Lithium and After-Opiate Depression (22 days clean from Opana)

[stardust.hero]

I'll probably be around here to complain some more cause it just feels good to get things off of your chest sometimes

Yeah, please, don't hesitate to let your feeling out in here. This is your thread, you can talk about anything you need help with in here.

Check out this thread I listed below. It's long but it's actually one of my favorites. The poster uses his thread to keep us updated on his progress and to seek continuous support. I think you will find a lot of inspiration in it.

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/592892-Been-Clean-off-dope-for-3-months

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Yeah, please, don't hesitate to let your feeling out in here. This is your thread, you can talk about anything you need help with in here.

Check out this thread I listed below. It's long but it's actually one of my favorites. The poster uses his thread to keep us updated on his progress and to seek continuous support. I think you will find a lot of inspiration in it.

Thank you, glanced over the first page and I can already tell reading that has made me feel better. I'm going to keep it up and read it all through the day. Gave me some hope that I'm not just stuck right where I am and that after some time I'll be my old, slightly crazy (in a good way), self again. I miss that guy.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

I'm currently putting together some before and after pictures to give myself a goal and to monitor progress. Even after this short amount of time clean, pictures of me now look so radically different. I don't look pissed for no reason, I'm smiling, I'm with friends you get the idea. I'm not talking about pictures from my time withdrawing but when I was heavily using, I look like a different person.

Anyone else think this would be beneficial in any way? If anyone thinks they'd be inspired by seeing my change I'll post them, if not I'll just keep them for my own motivation.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Sorry for just using this as a blog, but I want to chronicle my progress. Walked to class today as I always do, but I took the long, scenic way home. With a heavy backpack and the fact that it's like 80 degrees, it was a good workout. Looked at cool graffiti, watched the river flow by, and enjoyed the sunny day. I've never exercised before to help withdrawal, but after this long walk I can certainly say it helps. My legs are tired, but not achy and painful. I can tell I'll sleep well tonight, something I normally never do. Overall, I can feel the progress. I'm looking up.

 

[Vaya]

Will lithium help after opiate depression? How long do I have to stay on it to stop being a zombie?

I never found myself "zombified" on lithium, even in doses between 900 and 1200mg/day; a relative of it, though, thorazine had me drooling.
Make sure to get the proper bloodwork tests consistently and in a timely fashion to reduce the risk of any complications, though!!

As to your first question: I think that the answer precludes understanding a little bit more about what drives opiate withdrawal/cessation-related depression.

The body's "natural opiates" (substance P, enkalphins, endorphins) are chemical mechanisms designed to interact biologically to reinforce healthy behaviors (everyone knows of the "runner's high" phenomenon), as well as to ease the perception and experience of pain. Chronic opiate abuse synthetically stimulates these endogenous opiate pathways which, over time, results in the body decreasing its natural production of these neurochemicals. When the synthetic reward (e.g. the drug) is removed, the body is in a state of disequilibrium as it fights to address the newfound lack of mu/delta/kappa opioid receptor stimulation. And it is during this period that most people experience anhedonia - the loss of pleasure in things that once provided feelings of reward.

Drug-induced anhedonia is often associated with, but is not equivalent to, clinical depression. So medications such as Librium may interact with pathways in the brain that are, in this context, irrelevant to feeling better. The only sure-fire way to re-right ones mind and mood is A.) abstinence and B.) implementing a profound change in lifestyle. Over time the body's inherent (and beautiful) plasticity will ensure that your baseline state returns to its levels of "biological normalcy."

To quote Tom Petty, and I find it particularly true of opiate detox and depression/anhedonia: "Waiting is the hardest part." But man. Is it worth the wait. Hop on over to Anomaly's inspiring thread and visit the last few pages for great examples of the type of psychic change that almost invariably occurs with getting clean!

Trying Lithium to combat depressive symptoms may or may not work, in other words. Of course, if there is a comorbid psychiatric issue that responds to Lithium, then it will certainly help. But I don't think Lithium itself represents a good alternative to simply waiting out the difficult process of reuniting with your humanity and emotions again. As a mood-stabilizer, however, I can definitely see it sanding down the experience's sharper edges. Lamictal may be a good option, too - I've had great success with it as a mood-stabilizer.

