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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Legalisation - we need to push it everywhere we can

Who will the police and media point the finger at if another pretty young intelligent girl from a well to do family od's because she eats all of her drugs from the fear of getting caught with a couple of pills etc that she is carrying into stereosonic festival in Syd due to the heavy police presence at this festivals front gates...
 
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Lol. :D Perlease people, lets not let this conversation degenerate too far. It does put an added meaning to those red rockstars however.

It's obvious that the politicians, police and media would jump all over another death so soon with renewed vigour as it fits their agenda. Be safe and sensible people.

Not only would there be a shit-ton of tax raised - but a shit-ton of savings from law enforcement. This would be more than enough to fund better education and more medical services for those that cannot control their appetite. (Not everyone is obese, an alcoholic or chain smoker).

I also strongly believe that having a more mature, pragmatic and open attitude towards drug use in particular would reduce the stigma attached to its use allowing those that need help to actually seek it more readily with out fear of shame or judgment. Imagine it: real, honest and useful information without sensationalism...
 
Why am I reading posts by onethousandwords on every page of this thread? His arguments are pointless, extremely short-sighted, ignorant and fundamentally based on assumptions AKA theories he makes up AKA talking out of his ass....please, with a thread of this importance, keep your ideas that you come up with to yourself and GTFO.

Anyway, it is good such a thread has been started. I have been thinking of ways on how to get something like this going for ages....so what is the go? Which website should we visit and which political party should we get behind?

Also, is there any possibilities in having some sort of protest or something one day? Maybe getting help from experienced activists from the LBG scene or green people? Please, post more....
 
Most cops I know use cannabis busts to simply boost their targets. Many agree there is no real threat to public safety from stoners (other than the odd drug driver I'm assuming)

This doesent help ol mate who grows his own, for his own purposes (medicinal we could say).

I have a feeling that the 'cops' you know may swing a different view from the norm, do these cops 'you know' blaze up with you on occasion.?
 
I found this article about prohibition very interesting and worth the read. Its from 2010

Drugs policy: The 'British system'

Sir Ian Gilmore's valedictory e-mail to colleagues at the Royal College of Physicians calling for laws to be "reconsidered with a view to decriminalising illicit drugs use" fits squarely in a British tradition which stretches back a century and more.

Writing in the Sun newspaper, Sir Ian said that:

"there will always be hard drug users but instead of treating them as criminals, we should treat them as patients".

"Heroin addiction is an illness and we should treat it as such, instead of acting on a knee-jerk reaction and putting people in prison."

This argument has been put forward by doctors ever since American campaigners started urging the UK government to ban recreational drugs at the beginning of the last century. Under increasing diplomatic pressure from the United States to honour various treaty obligations and toughen up our drug laws, in 1924 the UK government finally did what it usually does in such circumstances. It called in Sir Humphry.

Man holding syringe with heroinThe Rolleston Committee was set up under the chairmanship of Sir Humphry Rolleston, an eminent physician renowned for his book, Disease of the Liver, Gall-Bladder and Bile Ducts. The medical men around the table took a very medical view of the drugs problem, concluding after two years deliberation that addiction was a disease and an addict was ill.

The US saw drug abuse as a sin; the UK had decided it was a sickness. This therapeutic approach was seen as a direct challenge to the prohibitionists on the other side of the Atlantic, but it was also seen as a very British response to the problem.

In this country we are reluctant to ban things and the Rolleston doctrine became known internationally as the "British system". What it meant was that, while some patients were put on a withdrawal programmes in institutions, others were prescribed doses of pure heroin. It was a matter for doctors, not the police.

This philosophy shaped British drugs policy for 40 years until, in the mid-1960s, it was discovered that a handful of doctors were abusing the system. Well, not so much a handful as one doctor - Lady Isabella Frankau, wife of the venerated consultant surgeon Sir Claude, is said to have almost single-handedly sparked the 60s heroin epidemic. Records confirm that in 1962 alone she prescribed more than 600,000 heroin tablets to hundreds of users who flocked to her Wimpole Street consulting rooms.

Her patient list read like a Who's Who of 60s bohemian cool. Poets, actors, musicians, writers and refugees from the strict drug laws in the US and Canada knew that Lady F would not ask too many questions and, if you were a bit short of readies, might even waive her consultancy fee. American jazz trumpeter Chet Baker turned up at her door and has related how "she simply asked my name, my address and how much cocaine and heroin I wanted per day".

Lady Frankau's motivation was to heal, but what was later described as her "lunatic generosity", saw the end of the British system. As prescribing rules were tightened up, black-market Chinese heroin and other narcotics flooded in. Our relationship with drugs would never be the same again.

Between 1964 and 1968 the number of known teenage heroin addicts in Britain rose from 40 to 785. Criminal gangs had moved in to supply all manner of new substances to young thrill-seekers with money in their pockets.

The Home Secretary, James Callaghan, told Parliament how Britain faced a "pharmaceutical revolution" which presented such dangers that if the country was "supine in the face of them" it would quickly lead to "grave dangers to the whole structure of our society".

