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Long term storage of DOC

Munroe

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Joined
Jun 28, 2010
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Does anyone have any information about the stability of DOC in solution?
I've done a few searches and found vague anecdotal evidence of solubility levels but nothing concrete, and nothing talking about its stability.

Obviously the best idea for long term storage would be as a powder in an airtight, lightproof vial in a cool place, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience with storing it in water or ethanol for long periods of time.
My main motive is ease of dosage this way, meaning I wouldn't have to get out the mg scales every time I wanted to dose. (or if i lose the scales)

Would a better option be to "cook up" some windowpane and store it that way?

Any comments are much appreciated.
 
It will outlive you I powder form. Probably in solution too.
 
Sorry yes, I forgot to mention ideally not in powder form, but if it's the only safe way I'll have to cope.
 
Edited above to add- probably in soln too. Use high% EtOH and airtight.
 
Things I can think of as alternatives to dissolving everything you have is:
- (obviously) only dissolving a portion you intend to use in the next foreseeable time.
- dissolve your compound in something like ethanol or isopropanol preferably since they evaporate much more nicely than water, then using an inert carrier like mannitol, mixing well and make sure the solution has more volume than the powder before you start evaporating but also make sure you mix everything after the volume has decreased to the volume of the powder. Ideally your carrier should dissolve in your solvent as well.
Do the calculations 3 times to make sure you are not fucking up by an order of magnitude or something. Arrange for your inert carrier to be a capsule full and fill all your capsules with standardized doses. You have now become a one-man pharmacy if you weren't one before.

Either make all doses a medium dose and accept that you will have to take out powder and weigh portions of it to get to a custom dose or make all doses fractions of a medium dose so that you have more control by taking an x number of capsules.
I'd try to find the golden mean that seems reasonable to you.

Personally I am fine weighing everything I have every time I want to do something with it but I can imagine if you have extremely potent stuff you want to have more control over it by using caps or blotters etc. And if you have a DOC (I mean drug of choice here :D ) that you take very often, my method may also suit you.

I encapsulated my nootropics and supplements when I experimented a lot with them. They would have been a serious pain in the ass to weigh every day. Got an encapsulating device for them to do 24 at a time.
 
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Can you elaborate a little more on this storage method please? I'm a noob and a little lost regarding how you get a solution of ethanol and other compound into capsule form? I'm assuming you have gel-caps like the types used for supplements, and of course one cannot put a liquid in those.
Thank you.
 
Notice how I say evaporate a couple of times. :)

A while ago, because of the issues with NBOMe compound dosing (they are very potent) I became a little infatuated with the idea of applying the drug to a carrier. This actually is not much more than cutting your drug on purpose when a dose is impractically tiny in size and your scale is not accurate enough to weigh single doses. So to go over it again:

You take your drug and dissolve it in something. I mention alcohols because they are relatively non-toxic, easy to get, and they evaporate better than water. Water sticks to everything which sucks. Only the amount of drug has to be known if you are going to evaporate the solvent later anyway... but I'd say it should be enough solvent to just make your carrier thoroughly wet but not much more than that.
If you dissolve it, stir well. Just verify that your drug does indeed dissolve well in the solvent and that it is not accidentally the freebase or something. Solutions become homogeneous (entirely mixed or dissolved in a uniform way) by themselves but stirring helps this along.

Then you take a carrier or cut, an inert compound meaning it just does as little as possible. The properties needed depend on a few things:
- it should not react with the drug, but especially with phenethylamines it would be an achievement if you found something that does. But just to be sure, I'd avoid something like citric acid - acids and bases are far from ideal - you want neutral. Types of sugar are good.
- it should not be opposed to the drug in too many physical/chemical properties. If there is some repulsion (as if magnetically pushed away) between your carrier and drug, you are asking for hot pockets: concentrated clumps of drug that make you overdose.
- it should not react with the environment. Like hygroscopic compounds, or ones that oxidize and turn into nasty weird shit.
- the route of administration you intend to use. If you are going to create a snortable powder then obviously do not choose something that burns! On the other hand for oral administration there often is less of a problem - but still. It needs to be harmless to put in your body. Always pick something water soluble, but for snortable powders this is significantly more important. Fat soluble powders may result in extended release capsules but probably not a lot unless you arrange this on purpose in some way.

So take this powder, measure the amount so that the relative weight makes sense. For example: if you take 10 mg of a potent drug you can use 990 mg of carrier to make a total of 1000 mg or a whole gram. In the end you will have a 1% mix. Take it and put it in a shallow bowl or something. I think a watch glass is ideal, but you don't usually find those outside of the lab.
Cover the powder with the solution that contains the drug. Adding more solvent after that to cover all the powder is not recommended.
Then, importantly, let the solution evaporate away. Given enough time it will happen without aid, but it helps a lot to let a fan blow air over it ever so slightly. But never hard enough to blow the powder up and away into the air! If there is some air movement it's enough.

