Stimulants Let's talk about caffeine.

[Keif' Richards]

I've always found it easy to look at this situation in this way. Maybe you will find the same.

If we take all known stimulants and we put them on a spectrum or in some kind of hierarchy, in my mind, we end up with something like this:

Caffeine
-
(Pseudo)ephedrine
-
Propylhexedrine (Benzedrex); the inhalers made for allergies/congestion, the cotton inside of which contains the drug, which is a very mild CNS stimulant
-
Phentermine (Adipex); this isn't a commonly used drug anymore. It's a CNS stimulant used specifically in weight management/obesity
-
(Dex)methylphenidate (Ritalin; Focalin)
-
(Dextro)amphetamine, including mixed salts i.e. "Adderall"
-
Methamphetamine; still a prescription drug, yes, though 99.999% of Methamphetamine use is of the illicit variety.

In my opinion, all of these drugs have the ability to get us feelin "high", despite the label of Caffeine and Pseudoephedrine as "Peripheral Nervous System" stimulants. For a totally naive person, a high dose of Caffeine probably feels like one of us taking an Amphetamine pill. The thing is, I think most people who are self-identified "Caffeine Users', not just a morning cup of coffee type people, use too much Caffeine. Like any drug, they remember the benefits Caffeine used to provide them, this leads them to drink more Caffeine even though they've already crossed the cost-benefit threshold of the drug a long time ago.

For the sake of explanation, I group Ephedrine products as basically right next to Caffeine in terms of intensity, so i'm not gonna devote a ton of writing to it specifically.

Then we have the more common CNS stimulants of the Amphetamine and/or Cathinone classes. These are potent, yes, but they're just like Caffeine at the end of the day. A person can become tolerant to Amphetamine in nearly the exact same way, where the end result has them taking more Amphetamine despite crossing the aforementioned cost-benefit threshold of the drug.

The difference with using too much of these more-potent CNS stimulants is radically different to weak stimulants. You're seriously messing with brain chemistry when you reach a point where Amphetamines no longer work. The symptoms of this sort of thing include the usual jitters and what not, though you start to see symptoms of lost sanity coming into the picture as the person's reality becomes distorted by the Amphetamines. The thing is, with Caffeine, you can easily go from naive to totally tolerant in a couple of weeks. A person's trajectory with something like Amphetamine is going to be months of dosage increases before the drug becomes worthless and the person runs out of steam.

Methamphetamine is at the far end of the spectrum. It's one of the most potent stimulants known to man. Frankly, I don't know that man could easily tolerate a more potent stimulant even if it came into vogue, as Methamphetamine seems to turn out people's bodies and minds at a pretty crazy rate already.

The spectrum I mention is meant to illustrate that all of these stimulants can have a similar function. At the end of the day, I feel they all share similar qualities, with tolerance being a major factor in the perceived potency of each one.

 

[paltatomate]

It's as if you need to learn to recognize it, similarly to what can be the case with amphetamines, and the overall setting, your mood and general well-being may have an impact.

That's true. And like with many other things, the quality is important. And the way it's prepared. Like coffee maker coffee, which for me tastes awful and gives me even heartburn if it's been on the stove for too long. Then there's this French pots (I think it's the same.kr similar to how they prepare coffee in Morocco and other Arabic countries). Colombian coffee is different from Kenian coffee. There also different subspecies of the plants.
So if you try one cup of coffee and like it and give you a good buzz, it doesn't need to happen with another cup, which you drink under different circumstances at another place, and where the beans came from different geographic regions, were processed differently, and the coffee itself prepared differently.
But once you get "your brand" it can be very pleasurable!

 

[DesertHarp]

The amazing thing with caffeine is that it builds very little tolerance. I can drink my two cups of coffee every day and feel exactly the same way, day after day. But stimulants, ranging from caffeine to amphetamines, behave in mysterious ways. I remember always having a cup of coffee when flying or in social settings during my teenage years, and never feeling any significant effect of the caffeine. Then, suddenly some day in my mid twenties, during a social gathering at a cafe with really good coffee, it hit. Since then, coffee has always been my favorite drug. I have never had any pleasure from caffeine pills or the substandard coffee from the coffee machine at work. It's as if you need to learn to recognize it, similarly to what can be the case with amphetamines, and the overall setting, your mood and general well-being may have an impact.

