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Life is a test

Iblis said:
Some dude died on a cross just like the rest of the criminals Rome had prosecuted.

It’s not hard to realize the belief God died is absolutely absurd, a God who didn’t even know the hour or how many figs fell off a tree and prayed to another God.

I rest my case.
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Ok thank you for your answer

Good luck with that
 
I’m not sure why you started this thread. You said you didn’t want to debate but wanted people’s thoughts on this subject, but then you have been intolerant to anyone else’s views/beliefs but your own.
 
Iblis said:
Perhaps in my Life it is the most important thing because the text spoke to me fulfilling some void that’s been bothering me for many years.

There is a point but not in your mind, not everyone sees life the same way.

I get it you probably hate Islam and the Muslims but there is no need to project this here on a spirituality sub and throw some shade at the founder of Islam being a charlatan, totally unnecessary and doesn’t contribute to honest and ethical discourse
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Firstly, I didn't realise you were a Muslim until you said.

Secondly, I don't hate Muslims, but I do consider Islamic ideology to be particularly insidious, even more so than Catholicism. Basically, i have a very dim view of the corporate religions that have been bastardised for control and profit

Thirdly, my reply was simply meant as friendly advice to not be taken in by the teachings of people that may or may not have existed 100s or 1000s of years ago.

Fourthly, regarding a later post of yours where you state that "Atheism is a declaration of arrogance". Actually, there are none so arrogant as those who blindly follow that which cannot be proven. Rather like flat earthers...

FWIW, I only act like an atheist when interacting with 'believers'. Most of the time I am agnostic in these matters as none of us can really know the truth until the time comes. But I prefer to wait to find out rather than hang on to the words of the many false 'prophets' that have blighted our history.

Finally, if you want to promote Islam as a religion of virtue, tolerance and peace (as I'm sure that you do), maybe try not using an avatar of a middle Eastern looking dude holding an automatic weapon. I don't care if it's merely a character from your favourite game or whatever, it's not a good look and merely reinforces stereotypes.

Just sayin' ;)
 
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Iblis said:
Oh there is everything wrong with Atheism and Atheists this needs to be said plainly and without apology.

You think your position is the pinnacle of reason, the default of the intelligent mind, the brave rejection of fairy tales.
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No I do not and you have managed to insult before making any kind of point. (Who presumes they operate from the pinnacle of reason - that is arrogance; you do grasp the word)

Iblis said:
But what you're really committed to is willful, unreasonable doubt. You're not skeptics you're trolls, professional contrarians whose entire intellectual posture is built on fabricating doubt where none is warranted, just to feel clever.

Look at the obvious the universe screams design, order, purpose. By Occam's razor alone the simplest explanation is usually correct belief in a Creator is the straightforward, rational conclusion. Yet you twist yourselves into absurd pretzels inventing ever more convoluted, outlandish alternatives multiverses popping into existence from nothing, infinite regressions of uncaused causes, blind chance somehow producing conscious beings who can ponder their own existence. That's not intelligence; that's needless absurdity. Being pointlessly, absurdly contrarian isn't a sign of intellect it's a sign of someone misusing their intellect just to be difficult.
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Really it seems like you are committed to willful ignorance by the amount of presumptions you made about me here.

I think saying Occam's razor would be "God created us all" is a fallacy. How is that the simplest explanation?

I do not twist myself into pretzels -- I believe in evolution. I am quite interested in string theory -- even moreso "Observation effect" (Check my posts I push that stuff every chance I get)

Sure I am unintelligent absurd and contrarian because I do not believe the same things as you -- w/e

I happen to have faith and be a catholic who prays most days. I cannot agree with EVERYTHING in the bible (Nor can you as it is famously contradictory at points). I don't think everyone not christian is going to hell -- that feels silly.

"You never heard of Jesus cuz you were born in the wrong part of the world/with the wrong people?" ETERNAL DAMNATION. Now that feels close minded and illogical; I expect more out of the big man.

*Evolution, string theory, multiverses....not threatening to my belief's at all..... All things will be revealed with time and I have an open mind -- I believe science (In some departments such as "observation effect" could bridge science and religion)

Iblis said:
And the hypocrisy? You claim to champion reason, logic, humanity, progress yet where are the atheists flooding into the care professions, sacrificing for others, building communities grounded in genuine compassion?
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So I am a hypocrite because atheists are not flooding into care professions. Here is where I call you a bad faith actor and ask you to PROVIDE EVIDENCE ATHEISTS ARE ENTERING CARE PROFESSIONS AT A SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER RATE.

