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lidocaine -neurological reaction

btdt

Greenlighter
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
14
First off I am sorry this is not your usual drug discussed here. I know that please humor me a moment. I had a neurological reaction to the drug lidocaine while at the dentist. Which resulted in vision problems issues walking for about 3 months. Due to this I have been sent to a drug safety clinic where the next plan is to try giving it to me again... it seems a bit odd that they think this is a good idea. I am not so sure. They say this is the only way to see if there is a true allergy to this drug and it is important as it is used rather often for different things. I am bit unsure to keep this appointment as I fear the reaction. The plan is to try a topical see the reaction if there is none to do an injection.

I had been having issues with dental freezing and no longer had the epinephrine added freezing suspecting it was the problem. The reactions are more and more difficult and always neurological in fashion. I was told the every time the reaction may get worse if I am indeed allergic to this drug. My family doctor says these people are the experts to listen to their advice... but doctors have worked me over before...I am not so trusting. I have no understanding of chemicals none ziltch and I am not going to get that type of educations before I have to decide about this appointment.

I realize this is not the sort of question you generally answer here but I am convinced of the expertise on many people on this board and figure it is worth a shot at asking you... any advice. I have suggested to the dentist who btw does not believe me he only seen part of it most of it went down when I got up and walked outside...seems like walking worked it thru my body... looks at me like I grew a second head. Says he can't treat me because of this allergy... he says I have but have yet to be tested. I had thought he missed the spot and put it in a vein..I may post the entire story as I typed it out shortly after I will put it in a second post for those who may not have time to read the small bits.

Feeling a bit out on a limb and could use some expert advice tho this may not be your typical drug to discuss I am sure you people here are light years ahead of me trying to figure it out on my own

Any advice...ideas.
Thx
 
I have had a ton of dental work and only started having these reactions after quitting effexor xr unless of course I was have negligible reactions all my life ...seems unlikely.
 
there are other anesthetics other than lidocaine that dentists can use. also nitrous oxide

if the resposne is neurological in nature, it is an anxiety reaction caused by a pervious fuckup of a lidocaine injection. normally lidocaine should have no central effects if applied locally (dental anesthetic)
 
I had a neurological reaction to the drug lidocaine while at the dentist. Which resulted in vision problems issues walking for about 3 months.

you don't know this for sure - which is why they are going to do this :

... I have been sent to a drug safety clinic where the next plan is to try giving it to me again... it seems a bit odd that they think this is a good idea. I am not so sure. They say this is the only way to see if there is a true allergy to this drug <----TRUE!! and it is important as it is used rather often for different things. I am bit unsure to keep this appointment as I fear the reaction. The plan is to try a topical see the reaction if there is none to do an injection.

sounds like your dentist is doing EXACTLY as s/he should. This is precisely what an allergy test is.

The reactions are more and more difficult and always neurological in fashion. I was told the every time the reaction may get worse if I am indeed allergic to this drug. My family doctor says these people are the experts to listen to their advice... but doctors have worked me over before...I am not so trusting.

Yes, it is likely that if you are truly allergic to lidocane, or perhaps something in it (an additive, highly likely...) the reaction will become increasingly unpleasant. It is wise of your doctor to tackle this ASAP, and it would be wise for you to keep this appointment. There is nothing wrong with questioning authority [doctors]. One should always be wary and seek advice if you're not totally comfortable with what is happening. However - you need to speak up and ask questions. Say "I'm scared, why are you doing this to me? Why would you be giving me the same drug that you think is causing me an allergic reaction?" Their immediate goal is to comfort your fears, and will respond to you in Lay terms the basics of the procedure. When I was younger, and I went through ANY type of procedure, I politely asked the doctors and or nurses to please explain to me each step they're going through, and weather or not it was going to hurt (I know, I know, it sounds so pansy - but for me, I need to kind of "brace" myself for something painful, and it eases my mind to have them kinda tell me what's going on, as opposed to just laying there in silence wondering wtf they're digging around for...)

I have no understanding of chemicals none ziltch and I am not going to get that type of educations before I have to decide about this appointment.