Thanks for explaining that it can take time to recognize the effect. I got me a coffee maker that's programable. Morning is when I'm horribly sluggish. I also bought some caffeine pills. With 90% of the world drinking coffee, I've got to find out what the attraction is.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thanks for explaining that it can take time to recognize the effect. I got me a coffee maker that's programable. Morning is when I'm horribly sluggish. I also bought some caffeine pills. With 90% of the world drinking coffee, I've got to find out what the attraction is.

I have a bit of a personal conspiracy regarding coffee drinking. I believe that nobody in this world actually enjoys the taste of coffee. I believe there was one guy who said he liked it way back in history and this has led to a global conspiracy of people who swear they love the taste of it.

I feel like Coffee tastes like water with crushed up aspirin and a hint of hickory wood thrown on top. I feel like people feel the need to say they "like the flavor" as then they don't need to admit to everyone around them "yes, it's a drug, caffeine is a drug, I take this drug every day, I'm dependent on it for functionality" when they can just say "man that cup of joe really just makes the morning".

I see so many people who "love coffee" who are in reality drinking milkshakes crammed full of fats and refined sugars. It takes as much sugar as the solution can tolerate, combined with heavy cream and a couple dozen "flavor shots" for their "coffee" to be just how they like it. If coffee were so fucking delicious, people would drink black coffee and the idea of coffee requiring sugar and cream to be palatable wouldn't exist.

Turkey has what I would call a more honest relationship with their coffee. There, they have accepted that coffee tastes like shit and they have contrived to make the drink itself as compact and brief as they possibly can. The result is a shot glass of super potent coffee (which is then immediately followed by a chaser, often something sweet).

I'm not a big believer in the idea that different coffee produces these radically different profiles of effects from one another. It's the same with Alcohol for that matter. Sure, there are going to be some small differences from liquor to liquor, but in the end, you're drinking Ethanol and that Ethanol is responsible for 99% of the drink's effects.

Something interesting, is that I often tell people, like my coworkers that I take Caffeine pills and they often are unaware that Caffeine pills exist. They are often like "oh where do you get those?" and I always say at the pharmacy. I think a lot of people really value the idea of knowing how much Caffeine they are taking and of course not having to make coffee every time they need some.

 

[tryptakid]

Does it energize or tranquilizé you?

At this point I feel like it gets the motor turning (coffee) and the green tea keeps the RPMs from bottoming out without redlining either. I can draw upon energy a bit but I rarely feel 'jacked' from that combination.

I recently started using celsius packets before I ride my bike into work and usually drink one throughout the day, progressively diluting it with more water so I always have some caffeine in my water bottle, but the concentration decreases as I'm drinking some and topping it off. I like the stimulation from that especially after a 30 minute somewhat hilly bikeride in the morning.

I've also gotten these caffeine pills that have like, extended release caffeine and caffeine-like additives from an online nootropics vendor that were dynamite, really nice, smooth and long lasting stimulation. I should order some again. I would not mix those with any coffee given how potent they were.

 

[paranoid android]

I like caffiene i usually have about 4 cups of coffee in the morning and 2 or 3 energy drinks throughout the day. I take benzos so anxiety from caffiene isnt a problem unless i ingest a crazy amount. I quite like caffine mixed with a benzo in the morning actually the combo wakes me up and takes away my anxiety

 

[paranoid android]

I have a bit of a personal conspiracy regarding coffee drinking. I believe that nobody in this world actually enjoys the taste of coffee. I believe there was one guy who said he liked it way back in history and this has led to a global conspiracy of people who swear they love the taste of it.

I feel like Coffee tastes like water with crushed up aspirin and a hint of hickory wood thrown on top. I feel like people feel the need to say they "like the flavor" as then they don't need to admit to everyone around them "yes, it's a drug, caffeine is a drug, I take this drug every day, I'm dependent on it for functionality" when they can just say "man that cup of joe really just makes the morning".