These are obviously issues to discuss and finalize with a licensed psychiatrist. My suggestion is to make your decision based on the myriad of wonderful information you've received so far, but take action only with the blessing of a medical professional who has extensive, personal knowledge of your specific circumstances.

Good luck! Let us know how things work out for you, and whether or not you do make use of psychotropic medications to facilitate getting well.

Overall, I can feel the progress.

This is very exciting! Your life is about to begin, FRF :D

~ Vaya

 

[stardust.hero]

I'm currently putting together some before and after pictures to give myself a goal and to monitor progress. Even after this short amount of time clean, pictures of me now look so radically different. I don't look pissed for no reason, I'm smiling, I'm with friends you get the idea. I'm not talking about pictures from my time withdrawing but when I was heavily using, I look like a different person.

Anyone else think this would be beneficial in any way? If anyone thinks they'd be inspired by seeing my change I'll post them, if not I'll just keep them for my own motivation.

I think that's a great idea. If you feel comfortable posting them in here, I think they will most certainly be beneficial to a lot of people. People's looks change when they are going from an addict and then into recovery.

I think in TDS it works a little differently when people use threads in a manner similar to "blogs" especially when documenting their road to recovery. It is not only helpful to yourself to see the progress you've made but it is also helpful to others to see the step by step and be able to see someone improve with their continued posts. It's also helpful to yourself because you can constantly receive feedback from others.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Thank you Vaya and Stardust. Both of your input is greatly appreciated. I had a bit of a rough day today but I know that is to be expected. Just really tired, no motivation. Essentially just the blah feeling. I know I'm not out of the woods yet but having good days gives me hope that the bad days will come less frequently.

Let me start by saying I'm proud of myself for what I did yesterday, I did not relapse in spite of extreme circumstances. I've had to face people using my DOC in front of me, offering it to me, even trying to push me into it. I think this may have had some kind of psychological effect on my mood because today (the day after) sucked. It's not craving it, just feel like something is missing which I guess is a type of craving. I don't feel all that compelled to go use, just feel like my body is missing some vital vitamin or nourishment.

On the upside whenever I feel down, I live near a ton of friends who are essentially on call to help me. I have it better than most, I am so lucky. On one hand, I've had to stay away from my using friends, who are dear friends and I want them to get better, but I also still have really close friends who don't use (hard drugs) and they are so understanding. They'll come sit with me, walk with me, and just get me out of the house at literally all hours of the day and night. I had a guy come over at 3am last night cause I couldn't sleep just to sit and drink a beer with me (I am not at all prone to alcoholism, I drink like one beer a day if that). I had a family history of narcotic addiction and I think that's what screwed me. Like my first post said, the first opiates I ever got were from a doctor cause I raced motocross and hurt myself alot. If that hadn't happend, I guess things would have been different.

 

[Vaya]

^Wow, that's intense about your "friends" trying to coerce you into relapsing; even more intense is the fact that you proved to yourself, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you don't need that shit in order to be yourself. I think it represents a huge step, FRF. Such a positive omen. Soak up that feeling of being proud of yourself, man. We addicts rarely get to savor such a sensation, eh?

As you astutely put it, you're not out of the woods yet. But the path is becoming a little less overgrown. If it helps (and it seems as though it does), continue to reach out to us!

All the best,

~ Vaya

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Thank you Vaya, your posts always make me feel better.

Still feeling kinda blue today, but also still clean so I'm trying to keep thinking of that to elevate my mood. My using friends are all amazed that I'm still clean, they can't believe it. I was using more than any of them and was able to stop so they call me their inspiration. I don't feel all that special but that's probably just my brain playing tricks on me, I guess what I did isn't all that easy.

