been sand into my arm. And I still won't touch the stuff unless im in WD and it's all I can get.

with that said i am goiing to go dose myself with some poppy tea. cheers.

I'm glad you have shared this. It's been suggested to me that my son could have been hiding a secret opiate addiction but I really don't believe that's the case. I know he had only just heard about it and initially only got one box of 20 x 2mg. Somewhere between Tuesday and Friday he told a mate that he had found an on the shelf little known way to get an opiate high. He told his mate he had tried it and it was awesome. On Thursday he got 4 more boxes. We didn't know any of this until afterwards. I think you are right and that as a newbie he felt what he thought was an opiate high. His only previous experience was a mild poppy tea occasionally. I feel so angry that he read a stupid post on Reddit/drugs and believed it to be harmless. He was very intelligent and it seems out of character but I guess it shows the immature teenage side of him which is why I fear for other teenagers...

 

[f33lg00d]

I think you are right and that as a newbie he felt what he thought was an opiate high

I wouldn't don't he experienced an opioid high from it, coupling his opioid naïveté and high doses; it would pale in comparison to a normal opioid high but to a noob any type of opioid high can seem "awesome".

 

[vegantar]

i moved back to texas from portland, oregon late october 2013 and have tried loperamide many times since being back. only once/twice i have gotten anything out of it. this part of texas is kind of dry when it comes to h, but meth is everywhere x_x

 

[Whosajiggawaaa]

Ummmm what am I supposed to learn from their deaths pls. It's 02:30 and im lazy stoned as fk.

 

[RTrain]

I've been in the ICU for 11 days from the combination of loperamide and cimetadine. The muscle weakness you guys describe, is your heart giving out. I went into ventricular tachycardia and am extremely lucky to be alive. The cimetadine elongated the half life, so if you think your taking 150mg a day, your accumulating 25% per day. My blood levels were in the multigram range, and this prolongs your QTc interval of your heart. If you want to live, stop taking them now, go to the ER and get a EKG. I shouldn't be alive

Damn, that is crazy. Were you on any other medications that might have contributed to the prolonged QTc interval. I take a selective beta blocker called nebivolol for tachycardia and hypertension. I know there are a lot of medications that could interact negatively with it specifically because of the prolonged QT. I remember one was Ondansetron (Zofran)

Also want to add, its very unlikely someone OD'd on this stuff if they were using it for withdrawal purposes. Similar to the majority of buprenorphine OD's, it is most likely opiate naive people (or those with very low tolerances) trying to use it to get a cheap high (or because its the only thing they can get their hands on). It presents a good argument for legal sale of codeine in the USA, but that obviously has its risks, too. However, there is still known dosages for achieving recreational "highs" with it, unlike loperamide or other possible alternative like poppy pod/seed tea.

 

[Aloric]

What's the best way to come off lope?
I started (48mg) ten days after jumping off 1mg suboxone. Did a three week taper to 6mg and 24 hrs later was back in acute wd.
Restarted lope at 20mg/day to keep the acute wd just at arm's length. Still feel the PAWS though. Started opiates in 1999 and this is by far the longest period ever w/out using a scheduled opiate/oid.

 

[Mr.Scagnattie]

^^

Taper slowly. That's the best way to come off anything. Go down as much as you can handle comfortably. 2mg's a day, every other day, whatever.

 

[exaddict]

How long were you on Suboxone?I'm on a daily dose of 8mg.
So a day after stopping Lop you went back into full WD's?
Did you need a lower dose of Suboxone to stop WD's?