I see so many people who "love coffee" who are in reality drinking milkshakes crammed full of fats and refined sugars. It takes as much sugar as the solution can tolerate, combined with heavy cream and a couple dozen "flavor shots" for their "coffee" to be just how they like it. If coffee were so fucking delicious, people would drink black coffee and the idea of coffee requiring sugar and cream to be palatable wouldn't exist.

Turkey has what I would call a more honest relationship with their coffee. There, they have accepted that coffee tastes like shit and they have contrived to make the drink itself as compact and brief as they possibly can. The result is a shot glass of super potent coffee (which is then immediately followed by a chaser, often something sweet).

I'm not a big believer in the idea that different coffee produces these radically different profiles of effects from one another. It's the same with Alcohol for that matter. Sure, there are going to be some small differences from liquor to liquor, but in the end, you're drinking Ethanol and that Ethanol is responsible for 99% of the drink's effects.

Something interesting, is that I often tell people, like my coworkers that I take Caffeine pills and they often are unaware that Caffeine pills exist. They are often like "oh where do you get those?" and I always say at the pharmacy. I think a lot of people really value the idea of knowing how much Caffeine they are taking and of course not having to make coffee every time they need some.

Agent cooper would strongly disagree with you on the black coffee thing. I also sometimes drink black coffee but im guilty of using sugar and cream usually

 

[Conky]

Getting an adderall script to potentiate my coffee

Try hordenine

Naturally occuring MAO-B substrate

It used to be easily available back in 2014ish

Unfortunately it seems to have been banned or at least shadow banned and is now unavailable from virtually all supplement sources.

Shame.

 

[Neuroprotection]

Wondering if the caffeine is somehow responsible for the non-effectiveness of modafinil I experienced in the last few weeks. Though I didn't change the amount/dose of neither.

Caffeine will certainly interact with modafinil as it would with most other stimulants. i’ve read quite a few anecdotes of some doctors urging newly diagnosed ADHD patients to completely withdraw from and avoid caffeine before they prescribe them an amphetamine. interestingly, this isn’t to avoid negative interactions on the heart or blood pressure. rather, some doctors believe caffeine disrupts the ability of amphetamine to enhance focus and changing the effect into a scatterbrained and anxious/apathetic state.

The same could be true for modafinil.

 

[Neuroprotection]

I’ve been asking questions like this for a long time and got many wonderful responses from people on this site. i’ve only ever used caffeine and very occasionally, nicotine, but no other stimulant drugs, so I can’t speak from experience. however, I think these are the key takeaway points of information people have given to me.
1-caffeine is quite a strong stimulant which shares with the amphetamines the ability to promote wakefulness as well as suppress appetite and elevate mood. however, caffeine is much less potent in this regard.
2-The central psychomotor activation, possible focus/motivation enhancement, and highly rewarding effects of psychostimulants make them qualitatively different from caffeine. this means we shouldn’t think of caffeine as simply a weak form of amphetamine. it’s pharmacology, is completely different since caffeine mainly works by blocking adenosine receptors to increase general neural excitability throughout the brain, but with minimal effects on dopamine. in contrast, amphetamines and methylphenidate act specifically on dopamine and noradrenaline to increase the concentration in the synapse. they do this especially well in certain areas of the brain such as the reward and cognition centres producing dramatic effects.
My advice to you is:
Caffeine is overall much safer for long-term use and whilst it has potential to cause physical dependence, it does not cause addiction in the true psychological sense.
On the other hand, do not expect caffeine to be an equal replacement for methylphenidate, they are simply not comparable. I also don’t think you should fear speaking to your doctor about your thoughts. whilst I’m not sure about the sustainability of long-term methylphenidate as a morning booster, if it’s the only thing helping your depression it might be worth going back on it.

 

[DesertHarp]

I have a bit of a personal conspiracy regarding coffee drinking. I believe that nobody in this world actually enjoys the taste of coffee. I believe there was one guy who said he liked it way back in history and this has led to a global conspiracy of people who swear they love the taste of it.

I feel like Coffee tastes like water with crushed up aspirin and a hint of hickory wood thrown on top. I feel like people feel the need to say they "like the flavor" as then they don't need to admit to everyone around them "yes, it's a drug, caffeine is a drug, I take this drug every day, I'm dependent on it for functionality" when they can just say "man that cup of joe really just makes the morning".