It was the beginning of the global "war on drugs". In 1971, US President Richard Nixon described drug abuse as "public enemy number one" as the United Nations passed a new convention on "psychotropic substances" which widened international controls to almost any mind-altering substance imaginable.

The same year, the British Parliament passed the Misuse of Drugs Act giving the home secretary direct authority to ban new drugs and increase the penalties associated with them. Political debate about the wisdom of prohibition was effectively closed down, the medical profession was side-lined and the criminal justice system became the main tool to fight drug abuse.

Forty years later and there are the first signs that the discussion is being re-opened. Even within the staunchly prohibitionist micro-climate of the United Nations, the weather is changing.

At the UN offices in Vienna last year, a meeting of academics and government representatives met ostensibly to discuss the relative merits of compulsory and voluntary drug treatment. What emerged was a discussion paper that recast the international debate along the lines of the long-forgotten British system [350KB PDF]. It stated:

"Drug dependence is a health disorder (a disease) that arises from the exposure to drugs in persons with these pre-existing psycho-biological vulnerabilities."

"Such an understanding of drug dependence, suggests that punishment is not the appropriate response to persons who are dependent on drugs. Indeed, imprisonment can be counterproductive."

With a foreword from the previously hawkish UN drugs chief Antonio Maria Costa, the paper proposes "moving from a sanction-oriented approach to a health-oriented one", reflecting how many countries were "looking for alternatives" to the expensive and ineffective criminal justice approach.

In Britain, the chairman of the UK Bar Council, Nicholas Green QC recently wrote in a report that "decriminalising personal use can have positive consequences; it can free up huge amounts of police resources, reduce crime and recidivism and improve public health".

There have been a number of reports from respected think tanks saying similar things and now we have Sir Ian Gilmore's intervention.

The Home Office has made it clear ministers remain opposed to such ideas.

"The government does not believe that decriminalisation is the right approach. Our priorities are clear; we want to reduce drug use, crack down on drug-related crime and disorder and help addicts come off drugs for good."

The British public is also largely unconvinced, although a poll conducted by Liberal Democrats for Drug Policy Reform recently tried to test the strength of feeling when offered a range of options. According to the survey, there was 70% support for legal regulation of cannabis and with magic mushrooms, amphetamines, and mephedrone there was a majority in favour of legalisation and regulation. Roughly three in 10 people said they would prefer the state to regulate rather than prohibit heroin supply.

It does seem that the assurance of the prohibitionists in Britain and across Europe, at the United Nations and even in the United States is under pressure. It may be that the British system is being slipped onto the table once again.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/legacy/t.../2010/08/drugs_policy_the_british_system.html
 
I'm really not sure that a bunch of druggies from a little website are the greatest representatives of the cause :D, but I certainly appreciate and agree with the sentiment at least. I think the OP is a bit confusing as the perspective jumps a few times, from national to global. The points raised are effective, but they really require sources to establish any sort of credibility. There needs to be research to reinforce every point to ensure that its not merely an opinion.

I feel a bit uncomfortable with the socio-economic stipulations. Everyone who is over 18 can buy alcohol; prohibiting someone because of a subjective summation of their life is too easily exploitable and discriminatory without any sort of need or function. If drugs are going to be legal, I think they should be restricted, sold and marketed in the same way that alcohol is. The whole point is that we should be free to do what we choose with our lives, providided that choice does not impede others from doing the same, in the same way that we are free to drink alcohol in whatever way we choose.

Requiring the attendance of a doctor, with all the accompanying medical records and inherent marginalisation, is stigmatising and potentially out of some peoples means. This again suggests that the beneficiaries of the OP's suggestions are once again determined by wealth, and those who value their privacy will probably revert to buying street-drugs to avoid scrutiny or fear of discover.

If and when drugs become legal, I think the penalties for driving whilst intoxicated should be increased dramatically. This is in keeping with the idea of living your own life without hurting others. Any other crime related to drugs that effects others should also be met with increased sentencing.

That's my 2 grams.
 
This doesent help ol mate who grows his own, for his own purposes (medicinal we could say).

I have a feeling that the 'cops' you know may swing a different view from the norm, do these cops 'you know' blaze up with you on occasion.?
It's pretty rare for a cancer patient to be dragged to court because the cops raided his two or three plants in this day and age. The law might not support it but if you really need to self medicate with weed the powers that be almost always turn a blind eye. If the laws are to be changed to allow personal grows then there is no tax benefits to be gain by the government.

The vast majority of cannabis possession charges are large scale set ups being dobbed in by their neighbours. You could try and argue they are growing and supplying cancer patients for altruistic reasons but reality is most are doing it more for commercial gain.
 
It's pretty rare for a cancer patient to be dragged to court because the cops raided his two or three plants in this day and age. The law might not support it but if you really need to self medicate with weed the powers that be almost always turn a blind eye. If the laws are to be changed to allow personal grows then there is no tax benefits to be gain by the government.

The vast majority of cannabis possession charges are large scale set ups being dobbed in by their neighbours. You could try and argue they are growing and supplying cancer patients for altruistic reasons but reality is most are doing it more for commercial gain.