You don't need any 'educations in chemicals.' I'll explain to you what's likely to happen, and when you get to this appointment, you can tell them you're a bit nervous, and if they could please explain the procedure to you - what are they gonna say, "No, sorry, we don't explain procedures here, we want you to suffer as much as possible so when the clown comes out of the closet with an axe, don't think twice..."

Skin prick test
Typically this test takes about 20 to 40 minutes. Some tests detect immediate allergic reactions, which develop within minutes of exposure to an allergen. Other tests detect delayed allergic reactions, which develop over a period of several days.

A skin prick test, also called a puncture or scratch test, checks for immediate allergic reactions to as many as 40 different substances at once. This test is usually done to identify allergies to pollen, mold, pet dander, dust mites and foods. In adults, the test is usually done on the forearm. Children may be tested on the upper back.

- Allergy skin tests aren't painful. This type of testing uses needles that barely penetrate the skin's surface. You won't bleed or feel more than mild, momentary discomfort aka dang near no pain.
- After cleaning the test site with alcohol, the nurse may draw a small mark on your skin and apply a drop of allergen extract next to each mark. He or she then uses a needle to prick the extracts into the skin's surface. A new needle is used for each allergen. (why a new needle each time? because the sharper it is (new) the less it hurts. If the nurse used the same needle the whole time, pain would exponentially increase with each poke. Old needles are also likely to cause scarring and bruising.)

- To see if your skin is reacting normally, two additional substances are scratched into your skin's surface:
1) Histamine. (Histamine is something that your body produces when you're having an allergic reaction - can result in hives (little red bumps in various areas of the body), localized swelling, etc.) In most people, this substance causes a skin response. If you don't react to histamine, your allergy skin test may not reveal an allergy even if you have one.

2) Glycerin or saline. (saline = salt water) (glycerin aka Glycerol or Glycerine) is also used in tobacco industry as a humectant (makes the tobacco not-so-dry), in food industry as an additive (sugar), in pharmaceutical industry as excipient and formulation aid (as a 'binder' in pills, etc), in chemical substances as intermediate, in cosmetic industry as skin moisturizer and humectant (keeps skin soft), as anti-freezing substance in cell and sperm preservation, as lubricant and hydraulic fluid.
None of these uses have been reported as provoking any side effects to any of the people coming in contact with the substance. In most people, these substances don't cause any reaction. If you do react to glycerin or saline, you may have sensitive skin. Test results will need to be interpreted cautiously to avoid a false allergy diagnosis.

- About 15 minutes after the skin pricks, the nurse observes your skin for signs of allergic reactions. If you are allergic to one of the substances tested, you'll develop a raised, red, itchy bump that looks like a mosquito bite. The nurse will probably measure the size of the bump. None of this is painful.
- After the nurse records the results, he or she will clean your skin with alcohol to remove the marks. Quick and painless. Skin may be a tiny bit tender from being poked or irritated if it's having a reaction to something, but nothing painful.

Skin injection test
You may need a test that uses a needle to inject a small amount of allergen extract just into the skin on your arm (intradermal test) only uncomfortable for a second or two. The injection site is examined after about 15 minutes for signs of an allergic reaction. Your doctor may recommend this test to check for an allergy to insect venom or penicillin.

Patch test
This test doesn't use needles. Instead, an allergen is applied to a patch, which is then placed on your skin. This type of test can detect delayed allergic reactions. It's generally done to see whether a particular substance is causing allergic skin irritation (contact dermatitis). During a patch test, your skin may be exposed to 20 to 30 extracts of substances that can cause contact dermatitis. These can include latex, medications, fragrances, preservatives, hair dyes, metals and resins.
- You wear the patches on your arm or back for 48 hours. The patches are removed when you return to your doctor's office. Irritated skin at the patch site may indicate an allergy.

A few notes about Lidocane:

There are few absolute negative side effects for local injection anesthetics. Allergy to -amide anesthetics such as lidocaine is rare, and when it does occur, it is usually caused by the preservative methylparaben. One way to avoid a potential allergic reaction is to use preservative-free lidocaine, which is available in single-dose vials. History of an allergy to an -ester anesthetic such as procaine (Novocain) is not a contraindication to the use of lidocaine, because they are chemically different, and cross-reaction is rare. Another approach includes using 1% diphenhydramine (Benadryl), which has proved effective in studies.