Had a question about vitamins or supplements that may help with:
-lack of energy
-mood
-sleep

These are my three big problems right now. I take vitamin D daily because I had a known deficiency. I have on hand, magnesium, 5-htp, b-12, C, Milk Thistle, E, and A. Yeah I know I'm a vitamin nut but I DO NOT take these daily. I only took them as needed during withdrawal and mostly just the magnesium for RLS.

Anyone know what supplements could help me? Thanks in advance.

 

[Missykins]

A big part of successful recovery is avoiding people, places, and things associated with using. This often means getting new, sober friends. That's where developing new hobbies and participating in 12 Step fellowships such as Alcoholics/Narcotics Anonymous are helpful. For the newcomer, I often recommend AA over NA, even if you weren't by definition an "alcoholic" because you may find NA too triggering. This is a highly individual experience, however, and whatever gets you through the door is all that matters. The 12 Steps may seem a little alien at first, but the only step you need to focus on is your desire to quit using. Give it a try. I got clean in ninety days of rehab, but it was going to AA/NA that kept me clean six years later.

www.aa.org
www.na.org

Also, I'd like to comment on your remark about not being prone to alcoholism and therefore being able to drink alcohol. I would be careful about that. Alcohol is a drug, too, and even though you're not an alcoholic per se, drinking feeds into the same neural circuit as using heroin, oxys, etc. Many an addict has relapsed on their drug of choice because of the effects of alcohol on their addicted brain. Even though I was not an alcoholic, when I closely examined my own patterns, I learned that prior to my drug use I had experienced a period of heavier than normal drinking. I had to give it up, even though it was not my drug of choice: no booze, no weed, no benzos, no nothing.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Thank you for your support. I've actually been to NA before and am familiar with it. It helped a little, but since I am not religious whatsoever it was a bit annoying in some ways. I also don't like the idea of saying someone can't recover without doing exactly these things. I believe that people who stop using are strong and deserve the credit of believing their will did it, not the will of god.

 

[Missykins]

Thank you for your support. I've actually been to NA before and am familiar with it. It helped a little, but since I am not religious whatsoever it was a bit annoying in some ways. I also don't like the idea of saying someone can't recover without doing exactly these things. I believe that people who stop using are strong and deserve the credit of believing their will did it, not the will of god.

Narcotics Anonymous is not a religious program, but a spiritual one, and the 12 Steps are not rules, but suggestions. There is no divine being you prostrate to determining your recovery. Simply, the fellowship is a group of men and women who help each other get and stay clean by sharing their experience, strength, and hope. They do not say that only those who follow the steps can recover, but rather those who follow the steps can learn to live a life free of drugs by becoming part of something greater than themselves.

Good luck.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

I never thought about it that way. Thank you for clearing that up. I'll try to go to a meeting tonight, although I do worry about the triggering conversation as you said. I feel strong in that I think I can stay away from opiates, but I do realize the possibility of relapse is not something I can ignore. I have been around my doc since being clean as was able to say no, but I know that doesn't mean I'm "cured" by any means.

 

[Missykins]

I never thought about it that way. Thank you for clearing that up. I'll try to go to a meeting tonight, although I do worry about the triggering conversation as you said. I feel strong in that I think I can stay away from opiates, but I do realize the possibility of relapse is not something I can ignore. I have been around my doc since being clean as was able to say no, but I know that doesn't mean I'm "cured" by any means.

Which is many addicts find AA a better choice for them than NA, especially in the beginning.

Willpower is only going to take you so far. A lot of addicts who try to "white knuckle" their way through it end up relapsing after six months. The steps are really about becoming a better person, by recognizing the things about yourself you need to change, making amends to those you hurt while using and regaining their trust through your actions and not just your words, by continuing to take an inventory of your character, always striving to be a more humble and compassionate person, and giving back to the community through service. There is a great deal of emphasis upon mindfulness and meditation, even if they don't call it that. How bad can that be?

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Sounds good to me. You've convinced me to start going back to NA, even if it is triggering I feel that I will be able to relate more. I'm sure I've hurt/worried my friends that don't use when I was bad on Opana so making amends with them is priority number one. They've helped me in so many ways and are a huge part of the reason I'm clean right now.

