LivingOnValium
Bluelighter
Newmoonrecord said:
Stomach acid would convert the freebase to HCl anyway when ingested.
Edit: the freebase is an oil. It wouldn't precipetate.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | Tryptamino
Lisdexamfetamine - New ADHD Amphetamine Coming Soon
- Thread starter sww
- Start date
Stomach acid would convert the freebase to HCl anyway when ingested.
Edit: the freebase is an oil. It wouldn't precipetate.
correction
First, lisdexamfetamine is just Lysine (an essential amino acid that the body does not produce which is also sold as a supplement in most stores) coupled to dextroamphetamine. Plain and simple. What you were suggesting was that there was levo-amphetamine as well which would be amphetamine (d,l-amphetamine). Much like Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate) is to Focalin (d-methylphenidate, the more active isomer), amphetamine (d,l-amphetamine) is to dextroamphetamine (d-amphetamine), also the more active isomer.
Moving on...
From the Vyvanse prescribing information:
/--SNIP--
In a human abuse liability study, when equivalent oral doses of 100 mg lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and 40 mg immediate release d-amphetamine sulfate were administered to individuals with a history of drug abuse, lisdexamfetamine 100 mg produced subjective responses on a scale of “Drug Liking Effects” “Amphetamine Effects”, and “Stimulant Effects” that were significantly less than d-amphetamine immediate release 40 mg. However, oral
administration of 150 mg lisdexamfetamine produced increases in positive subjective responses on these scales that were statistically indistinguishable from the positive subjective responses produced by 40 mg of oral immediate-release d-amphetamine and 200 mg of diethylpropion (C-IV).
/--SNIP--
Extras.. .
(DAMP; D-AMP; d-AMP for short when used over and over in medical journals and drug trials). In case you were wondering, d-methamphetamine HCl; N-methamphetamine is written short-hand as d-MeAmp; d-MeAMP..
EDIT:
Apparently I didn't read your dosages correct. Yet your proof is in the PI snippit provided above
I thought that over too, the large dosages.
Citing Wikipedia's page on dextroamphetamine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine ):
Vyvanse is available as capsules, in three strengths: 30 mg, 50 mg, and 70 mg. A 30 mg-strength Vyvanse capsule is molecularly equivalent to 8.88 mg dextroamphetamine. However, this molecular equivalence would only hold true as a bioequivalence ratio if: the dimesylate salt instantly dissolved resulting in the complete dissociation of lisdexamfetamine ions, and then the covalent amide bond of every lisdexamfetamine molecule immediately underwent hydrolysis. In fact, being a prodrug, lisdexamfetamine has different properties than dextroamphetamine; for instance, lisdexamfetamine is metabolised in the gastrointestinal tract, while dextroamphetamine's metabolism is hepatic (processed by the liver). [ # ^ FDA Approval of Vyvanse Pharmacological Reviews Pages 18 and 19 ]
However, on Wikipedia's dextroamphetamine page, it states;
A 25 mg strength Vyvanse capsule is molecularly equivalent to 10 mg Dexedrine Spansules (both the aforementioned pharmaceuticals are about 7.425 mg dextroamphetamine).
To sum this all up, you'll never get the same bioequivalence due to the fact that dextroamphetamine sulfate is immediate release and Vyvanse has to go through hydrolysis which brakes apart the lysine from the active ingredient dextroamphetamine. So, even though you can have equal equal molecular equivalence, it still will not be the same because Vyvanse has to go through these stages before the active drug is released.
Sorry for all the redundancy and stuff but I have that clarified the subject.
MODS: If this is a repeat post. please do as you see fit.
Thanks,
dehmmy
enoughorangejuice? said:
First, lisdexamfetamine is just Lysine (an essential amino acid that the body does not produce which is also sold as a supplement in most stores) coupled to dextroamphetamine. Plain and simple. What you were suggesting was that there was levo-amphetamine as well which would be amphetamine (d,l-amphetamine). Much like Ritalin (d,l-methylphenidate) is to Focalin (d-methylphenidate, the more active isomer), amphetamine (d,l-amphetamine) is to dextroamphetamine (d-amphetamine), also the more active isomer.
Moving on...
From the Vyvanse prescribing information:
/--SNIP--
In a human abuse liability study, when equivalent oral doses of 100 mg lisdexamfetamine dimesylate and 40 mg immediate release d-amphetamine sulfate were administered to individuals with a history of drug abuse, lisdexamfetamine 100 mg produced subjective responses on a scale of “Drug Liking Effects” “Amphetamine Effects”, and “Stimulant Effects” that were significantly less than d-amphetamine immediate release 40 mg. However, oral
administration of 150 mg lisdexamfetamine produced increases in positive subjective responses on these scales that were statistically indistinguishable from the positive subjective responses produced by 40 mg of oral immediate-release d-amphetamine and 200 mg of diethylpropion (C-IV).
/--SNIP--
Extras.. .
(DAMP; D-AMP; d-AMP for short when used over and over in medical journals and drug trials). In case you were wondering, d-methamphetamine HCl; N-methamphetamine is written short-hand as d-MeAmp; d-MeAMP..
EDIT:
Apparently I didn't read your dosages correct. Yet your proof is in the PI snippit provided above
I thought that over too, the large dosages.