A few notes about generalized anesthetics...

Common Injectable Anesthetics
Amides
Lidocaine (Xylocaine)
Bupivacaine (Marcaine)
Mepivacaine (Carbocaine)
Prilocaine (Citanest)
Etidocaine (Duranest)

Esters
Procaine (Novocain)
Chloroprocaine (Nesacaine)
Tetracaine (Pontocaine)

-Most local anesthetics rarely produce side effects. The most common complications occur during epidural administration or accidental intravascular administration. (***man, does this suck!!! Happened to me once...looked like I was trying to hide a black softball in my cheek for a month)
If large amounts of local anesthetics are absorbed rapidly, central nervous system (CNS) and cardiovascular toxicity may occur.
- The signs and symptoms of CNS toxicity induced by local anesthetic: Early symptoms, such as a metallic taste, tinnitus, lightheadedness, and confusion, are followed by tremors and shivering. Ultimately, generalized seizures and respiratory arrest may occur.


Hope this helps...good luck! \m/
 
"No, sorry, we don't explain procedures here, we want you to suffer as much as possible so when the clown comes out of the closet with an axe, don't think twice..."
hahaha now that is funny :)
 
there are other anesthetics other than lidocaine that dentists can use. also nitrous oxide

if the resposne is neurological in nature, it is an anxiety reaction caused by a pervious fuckup of a lidocaine injection. normally lidocaine should have no central effects if applied locally (dental anesthetic)

More information does this sound like an anxiety reaction to you... can it last for wks?

"you don't know this for sure - which is why they are going to do this :"

Maybe they do not know for sure but I do know for sure. There is a second part to this that I thought I had posted but it did not show up... my bad...I am sure.
I had never had any reactions even tho I have had more dental work than the average person due to a car crash that broke my jaw in multiple places years ago... no reactions till after I quit taking effexor cold turkey.

At the time he did the injection in the lower left side my right eye immediately closed I could not open it.
We discussed this he said it impossible...yet there I was with my right eye closed. I suggested perhaps due to my broken jay maybe my plumbing in my head is off and he hit something he should not have because something is where it should not be due to surgery? Nope he said nothing is that far off. So I sat there with my eye closed he fixed the small chip that likely didn't need any lidocaine to fix anyway I am not that much of a whimp. I looked in the mirror on standing my right forehead was wrinkle free not usual for me. A long hall awaited me three flights of stairs.. bit light headed.. by the time I got outside my right eye was completey frozen open my left started to flutter open and closed ... driving was out I walked two terrifying blocks home. My right eye froze open hurting from the wind I kept closing it with my had to sooth it.. my left eye fluttering my heart going nuts... holding onto poles I wonder if I dropped if I would be able to tell anyone why. I did not drop made it home... told my son I thought I was having a stroke and asked him to take a video... apparently it did not look so bad from his side and he was not scared. He had made soup and said maybe if I eat it would help it pass... so I did I ate some soup fell into a dead sleep... work hours later... feeling oozy and messed up.. thought sure I had a drug reaction it had lingering effects but would pass if I took things slow and easy. Stayed home the next day did nothing... the day after I had my regular eye apt.. so I went. Told the completely uninterested optometrist of my dental adventure. She did her usual test putting letters on the wall at one point the lighted block was empty.. so I told her so.. she got all excited and broke open some other tests ... don't recall them all but one had boxes and a dot in the middle with my one eye that is what I seen with the other it was all wrong... so she sends me off to the family doctor... so I go the family doctors looks in my eyes ...doesn't like something asks why I am leaning to one side and sends me to the hosp... where they do a cat scan of my brain as they suspect a stroke... no stroke.. off to another doc for eyes forget the title back went around that circle back to a neurologist.. apparently the doc of choice for this sort of thing is a neuro-ophthalmologist... they truly dicked around so long sending me back and forth.. figuring nothing out while I could not walk a straight line... I basically got over the worst of it on my own... which is the best anyway.