During the process of evaporation try to mix it as often as you can. And when finished also mix mix mix.

The resulting powder mix can then be weighed practically because you multiplied the weight. And the powder will be practical to snort because And of course powders can be stored in capsules, no... liquids cannot.

IMPORTANT

There has been question about the possibility of this method creating hot pockets, so parts of the powder that are more potent than other parts. This could be dangerous and at the very least result in an unpredictable product. It has been argued that the whole solution story is unnecessary and inferior to just using a serious grinder. I'd say a blender won't do, not at all. It's hard to say exactly how you can be sure of enough homogenization, of enough mixing. Try to find the thread where this is discussed. The brazil nut effect is also mentioned there which is pretty much about hot pockets. Use the search engine of BL or use google.

If you feel like a noob, you may want to reconsider and stick to only liquid solutions to ensure homogenization.

Like I mentioned in that thread, a way to limit the danger is to never prepare too many doses at once. The more doses you process in this way in one single go, the more variation you can have in concentrations if you are not thorough enough or are not careful. It's better to have to do it a little more often (every now and then, or parallel batches at the same time), than to risk your health or life.

Personally I don't see how preparing 10 doses with this method can be dangerous. It just seems impossible by physics/statistics that you would accidentally end up with serious hot pockets, unless maybe you pick the wrong carrier and/or not mix it during the process. I feel uncomfortable betting lives on all of this, if you have doubts maybe just don't do it. If you insist, do so at your own risk. Educate yourself. Don't skip steps. Start with as small quantities of the drug as possible to check if your method works as expected. Maybe only 2 or 3 doses, and see if the resulting experience makes sense. Unfortunately you are likely to have problems with the accuracy of your scale if you try to do this by weighing only 2 or 3 doses... so use volumetric measurement to get a known liquid concentration and take a part of it to enhance your accuracy.
 
Solipsis I have a question.

Evaporation is only used to recrystallize the solution? ? Because with my DOC I put 20mg (accurately mesured) with 5ml of White Vodka (37,5% ) so that's 4mg/ml and 2mg/0.5ml. I mixed the 20mg powder with the Vodka then I stirred / shake my amber vial for 20 minutes ~ and the powder was fully mixed in the solution. Then I applied 0.5ml into a sugar cube, dried it and ate it.

It was effective of course :) It is ok ? I still don't get the evaporation things ? What's his use instead of mixing the powder with a liquid and stirring / shaking it ?

Thanks :D
 
You just used volumetric measurement. Basically just making a solution, like liquid acid is a solution that can be applied. Only with acid it goes by the drop (pretty much every time I am aware of). I'd use the term volumetric measurement for every time you make a liquid for the purpose of dosing amounts that would not be suitable for just weighing themselves on a scale like that 2 mg you used.
If you dissolved MDMA, then I would not say it is volumetric measurement because there is not really the advantage of dosing more accurately. You can dose more accurately yes but it does not help / is not necessary. (Unless you have a +/- 1g scale and make a very large solution lol, but never mind).

Evaporation in the method I described is not for the purpose of recrystallization. You evaporate when applied to the carrier, so the precipitating drug (meaning it falls out of solution) is just randomly deposited throughout the carrier. At least that is what you want. Part of the concerns about hot pockets are considering localized recrystallization of the drug, for that reason I say mix mix mix.

If the carrier dissolves well in the solvent or even completely, it may perhaps seem like that is ideal because you reach homogenization in solution. Which is true, but when evaporating after that... first one compound will precipitate and then the other, depending on solubility differences. So it is probably still better not to actively dissolve the carrier.

Recrystallization is done with a drug and one or more solvents but not another solid compound. At least not when legitimately trying to purify a compound as one of the last steps. So the carrier is out of place here, and there is no intention of purifying the drug.

(Just FYI, what I have heard is that there are chemicals that are added when recrystallizing a drug like MDMA to produce bigger crystals... apparently. So you can fake it, huge crystals are not a guarantee for that reason. But I never got to know which chemicals those would be, or a sort of validation of that info)

What is the use of evaporating with a carrier instead of not evaporating without a carrier? Well evaporating with carrier can yield something that is snortable which matters in the case of NBOMe compounds for example. Another slight advantage of a powder that is weighed and put in capsules is that it could be considered slightly more practical to carry around with a capsule than a sugar cube, or divided among friends. Well, you can do the same with a solution but it just wouldn't be the same.
OK maybe the snorting advantage is one of the major ones, the rest is more like: when I think of pre-weighed capsules I think of something finished and stable, you can make all the doses right away and it is similar to how it is pharmaceutically done while a bunch of sugar cubes seems like just a little less finished or professional or whatever. What if you want to split a sugar cubed dose in half? Dissolve again? That's just more intricate than having powder in a cap that allows a little more freedom.

A while ago someone also came along and suggested a method for making liquid where doses go by the drop instead of volume. I am not going to argue the pro's and cons here but it is just one of the choices and everyone can make their own decision of what has the most pro's and least cons for them.
 
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