Citing Wikipedia's page on dextroamphetamine ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextroamphetamine ):
Vyvanse is available as capsules, in three strengths: 30 mg, 50 mg, and 70 mg. A 30 mg-strength Vyvanse capsule is molecularly equivalent to 8.88 mg dextroamphetamine. However, this molecular equivalence would only hold true as a bioequivalence ratio if: the dimesylate salt instantly dissolved resulting in the complete dissociation of lisdexamfetamine ions, and then the covalent amide bond of every lisdexamfetamine molecule immediately underwent hydrolysis. In fact, being a prodrug, lisdexamfetamine has different properties than dextroamphetamine; for instance, lisdexamfetamine is metabolised in the gastrointestinal tract, while dextroamphetamine's metabolism is hepatic (processed by the liver). [ # ^ FDA Approval of Vyvanse Pharmacological Reviews Pages 18 and 19 ]
However, on Wikipedia's dextroamphetamine page, it states;
A 25 mg strength Vyvanse capsule is molecularly equivalent to 10 mg Dexedrine Spansules (both the aforementioned pharmaceuticals are about 7.425 mg dextroamphetamine).
To sum this all up, you'll never get the same bioequivalence due to the fact that dextroamphetamine sulfate is immediate release and Vyvanse has to go through hydrolysis which brakes apart the lysine from the active ingredient dextroamphetamine. So, even though you can have equal equal molecular equivalence, it still will not be the same because Vyvanse has to go through these stages before the active drug is released.
Sorry for all the redundancy and stuff but I have that clarified the subject.
MODS: If this is a repeat post. please do as you see fit.
Thanks,
dehmmy
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Sentimental
Bluelighter
I can't stand Amphetamines. No sleep, no hunger, not really a high, just makes me wanna do nothing.
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ranunky said:
It's a simple amide hydrolysis. Crush pill, add excess HCl and heat for 10 minutes, then continue to heat it to drive any left over HCl off. Stir into OJ (not necessary), swallow.
Yes you can snort it, but it will not get you high. It needs to be hydrolysed in your gut to be psychoactive. 8)
I have a 200 page application to the FDA from Shire. It states under abuse liability that if you snort the powder straight up, you will get 5% dextroamphetamine which is worthless like you said. Just thought people should know... Officially in clinical studies.
If anyone is interested in the 200 page pdf, just hit me up with a private message.
dehmmy
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rave23
Bluelighter
I don't know where i hear that one, but it would prevent me from sniffing ANYTHING.
Put a tiny tiny dose of Capsaicin in the pill. Like in the center so it doesn't come in contact with your mucus membranes when you swallow it normaly. Once it's in your stomach the Capsaicin won't do much to you.
But crushing it and snorting it, not to mention IV? Fuck no, that would be one helluva burn!
Put a tiny tiny dose of Capsaicin in the pill. Like in the center so it doesn't come in contact with your mucus membranes when you swallow it normaly. Once it's in your stomach the Capsaicin won't do much to you.
But crushing it and snorting it, not to mention IV? Fuck no, that would be one helluva burn!
Sentimental said:
It's a shame because the clarity of thought is superior to that of Ritalin. At least for me. However, as you stated above, I completely agree. When I tried d-MeAMP (d-methamphetamine) it had less side effects but was amped up way to much. When I take Ritalin my thought process gets cloudy (due to the levo isomer) and my focus jumped from one thing to another. In every case, it is not the task I'm supposed to be doing. I tried Focalin at low dose (5mg) and it did nothing. I was on Ritalin 20mg QID [4 times daily] (over the recommended dose of 60mg/day) and at one point I was taking that plus Focalin 5mg QID which is supposedly twice the equimoler dose of Ritalin. So, 5mg Focalin is said to be in the ball park of 10mg Ritalin. Same thing when switching to dextroamphetamine from Ritalin. The dose is cut in half. I'm curious as to the stimulant properties of diethylpropion (also known as diethylcathinone) which is a schedule IV substance. Wellbutrin/Zyban happens to be an analogue of it.
Having ADHD NOS (Not Otherwise Specified) sucks. Pharm. companies come up with retarded drugs but can't produce a simple stimulant without nasty side effects. they've had at least a 100 years!
bleh
dehmmy
qwe
Bluelight Crew
is there any way to increase the rate of hydrolysis of lisdex to dexamp in the body?
rave23
Bluelighter
^^^ well that's a nice first post Welcome here! Keep up the good work!
// what's NRP?
Welcome here! Keep up the good work!// what's NRP?
center
Ex-Bluelighter
I'm pretty sure this will have too many peripheral, levo-isomer based effect to be enjoyable. Quote me on it.
oh my god, you guys just made me remember of something, I remember when I went to the doctor and he knew I was recovering from OxyContin addiction and he prescribed me tramadol for migranes and told me it was a "non-narcotic" painkiller...
Then about a week ago I was reading an arthritus magazine and it was talking about tramadol XR or some shit, and then I read about it and it was talking about how it is an opioid and that it has addictive potiental and I was like SHIT I had this drug and didn't even want to take it!
Hahahaha I never new it was an OPIOID, until up to a week ago, I wonder why my doctor was not aware of this.
Then about a week ago I was reading an arthritus magazine and it was talking about tramadol XR or some shit, and then I read about it and it was talking about how it is an opioid and that it has addictive potiental and I was like SHIT I had this drug and didn't even want to take it!
Hahahaha I never new it was an OPIOID, until up to a week ago, I wonder why my doctor was not aware of this.
center
Ex-Bluelighter
^^^ LOL?
We're talking about amphetamines.
We're talking about amphetamines.
rave23
Bluelighter
i was kinda thinking the same thing, but let baked guys be baked. I am about to be... I swear this morning your post-count said 2,600... that is nuts man.
I went from the Dextrostat tabs for ADHD (120 mg per day, legitimately prescribed at that dose too) to 210 mg of Vyvanse when they had the free coupon deal and Vyvanse did nothing for me at all... I didn't notice the medication at all I was still having the racing thoughts and the whole nine yards.
center
Ex-Bluelighter
^ Good move. It's nice to see Greenlighters adhering to the rules!
+1 borntorun!
+1 borntorun!
center
Ex-Bluelighter
I'd be happy to.