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Long term frequent psychedelic use and heart valve disease?

M

Memantine

Bluelighter
Joined
May 16, 2015
Messages
304
Hi,

I would like to hear from people's experience who used psychedelics a lot wether they also have heart valve disease?

The 5-HT2B story scares me a bit.
 
I have never heard of anyone on this forum who were heavily involved in many different psychedelic drugs, having any kind of heart valve or heart problems for that matter.
Your post was very vague so what is the "5-HT2B story" ?
 
Sorry for repost edit doesn't work on mobile.
The only evidence of 5-HT2B causing anykind of cardiopulmonary damage is with sertogenic stimulants, like mdma, mda methamphetamine.
Not all psychedelics are particularly strong binders to the 5-HT2B receptors.
It's used some but not so much you need to worry about heart damage.
 
I thought the danger lied in chronic stimulation of 5HT2B by taking a medicine like cabergoline, even weekly is sporadic enough to not cause any danger.
 
I'm a bit paranoid/concerned about this issue. Most (all?) of the psychedelics are agonists of the 5ht2b receptor. I don't imagine tripping once a month could possibly make this a risk, but it's probably the one thing that holds me back from microdosing all the time.
 
Alexander Shulgin (aka the godfather of MDMA) invented multiple psychedelic medicines. Shulgin and his wife Ann took psychedelics on 100's of occasions over several decades. Alexander Shulgin had his heart valve replaced in his 80s. 75 years is how long most people live.
 
TheBlackPirate said:
Alexander Shulgin (aka the godfather of MDMA) invented multiple psychedelic medicines. Shulgin and his wife Ann took psychedelics on 100's of occasions over several decades. Alexander Shulgin had his heart valve replaced in his 80s. 75 years is how long most people live.
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Just because they wanted to become guinea pigs and wound up abusing their bodies and minds by taking lots of drugs, and burning out what little intelligence they had, does not mean that it's safe for people who have heart valve problems to trip or take drugs.

The original poster should talk to his/her doctor and a cardiologist and just be honest and ask them about their heart issues and drug use, and if it's safe for them to take certain drugs.
 
perpetualdawn said:
Where did you get the idea that the Shulgins "burned out their intelligence"?
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Dr. Shulgin wasted his intelligence, talent, and ability with organic chemistry focusing only on drugs/psychedelics and becoming obsessed with them, instead of using his talents to do something that would actually change the world and humanity besides creating more drugs for people to get high on and abuse which they both did.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Dr. Shulgin wasted his intelligence, talent, and ability with organic chemistry focusing only on drugs/psychedelics and becoming obsessed with them, instead of using his talents to do something that would actually change the world and humanity besides creating more drugs for people to get high on and abuse which they both did.
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Wasted his intelligence eh? This may be the most ignorant post I have ever seen written on Bluelight, and that speaks volumes.
 
Hawk-o said:
Wasted his intelligence eh? This may be the most ignorant post I have ever seen written on Bluelight, and that speaks volumes.
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I'm sorry if I upset your extremely dogmatic religious beliefs; but you know that it's true, and he did waste his intelligence.
 
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PriestTheyCalledHim said:
I'm sorry if I upset your extremely dogmatic religious beliefs; but you know that it's true, and he did waste his intelligence.
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He got to spend most of his life working with something that interested him more than anything else. How can you consider that a waste?
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
Dr. Shulgin wasted his intelligence, talent, and ability with organic chemistry focusing only on drugs/psychedelics and becoming obsessed with them, instead of using his talents to do something that would actually change the world and humanity besides creating more drugs for people to get high on and abuse which they both did.
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I've debated this at length with you before, but i will just say that i think it is a slanderous value judgment and misrepresentation of an amazing man.
 
PriestTheyCalledHim said:
I'm sorry if I upset your extremely dogmatic religious beliefs; but you know that it's true, and he did waste his intelligence.
Click to expand...
My statement has nothing to do with religion, back to back Blulight hall of fame moronic statements. I have nothing more to say to you, on any issue. Good day.
 
perpetualdawn said:
Where did you get the idea that the Shulgins "burned out their intelligence"?
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Probably from War on Drugs propaganda attacking the Shulgin's reputation. Alexander Shuglin spent decades developing psychedelic medicines. Aleander and Ann also spent decades saving people with psychedelic therapy using those medicines. The fact the Shulgins took illegal drugs on hundreds, possibly thousands, of occasions and lived longer more meaningful existences than most proves prohibition of psychedelics isn't justified. The fact the Shuglins research healed others mental problems with these medicines proves the prohibition of those medicines is amoral. Prohibitionist governments couldn't disprove the fact some psychedelics are effective medicines and the therapeutic potential they have is high.