I have talked to them about what will happen during the test... I am still scared. I have the prick test ok.. but once that needle comes out hmm not so sure... if it is any worse than last time???? that is the question they have no answer for that ...and for some reason keep going back to how they are prepared for throats closing... I get that but they do not seem prepared for whatever happens to me? I WILL ask again when and if i get there IF they have anything that can stop this particular reaction I had before in case it were to happen again ... sure they can keep me breathing that was not an issue last time protecting my eyesight and my brain are the issue. For me.
I was thinking since people here seem to know about drugs and if the people I have talked to so far know anything they are not spilling... or this is too off the wall they have never heard of it... either way my discussions so far have not been comforting... a) missing something b) paranoid c) to freaked out to see this right..
anything other than answer A means I have some type of issue with this test I need to resolve before I go. Trying to work it thru and figure it out.. and make a decision.
Thanks for your help if this new bit of information opens any caves of wisdom or further thought please reply. Thanks B
Days after the reactions I was trying to recover my balance and health.. I tried walking like I normally would for health and peace... I could not breath properly... felt as if I was wearing another persons glasses as my feet hit the ground wrong.. went off to one side... seen circles around street lights...felt far away... from things just not with it or present.

Lights had either streaks or beams coming off them that went to the ground it was all very disorienting... I do not want that again.. and if they are right it may be worse next time. As I understand it once this starts they have no way to stop it... right? I just have to suck it up again and hope to get well?

No I was not taking any drugs or supplements at the time of this reaction. I had one hell of a time getting off Effexor and since quitting cold turkey after years of use had an ongoing issues with anything even drug like... for a long time after quitting the E I had reactions to food and vitamins. The food issues seem to have cleared as time went on I am 5+ year past quit date of E... Some supplements I tried to help with that withdrawal issues early on magnesium and B vitamins caused reactions for me so I do not touch anything... now that said I do take Vit E as a liver doctor of mine has suggest it may help with liver issues. My liver is fat I was on a diet to treat this issue and taking vit E. I was hit and miss with taurine 500mg ... generally only if I had an unwanted buzz from coffee. The vit E was 400mg he suggested an increase in dose later that year but at this point I was still on 400mg once a day and often missed taking it.
I had an untra sound like test something new to study livers short of a biopsy to see how the liver looked an untrasound of sorts the specific name escapes me ... along with the fatty liver I have stage 2 fibrosis according to that test. I do not fool with drugs of any kind and hate to take even those I have to like antibiotics no booze at all as it is not worth the sick feeling that follows. Post accident previously mentioned I was on pain pills for years then on antidepressants a few others were tried along the way names escape me now as this is 20+years ago. I hit a wall with the Effexor had all kinds of bad issues like withdrawal before I quit it in desperation in 2007. Withdrawal was the hardest thing I have had to live thru so far and I put a high value on my working brain and body after literally years of being not well.
I have not been asked to get the drug I reacted to and it was not offered at the time I reported how serious the reaction was. The reaction was in April 2012 and the testing has been a long time coming but will be in a couple of months. I wonder if he still has the actual vial of medication he used on me.... should I ask for it? According to what he the dentist had to say epinephrine was not part of the formula.
This was the first or second time I had been to this dentist as I had left the last one due to failing confidence it was a huge office I had a different dentist every time and kept having drug reactions... this is how I knew I could not have epi in my shots. The last trip to the dentist I quit I went for a root canal and they gave me several shots of freezing the name of it I did not inquire.. several as in 7-10 shots it would not freeze the tooth so I went to a specialist was put to sleep and had the tooth removed. After the specialist pain and infection continued for a few months until eventually a piece of the jaw bone worked it's way free. It seemed to heal after that then the tooth behind it started aching... this was when I left the old dentist and went to the new... the new dentist sent me directly back to the specialist who removed the second tooth. I was fine till I chipped tooth and went back to have it fixed at this new dentist and this last reaction occurred.

Do you see any possible cause for this reaction that is make clear by the further information ...I am looking for advice on how to proceed in the future.

Also there was a post on the thread I made ( I would go copy it but I am not good at getting around this site yet) suggesting if I had too large a dose of lidocaine in the past it could cause this reaction- I think that is what it said. i will go back and read it again. Could well be the attempt to do the root canal when the several shots of freezing did not take was the time I had way too much... any ideas on that?