The person who I feel the most sorry for is my girlfriend, who was the only real eye witness to my use. She would stay up all night worried while I was using tremendous amounts. She stuck with me through it all and is insanely proud of my progress so far. No one thought it was possible for me to up and quit like I did, not even me, but she always had faith in me. If I'd say I was going to quit my friends would be like good but I'll believe it when I see it. Not her, she backed me 100%. If I said it the first thing she would say is great what can I do to help? She's really amazing and I know I wouldn't be writing this without her.

 

[Serotonin101]

You truly are a lucky individual to have such friends to support you. Also a loving companion helps ease a lot of the mental anguish that can be associated with PAWS (post-acute withdrawal symptoms) such as the depression and anxiety. I'm about 60 days clean off of IV H and feel pretty decent. Sadly before I got this last 30 days (thanks to county jail) I had some unfortunate events. Spent my 21st bday in rehab (without my girlfriend at the time), came home, found out my girl was using again and had to break up with her, all right before valentines day (I had already mailed her card and everything). I'll admit to some smoking and drinking (I strongly detest alcohol and regard it as my LEAST favorite drug by far) but I kept the demons at bay. You are on the right path. Volunteer, do some service work, anything to keep yourself occupied. I've also began working out a lot recently (4-6 days a week) which boosts the bodies production of endorphins and keeps me feeling pretty stable. For me life can feel pretty mundane and boring and thats what gets me down, lack of excitement. Just try to keep busy and maintain a healthy lifestyle. Your body is still recovering so it's up to you to aid it in the process. You did everything in your power (and then some) to destroy your body, now do all you can to rebuild it.
It's funny you mention the DMT thing. The first time I quit opiates about two years ago I smoked DMT quite frequently and it alleviated a lot of the psychological symptoms such as the depression and anxiety. It was calming and serene. I did this everyday during the intense withdrawal periods and I had my longest stretch of being clean off opiates WITHOUT maintenance which is 6 months. In no way am I glorifying my drug history, I just think maybe there's something to DMT and it's affects on the brain. I know it strongly acts on serotonin receptors which could account for that, so maybe that's all that it is. Anyways, best of luck and much love to you. Definitely give NA another go, I know I would not be here today without it.

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Thank you for the awesome reply serotonin.

Congratulations on making it 60 days! Way to go man keep it up! Sorry to hear that things didn't go well but 60 days is something to be proud of.

I do not mean this to glorify DMT in any way, it is not a miracle cure for WDs:
Yeah I went to the beach my non hard drug using friends to get clean and we smoked DMT every single night for a week straight. I was in the worst part of WDs at this point and it took away the anxiety and depression temporarily. Strange too cause the last thing I wanted was to trip on something like acid but DMT was fine.

 

[Miss Kirsty]

You are an inspiration!!! Itrs just unreal what you have done...Im on 80mg per day of methadone and i am way too scared to cold turkey...I have cold turkied from a massive opiate habit years ago and i swear i was close to death...Concidering i had no weight on me at the time from heavy use, my body had no back up fat...so when i cold turkied and lost 7kgs in the 20 days of vomiting and shitting my self, i weighed just 35 kgs...I was skeletal...
You sir, are my fucking hero!!!!

 

[FordRiverFailed]

Thank you for the encouraging response. Almost to day 30 of being clean and my head is starting to feel right again.

Sorry to hear that you are struggling with weight, I wish you all the best and want you to get healthy again. If you need someone to talk to or just some encouraging words feel free to post in here or pm me. I like to help and I can certainly relate to the struggles of opiate addiction.

 

[stardust.hero]

FRF that is awesome. Day 30 is a good day. I remember when I started hitting about a month and I just could tell in the morning. My bed for once felt comfortable. I didn't have to jump out immediately in pain and throw myself into the shower to keep my mind off it. Instead of waiting for (what it felt like) the blood to reenter my mummified muscles. You'll start to notice you have more energy in stores and you won't feel worn out anymore in public. The depression will start fading. It's gonna start breaking through. Awesome update .