Hence, the governments attacked the reputation of the people promoting psychedelics in an attempt at discrediting the work they do.

In reality the Shulgins are actually respected and the work they did is continually cited in medical journals.

Best of all the they are getting vindicated. The War on Drug failed and the psychedelic psychotherapy they perpetuated prevailed. The Shuglins were the foundation of modern MDMA assisted psychotherapy. Now the MDMA assisted psychotherapy they fostered is legally saving veterans with PTSD and others. Truth and good finally did win.

...and beautifully. The governments War on Drug oppressed the Shuglins. Now the same government can't effectively save soldiers from PTSD with the old legal medicines. The community and legacy of the Shuglins are now saving those veterans with the Schedule 1 psychedelic medicine MDMA. Beautiful compassion, saving your oppressors with the medicine they oppressed. This is the potential the Shulgins recognized in psychedelic medicines, the potential of healing others and generating peace.
 
Twigs said:
He got to spend most of his life working with something that interested him more than anything else. How can you consider that a waste?
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Because it became an obsession and he and his wife would abuse the drugs they made, and ultimately they both paid the price for this.

TheBlackPirate said:
Probably from War on Drugs propaganda attacking the Shulgin's reputation.
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Actually, I'm against prohibition and the war on drugs; but nice projection of your own issues.

Psychedelic medicines? They already exist and people have been taking them for centuries in the case of cannabis, mushrooms, and cacti. Or for 73 years in the case of LSD. Shulgin did not invent MDMA, or MDA. The argument that Shulgin and his wife used them for therapeutic reasons is laughable since they apparently took all of them, and abused them. If people want to become lab rats for drugs that's their choice; but eventually it's going to catch up to their body and mind like it has done with both of them.

Also, they are only two people. Just because they and their lab rats who would blindly take anything Shulgin created did not have a bad reaction to these drugs based on having cardiac and heart problems, as Ann Shulgin is obese, does not mean that everyone will react this way.
 
I'm not gonna argue that drugs are most likely damaging our bodies at some extent depending on our own idiosyncracy and level of use.

I'm not gonna defend Shulgin as with his own achivements he seems to defend himself. Any achievement made by just anyone will left somebody uninterested and unimpressed. Besides that, you can always make the argument of he would have been even better if he hasn't...But that's just assuming something that never happened.

I just want to point out the large amount of all kind of artists and thinkers who used drugs to attain their excellence. The list will be endless.

Seeing drugs as something merely harmful is just seeing one side of the story. Drugs are basically things, and things by themselves are neither good or bad. Only our use of the thing will make it good or bad.
I like Jonathan Ott concept of smart drugs and silly drugs. Meaning there are not good or bad drugs by themselves if not for somebody in concret.
There is people who is able to do certain things thanks to the use of a certain drug, and there is people who stops being able to do certain things because of the use of a certain drug. This might very well be the case with the exactly same drug (any) in different people.

And as a last thought: I would love to be able to attain the altered states of conciousness I get from drugs without the need to use them. Because I find those experiences extremely stimulating and useful. Unfortunately this is the only path I know which takes me where I want to be.
 
It's always hard to say what effects the use of LSD has on the human body, since empirical science has been forced to ignore the use of psychedelics and performing appropriate studies related to their effects, both short term and longitudinal, because of government scheduling. For all we know, what you eat, breath in, and drink may be harming you and your gene pool in ways we have yet to even contemplate. Never mind what the role of mass consumption of pharmaceuticals taken by hundreds of millions of people each day is. You live in a giant petri dish, whether you know it or not, and getting to the bottom which came first, the chicken or the egg, gets more and more difficult with non-stop exposure to potential teratogens and the other multitude of compounds you ingest and/or are exposed to each waking moment of your life. One recent theory, called The Redox-methylation hypothesis http://www.kadlec.org/uploads/Deth.pdf, begins to try and tackle the issue of the epidemic of Autism Spectrum Disorders from a multi-disciplinary perspective, and tries to factor in and take into account the myriad variables (genetic, environmental, etc.) that may or may not be contributing to this epidemic. So as I digress, I think that trying to account for disease processes of any kind, that because of the kind of world we live in, makes it increasingly difficult to come to valid and reliable conclusions related to LSD use, as in "Will taking LSD cause_________", or anything else, for that matter, and until it is available for scientific scrutiny in real way, all we can do is speculate and use anecdotal information to arrive at any given "conclusion".
 
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