Thanks for your advice.
The dentist or actually his receptionist has been extremely cold and not exactly co operative when I try to discuss this with them .. I asked to see him to talk about this reaction after it happened and get some information.. he copied one page I took to my doctor basically said nothing.. the receptionist grudgingly wrote the name of the drug on the paper at my request before I left... lol I have the sense they don't want to deal with me at all.
First saying my experience was impossible and second not wanting to provide the information.. he is not the one sending me for testing my gp is doing the sending and followup ... she decided that after she sent me to emerg for the cat scan.

All this dentist had to say to me which may have been helpful was to go to a dentist who will do normal dental work while I am put to sleep the insurance I have would not cover the only person he knew who did this so that was a dead end. I have found another office that will do this type of work which will be covered by my dental plan only after |I have the testing and it is proven I cannot have freezing. The dental office which will take my plan is in another city so it will mean going to sleep in another city to have dental work and getting back home some how in a groggy state... who said life was not fun...lol

So this is all I can think of to say... thanks for listening. :)
peace B
 
An online acquaintance of mine is allergic to most commonly used local anaesthetics. So I kinda understand how you feel.
How you find something that works for you, because dental work with local anaesthesia is much more pleasant.
 
If this is an anxiety reaction based on having too much lidocaine when they attempted root canal would not freeze... is this now an ongoing issue for me or is it at all time sensitive where say a couple of years out I could use this type freezing?
If this is indeed the case that all these symtpoms were an anxiety reaction should I be expecting this type reaction every time I come into contact with a like substance?
If you understand why this is and how it works will you please explain it to me. I know doctors hate to hear "I found some information on the internet" but I still want to know and still want to discuss this possibility with my doctor. I did not tell either the new dentist or the doctor about the many shots and attempted root canal because I did not know it could be important. If having too much lidocaine is the type of fuck up you mean please help me understand why this would be an ongoing issue. Thanks B
 
pervious fuckup of a lidocaine injection

So let say for the sake of argument that the trip at the dentist where the lidocaine would not work yet they kept injecting more was a fuck up... does this one fuck up forever stay a problem for me... is the effect a permanent thing? If so what can I expect from this test or should I just skip it to avoid more problems.
 
Btdt. I wish we could chat! Reading your thread while searching for MY issues...had a facet block (nerve block of my spine-lower back). Unfortunately i dont react to local anesthesia. It doesnt work. I feel everything. This time he used 5% marcaine and used "a shit load"; his words, not mine. 15 min later i was exhibiting signs of a stroke as well. They were in a panic. It was as if the right side of my face had been shot full of novacaine. The opposite of Bells Palsy, it was contracted. More noticeable to me then them, but still apparent. Symptoms went away after about 12 hours. But? They come back. Frequently. Its been six MONTHS! Ive done some "internet research" and the closest i can come to what it is is hemifacial spasm. Cranial nerve number seven. ONLY. They have no reason why. Im planning on a lidocaine infusion in a couple of weeks to try to help w neuropathic pain. Im nervous! Please look into something called Ehler Danlos syndrome. Feel free to message me if you ever get this message!
 
pjdksmith - Was facial numbness the only symptom? Have you asked a doctor about this at all? Gotten a CT scan/MRI to make sure it wasn't a stroke? More information needed.
I do known all about EDS, and if you have it, not feeling any pain relief from lidocaine is normal, but it isn't associated with any facial numbness, and if you don't have any of the other diagnostic symptoms, that is highly unlikely to be your issue. Symptoms, briefly: notably stretchy skin and/or very hypermobile and painful joints and/or a tendency to organ failure and arterial rupture. That last is scary and harder to check for as a layman, but is genuinely insanely rare and unless you've had a symptom other than the facial numbness, extremely unlikely. So don't panic.
I honestly have no idea what's wrong, but if you're nervous you should be asking your doctor about it. What generally causes your neuropathic pain, do you know? May or may not be related. And what are the circumstances in which the pain tends to come back, is there any pattern to when it shows up that you've noticed? That can also help narrow down causes.
I am not a doctor, by any means, and am not aiming at an answer so much as trying to calm you down a bit, but being able to articulate your symptoms better might help you communicate your worries to your doctor in a way that might help them help you more effectively.
 
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