I see so many people who "love coffee" who are in reality drinking milkshakes crammed full of fats and refined sugars. It takes as much sugar as the solution can tolerate, combined with heavy cream and a couple dozen "flavor shots" for their "coffee" to be just how they like it. If coffee were so fucking delicious, people would drink black coffee and the idea of coffee requiring sugar and cream to be palatable wouldn't exist.

Turkey has what I would call a more honest relationship with their coffee. There, they have accepted that coffee tastes like shit and they have contrived to make the drink itself as compact and brief as they possibly can. The result is a shot glass of super potent coffee (which is then immediately followed by a chaser, often something sweet).

I'm not a big believer in the idea that different coffee produces these radically different profiles of effects from one another. It's the same with Alcohol for that matter. Sure, there are going to be some small differences from liquor to liquor, but in the end, you're drinking Ethanol and that Ethanol is responsible for 99% of the drink's effects.

Something interesting, is that I often tell people, like my coworkers that I take Caffeine pills and they often are unaware that Caffeine pills exist. They are often like "oh where do you get those?" and I always say at the pharmacy. I think a lot of people really value the idea of knowing how much Caffeine they are taking and of course not having to make coffee every time they need some.

What you're saying really resonates with me. I fail to see where there is anything delicious about coffee. I started drinking it unsweetened, as a beverage to wash down a rich, sweet desert after dinner. I do find the flavor interesting when it is made from freshly ground beans. I have always enjoyed the aroma of coffee brewing. But I would never drink a cup of coffee all on its own . . . only as an accompaniment to sweet food.

Well . . . I too got the bright idea of purchasing caffeine tablets (200 mg.) Then I read about how nicotine is also a stimulant and can possibly reduce depression. So I bought some nicotine gum (4 mg.). Lots of people find that coffee and a cigarette gets their fire started and energizes them. I wanted to experience that.

Today I was very sluggish, so I swallowed a caffeine pill and, then, chewed the nicotine gum. 30 minutes later, I was dizzy and very nauseated. It was definitely from those two substances, as I was fine before ingesting them. Previously, I had tried each on its own, with no bad effect. However, after having the two together, I felt awful sick and had to lie down for two hours. Not the outcome I was looking for. I won't do that again.

 

[caseface99]

Caffeine mixed with phenylethylamine = major win

 

[Neuroprotection]

Caffeine mixed with phenylethylamine = major win

Personally, I wouldn’t do that. I think people generally add caffeine to potentiate phenylethylamine because it is broken down so rapidly and would feel too mild on its own. however, if you take a selective MAOB inhibitor like selegyline beforehand, you can experience a very powerful short-lived rush followed by prolonged afterglow from phenylethylamine. I don’t recommend this combination for long-term or especially high dose use because it’s apparently very addictive. however, if you did choose to try it, you definitely won’t be allowed to use caffeine at the same time due to hypertensive crisis and other cardiovascular complications. however, you wouldn’t need caffeine anyway, plus in my opinion, caffeine should never be combined with traditional dopaminergic stimulants as it increases risk of negative effects

 

[Neuroprotection]

I'd say give it a shot, starting with maybe a cup or two and see how you feel.

I know I am obsessed with this question, but if you have tried traditional dopaminergic stimulants like amphetamine, how would you say caffeine compares to them.
I think this will help OP Better know what to expect.

 

[Rectify]

500 mg of caffeine ('calf fein') is subjectively equivalent to 20 mg amphetamine. I like to drink 4 cups of real coffee a day, in the morning. I add 3 or 4 cups of ice to make the drink easier to chug.

 

[Neuroprotection]

500 mg of caffeine ('calf fein') is subjectively equivalent to 20 mg amphetamine. I like to drink 4 cups of real coffee a day, in the morning. I add 3 or 4 cups of ice to make the drink easier to chug.

Thank you for that. i’ve taken up to 600 MG of caffeine all at once when I bought some caffeine pills at university, and the effects were quite interesting. for example, Anxiety wasn’t actually noticeable, but there also wasn’t any euphoria. I did however experience positive mood and optimism along with a strange sense of calm for several hours.