I am not a belieber in that one...and it is your only factual point in the whole rant; so MAKE IT

Iblis said:
Your sophistry falls flat when your actions don't match the rhetoric. You demand everyone frame reality through your atheistic secular lens, treating it as neutral and superior, then cry "divisive" when a Muslim refuses to play along. No your framework isn't neutral it's imposed, it's biased, it's the ideology of the West masquerading as default rationality.
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You made so many false assumptions about me it makes it hard to respond. I am not an atheist and I do not believe any religion to be neutral or superior. When did I cry "Divisive" about a muslim not playing along (and what were they not playing along with?)

I try my best to be neutral and unbias -- but anyone saying they are completely void of any kind of bias (subconscious or otherwise) is a fckin liar straight up. Again I never made such claims -- nor gave you any framework of mine?
Iblis said:
Islam offers a rich, intellectually fertile soil—1,400 years of Shari’ah, governance, philosophy, ethics that dwarfs the barren landfill of secular atheism. You reject it not because it's irrational, but because accepting it would shatter your contrived superiority complex. You're not freethinkers; you're trapped in a performative denial, committed to the most objectively ludicrous position imaginable: that everything came from nothing, for no reason, leading to beings who invent meaning while denying the obvious Source of it all.
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Thanks for thinking I have a superiority complex! I do not think my beliefs are worth any more or less than the next person. You seem to feel superior to atheists, correct? Tell me that tale about hypocrisy again please...
Iblis said:
So keep your unreasonable doubt. I'll stick with what's evident, coherent, and grounded in millennia of proven wisdom. The charade of debating Atheists is futile not because faith fears reason, but because your "reason" fears facing what's plain to anyone not invested in absurdity. Wake up or stay absurd. Your choice
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Yea noone was trying to convert you my fellow. I could give a flying shit less what you believe (and that SHOULD BE A TWO WAY STREET).

Than the classic "I refuse to debate because... I have no leg to stand on" tail between legs E-move

Glad we understand eachother better!

Have a blessed day

PS awesome statement about jesus, I wanna show you this drawing I made
 
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Kellsee said:
What happened on the cross?


What was that? And why?

I’m just genuinely asking anyone that wants to answer. I come with love and have no desire to debate. Just asking because I’m trying to understand where people are coming from so I can better understand what they mean by what they say
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He died for our sins, @Kellsee, and we who are scarlet* shall be white again as the driven show.

He died and reality was torn asunder and remade anew.

The Divine Human sacrifice was necessary because Adam and Eve had destroyed the universe by committing The Original Sin.

There are interpretations that say the first human was one being both man and female together that were split into two halves as was the rest of the universe.

This one is not so common in most Christian churches.

But in the End it will be made whole again.

I did not study this. Rather than the Roman Catholic guilt trip, I think what is behind The Fall is the (Neo-)Platonic idea that something is very wrong with the universe or at least with our perception of it?

Why is there suffering in the Universe?

*). No, not Captain Scarlet, or Scarlett O'Hara
 
Chaurus said:
He died for our sins, @Kellsee, and we who are scarlet* shall be white again as the driven show.

He died and reality was torn asunder and remade anew.

The Divine Human sacrifice was necessary because Adam and Eve had destroyed the universe by committing The Original Sin.
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I totally agree!❤️

Thank you for answering me respectfully


I posted that before I was able to see how he’s treating people. After he showed his narcissism I just said chalk it and kept it short and sweet.

All hes gonna do now is belittle and demean so why bother ya know
 
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Wow what a heated debate.

What does it matter what another person believes? I don't get it, as individuals we should know not everyone thinks the same unless you believe you have a right to make other people believe as you do.

On that note I should mention I do not believe in god therefore by definition I am an Atheist. My circle of friends including my wife are devout Christians. I attend church services with my wife, not because I believe the way she does but because we share that time together. I critique everything about worship services from the influence of Christian music to the mechanics of how the services effect believers and nonbelievers psychologically. Believe me when I say there is a difference in the way christian music effect people compared to secular music. I find christian music intrusive because I do not agree with the lyrics.

Oh there is everything wrong with Atheism and Atheists this needs to be said plainly and without apology. That is quite a statement, come on tell us what you really think about Atheism/Atheists? I choose not to believe, aka atheist based on experience and research. I am very curious to learn how you came to this conclusion? Please tell me.
 