That's the thing, nobody should be prosecuted for such use, not even in rare occasions.

And not everyone can rely on ol plod turning a blind eye....

And damn you, you avoided my question :) .

Imagine your two plants in the backyard, found by some kid, looking for his cricket ball? His parents would most likely be anti-drug. Thier going to want to prosecute in some way. Especially some of the types I've met. This is a fairly broad example, but it could happen, and if you've got priors, could send you to jail.

That kind of 'shit luck' just shouldent happen.
 
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No one has been sent to jail for two plants since 1983. The only people who should be worried are young kids hooning in cars and EMD festival goers. Unless you are sparking up at the cricket no one gives a shit. Cannabis laws are only used as an excuse to bust anti social twats.
 
Only two plants you say? That ain't a lot....

Young kids hooning and EMD festival goers probably cant attend their plants very often, in fact, I doubt many of them grow the stuff. Are we talking about growing here? Did I miss something?

My example with the boy looking for his cricket ball, his parents could be anyone and slide with any political views.....

There are people getting busted for growing for personal use, to me that's bullshit. And you know it.

You just changed the demographic I was pointing out. Personal use and growing, cops bust these people, it's unwarranted IMO.

If they are turning blind eyes, why not simply change the laws? Wouldent that be easier on the cop?
 
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You were the one who said they would go to jail. Even guys slinging 50 pills at Stereosonic aren't being sent to prison.

I agree that weed is a victimless crime that will one day (probably once 25 US states legalise it first) we will look back on and wonder why people were so scared. If you don't want your neighbours calling in the cops for a couple of plants your best solution is to become friends with them so they don't see you as druggie scum and a threat to their children.
 
My neighbours love me, but they also voted for Abbot.

It was an example, an example of many. How about the drunken dude who's being chased by cops, decides your fence is the easiest to jump, break his ankle in your backyard. A young cop wanting to move on up, ain't going to turn a blind eye. There's heaps of scenarios, you could pick at them all, but they could all lead to you being prosecuted.

Neighbours is a fairly broad word for someone living close to you. And I'm sure there's people who try their hardest to get along with 'a neighbor' who's not in the slightest interested in his neighbors, ya get what I mean. Where not all 'weekly dinners' at such and such's house on golden street.....

Eh, you mentioned prison too: two people in 1983 getting imprisoned?

Two too many in my books.
 
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It really depends on the cops and the state too, I'm pretty sure the cops and courts in different places, like WA for example would be strict on weed. Maybe not jail for 2 plants, but if it was a multiple repeat offence, maybe.

WA Police Minister Rob Johnson says anyone caught with more than 10 grams of cannabis will face two years jail or a $2,000 fine. He said those caught with fewer than 10 grams must attend a one-on-one counselling session. Apparently this is to be based on a similar system used in QLD (July 2011)
 
I understand that cops are fairly leaniate these days when it comes to weed.

But there are people, who live in this world, with chips on their shoulder, some police are included in this catergory.

Why give them (the chippys), the opportunity to bust someone who's self medicating with a plant grown by Mother Nature, it's a herbal supplement IMO.

Why not change it, so these dudes with chips on their shoulder can F off.

1k of all people should know, there's people that are good at their job, and others that suck, but continue doing what they do as a profession. Don't give these idiots rights to stuff like this.
 
WA Police Minister Rob Johnson says anyone caught with more than 10 grams of cannabis will face two years jail or a $2,000 fine. He said those caught with fewer than 10 grams must attend a one-on-one counselling session. Apparently this is to be based on a similar system used in QLD (July 2011)
Fwiw Rob Johnson hasn't been the wa police minister for years, and is persona non-grata amongst the wa liberal party cunts.
 
1KW your generalisations might be more true for your age group and the affluent suburb you reside in, while I certainly concede that cannabis offences are not a major enforcement priority, if you are young and/or poor, in a lower socio economic area and happen to smoke or grow cannabis then being prosecuted is very possible and not at all uncommon.

I know several people who have been busted for cannabis, and they weren't being careless either. One was dragged into court for a single cannabis plant in his back yard, it was not even large, would of yielded a few ounces at most I reckon. I know another guy who had to go to court for one gram of bud because the Cops who found it on him refused to issue a caution.

Someone in my immediate family has been issued a cannabis caution because in the suburb they reside it is common for the Police to stop and search you after dark for absolutely no reason other than being young, male and having the audacity to walk home from the train station after 8 or 9pm. It is worth noting this is the same suburb that the guy who had to go to court for a single gram was busted in too, so clearly some Cops are looking for it and taking it fairly seriously.

In all of these cases all the Cops did was make criminals out of good blokes who don't even break the law apart from their affinity for cannabis and perhaps some infrequent use of amphetamines, that and put more money in the pockets of organised crime, because in all three cases the person purchased cannabis they would not otherwise have purchased if the Police had left them alone.

Those WA laws are fucking crazy, I barely know any stoners who would purchase less than 14 grams unless finances or availability prevented this from being a possibility, the fact that you could do two years in jail for scoring a half ounce of bud is insane.
 
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