 

[mauve]

Apparently an average dose of modafinil which is 200mg equates to about 600mg of caffeine in its effects...

 

[Leodaris]

I'm in desperate need of a stimulant. I used to be on Ritalin to help with depression and sluggishness that was worst in the morning. I hesitate to ask my current doctor to order it. Since I'm on Vicodin, he might not want to order another "controlled substance." So I was thinking, " What about good old caffeine?"

I drink about 4 cups of coffee in a typical month. I just never was into coffee. But, all my life, I've been hearing about how the caffeine in coffee is supposed to be great for perking you up. So I'm wondering what members here might have to say about it. Bluelighters tend to be quite savvy about what a given substance does or doesn't do. Plus, those who have used various stimulants can knowledgeably compare them. So I'd like to tap into this store of experience for a bit of feedback. Is the caffeine in coffee really a significant stimulant?

Caffeine can be gotten from other sources, including OTC pills. I guess it's in some "energy" drinks also. Are there any caffeine users out there who can say it actually benefits them in a noticeable way? Exactly what do you get out of it? How much does it take to have an impact? Is there such a thing as too much?

Caffeine is indeed a widely used and well-documented stimulant, affecting both the central nervous system and metabolism, leading to increased alertness, decreased fatigue, and in some cases, an enhanced mood. It's present in coffee, tea, energy drinks, chocolate, and available in over-the-counter (OTC) pills. Its effects and the response to it can vary significantly from person to person, depending on factors like individual tolerance, metabolism, and even genetic predispositions.

Benefits of Caffeine​

1. Increased Alertness and Concentration: Many people report that caffeine helps them feel more awake and improves their ability to concentrate and focus on tasks.
2. Enhanced Physical Performance: Caffeine is known to mobilize fatty acids from fat tissues, leading to improved physical performance in endurance sports or activities.
3. Mood Enhancement: For some, caffeine can act as a mild antidepressant by increasing the release of certain neurotransmitters in the brain, such as dopamine.

Comparison with Other Stimulants​

Caffeine is milder compared to prescription stimulants like Ritalin (methylphenidate) or amphetamines. It doesn't produce the same level of euphoria or intense focus but is less likely to cause severe side effects or dependency when used responsibly. Its accessibility and social acceptance make it a go-to choice for a daily boost for many people.

Usage and Dosage​

The effects of caffeine can start within 15 to 45 minutes of consumption and may last for several hours, depending on your metabolism. A moderate dose, considered to be around 200 to 400 milligrams per day for most adults (about 2 to 4 cups of brewed coffee), is generally safe and can provide the benefits mentioned above without significant adverse effects.

Potential Downsides and Overuse​

1. Tolerance and Dependence: Regular use can lead to tolerance, requiring higher doses to achieve the same effects, and some people may experience dependence.
2. Withdrawal Symptoms: Abrupt cessation after regular use can lead to withdrawal symptoms, including headaches, irritability, and fatigue.
3. Health Risks: Excessive intake (typically above 400 mg/day for adults) can lead to side effects, including anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, digestive issues, and in extreme cases, heart palpitations or arrhythmias.

Personal Experience and Feedback​

Many caffeine users find it beneficial for enhancing alertness and improving mood, especially in moderation. It's often used as a reliable pick-me-up to start the day or combat the afternoon slump. However, individual experiences with caffeine can vary widely, and it's essential to listen to your body and adjust your intake accordingly.

Given your hesitation to discuss prescription stimulants with your doctor due to concerns about combining them with Vicodin, exploring caffeine as an alternative might be a reasonable first step. However, it's still advisable to have a conversation with your healthcare provider about your energy levels, depression, and the best strategies to manage them, including the potential use of caffeine or other options. They can offer guidance tailored to your health profile and medication regimen, ensuring your safety and well-being.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Guarana. Is the best form. Especially with the heating of the planet, it has an cooling effect.

 

[Carpetshark]

Sorry if this was already mentioned; YERBA MATE rocks. Get tea bags or tea in bulk so you can make your own strength. It tastes like hay or mowed lawn, but it's a different type of caffeine and it's harder to build up a tolerance. Sold at most major grocery stores and vitamin shops.