^dude said jesus was just another criminal crucified in rome -- obviously shock value is part of the bit

I asked many of the same questions but they went e-tail between they legs "Im not debating this" --- maybe you will have more luck with engagement though.

The main point is just respect what people believe and leave em alone about it (as long as it isn't harming others). Telling atheists they are arrogant and wrong has to be part of the shock value bit.

Occam's razor = God -- That is a real tough sell
Thousands of years of knowledge --- yea thats called a major religion and dont confuse knowledge with mythos and stories mostly meant to keep your morals straight -- not interpret uber literally

Would dude be amazed to hear some people didn't believe in god for thousands of years I wonder? Can't convince me "Everyone" believed ever....
 
Kellsee said:
What happened on the cross?
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A man came to lead by example and was murdered for threatening the state's monopoly on power. Same thing that's happened many times all over the world. Instead of listening to his words people prefer to form a cult of personality around the idea of the man instead of doing any actual work on themselves to get out of this prison.

The goal isn't to waltz through life to end up in paradise. The goal is to escape the maze we're all collectively in. You don't follow Jesus or any of the other prophets. You become a prophet yourself.

People often call God "the father" and claim the father is going to let them stay in his house forever after they die with everlasting joy. This is wrong. A real father would want his children to go out on their own and do better than he did. To take care of themselves.

The goal isn't to gain the favor of some God. It's to become a God yourself.
 
HeadphonesandLSD said:
A man came to lead by example and was murdered for threatening the state's monopoly on power. Same thing that's happened many times all over the world. Instead of listening to his words people prefer to form a cult of personality around the idea of the man instead of doing any actual work on themselves to get out of this prison.

The goal isn't to waltz through life to end up in paradise. The goal is to escape the maze we're all collectively in. You don't follow Jesus or any of the other prophets. You become a prophet yourself.

People often call God "the father" and claim the father is going to let them stay in his house forever after they die with everlasting joy. This is wrong. A real father would want his children to go out on their own and do better than he did. To take care of themselves.

The goal isn't to gain the favor of some God. It's to become a God yourself.
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well sort of...I don't claim to be god, although I claim ownership of my thoughts and actions....and maybe a miracle or two. I can be my god but I cannot be someone else's god. Unless they pray real hard....sarcasm.
 
HeadphonesandLSD said:
The goal isn't to gain the favor of some God. It's to become a God yourself.
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Yes!!!

Everyone is one's own personal god (with a small 'g').

This simply means that you take responsibility for your own actions, rather than deferring that responsibility to a mythical being to excuse your inadequacies.

(And that's religion in a nutshell)
 
Iblis said:
Logically speaking consciousness and the universe shouldn’t exist in the first place. You speak with complete certainty as if you came back from the other side.

Perhaps that’s your experience with religion but that’s not everyone’s experience.

Besides this is a spirituality sub, you should keep your atheism to yourself because It’s not the badge of honor you think it is.
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Destined to be filtered lmao
 
nah I speak with total certainty as if I came back from the other side -- wait I have and I gained little to no insight passed --- "The dope is all fucked up now and I dont wanna die"

Light X said:
Destined to be filtered lmao
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Take careful note of how hard I pushed atheism on that guy -- he really had no choice but to react like that.... lol
 
Well he did not take me up on seeing my drawing -- which may or may not be related to this subject.

Jesus is pretty high up there on the role model list for me.... Nothin against Muhammad either - but when I go to picture him not alot comes to mind. (Pun points)

yea the whole my "Super friend" is better than your "Super friend" thing is pretty silly -- my dad will beat your dad up type shit on another level!
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
If Jesus was 'a criminal', what the hell was Muhammad?

Out of all of the false prophets that didn't exist, Jesus was probably the best role model of them all.
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nvhhg4.png
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
If Jesus was 'a criminal', what the hell was Muhammad?

Out of all of the false prophets that didn't exist, Jesus was probably the best role model of them all.
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You should be the new Jesus. Yeah. I'll vote for you. 💜

Bless Your Soul. Huh.


Please don't hate me because I'm right. ;);)
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Don't sweat it mate. There's no point worrying about the afterlife as you're likely to be disappointed.

Also, don't live your life according to the teachings of charlatans.
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Iblis said:
I get it you probably hate Islam and the Muslims but there is no need to project this here on a spirituality sub and throw some shade at the founder of Islam being a charlatan, totally unnecessary and doesn’t contribute to honest and ethical discourse
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when it comes to the afterlife, we all are charlatans.
because unless someone died and actually came back, there is no way for anyone to know what it's like.
and this goes for all religions.
 
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