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  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Legalisation - we need to push it everywhere we can

^It's also worked in Switzerland and sounds like a great idea. On the meth thing though I'm not sure exactly how it would work. Its the kind of thing you always want more of. I'm pretty sure the black market would continue unabated because some people are going to want keep pushing beyond safe levels.

Maybe a model like Portugal perhaps?
 
How about they just legalise weed and take it from there. This all or nothing approach does nothing to protect the serious addicts with no self control. People abuse over the counter opiates and they have some level of regulation via the PBS. Opening up these same people to a proper heroin maintenance scheme wont decrease the demand.

Although cannabis isn't completely benign, it does chew up an large proportion of resources without really a lot of risk to the community
 
I think you are talking about social change as much as legislative change.
One can result from the other, but law reform needn't be dismissed because the current drug consumption culture is so unhealthy and self destructive for many Australians.
A loosening of taboos can have positive health and social impacts, if implemented without the usual hyperbole and fear mongering that we are accustomed to hearing from our elected representatives on this issue.

Positive social change tends to happen incrementally, I think any rush to reform drug laws could be a mistake - but having said that, I think it is high time (no pun intended) to get the ball ...er, rolling.
 
First of all i wouldnt believe anything the media has to say on these current issues, not only that politicians and media go hand in hand, can you really see a fix to the current legeslations anytime soon ? Once a drug stigma attached viewed by society who are causing the problem by their inward perception on how drugs are so bad not having tried them once themselves, always a drug stigma attached.

The drug war has already been won, we get to use drugs don't we ? if your a good sort and you use drugs the chances are they will leave you alone anyway however obviously can charge you if they want to but that's the experience ive had with using drugs to this current day.

Governments and associated bodies can all come up with a smorgasboard of ideas for prohibition and legeslation however it's never going to pass the point of been spoken about, it has to be spoken about becuase substance is big business with a huge obvious market, so they make it a topic.

Thing is the markets set in stone as it stands it works, people go up people go down, we all get to use and have fun etc. To be fair to this topic i will say i always thought a new classing system for the substances would be good and the system outlining exactly what the classes are "really" there for and the other thing is for the government to tax all substances and issue out quotas of each substance based on preference of user/customers choice of substances and a fair psychological assessment that allows you to be eligible to buy drugs from the gov.

Too simply put it if you have a fall on any substance or become unwell or a hazard to society your quota decreases or if the case is to bad for society to put up with society being society then all relations between the user and the goverment all things drugs gets shutdown.

I find this fair.

The things we all dont know about the drug markets and drug war behind the scenes causing this.., the things we dont know.

Peace
 
This all or nothing approach does nothing to protect the serious addicts with no self control. People abuse over the counter opiates and they have some level of regulation via the PBS. Opening up these same people to a proper heroin maintenance scheme wont decrease the demand.

No one can really protect a person against themselves unless you're going to send them to the padded room. Decreasing the price might help with reducing crimes committed for the sake of raising funds to stop withdrawals.
I'm pretty sure there are some clear cut stats out there from the Swiss experience.
 
Have you ever lived in Switzerland? Their whole culture is completely different to Australia. Kids as young as 10 drink wine with their parents, yet I rarely saw a drunk on the streets when I went out night (unless you are talking tourist regions full of foreigners). The whole drug scene is really small compared to Australia,

I just don't think Australians have the same mindset to be able to compare the two countries. I'd love to be proven wrong but experience tells me otherwise.

The drug war has already been won, we get to use drugs don't we ? if your a good sort and you use drugs the chances are they will leave you alone anyway however obviously can charge you if they want to but that's the experience ive had with using drugs to this current day.

Careful, I get called a pompous cunt for suggesting such an idea, even though you are spot on ;)
 
With elections coming up this weekend, reckon its worth voting for the Sex Party? They have legalization on the agenda..or so they say
 
=onethousandwords;12711344]This all or nothing approach does nothing to protect the serious addicts with no self control. People abuse over the counter opiates and they have some level of regulation via the PBS. Opening up these same people to a proper heroin maintenance scheme wont decrease the demand.

The thing is all heroin addicts are in control already, Opiates are an empowering thing. It's the goverments/society and old age stigmas that never seem to die that keep giving opiate users a bad name. I'm not even an opiate user and i can see that that is the case. It's like people in crowds all ridiculing things just for the sake to appear to be with an apparent in crowd and taking on a pack mentality approach if the heroin user was in question, they as a group would certainly formulate a quick judgemental group opinion on the user without having individually thought it through themselves.

No one can really protect a person against themselves unless you're going to send them to the padded room. Decreasing the price might help with reducing crimes committed for the sake of raising funds to stop withdrawals.
I'm pretty sure there are some clear cut stats out there from the Swiss experience.

Padded rooms ? I thought they phased them out in the 70's or some shit ? At best you will get a psych evaluation by a team of fuck knows who they will just rock up one day and they take it from there, you go to wards with rooms with concrete walls hah not padded anymore i don't think. Hope i can stay away from the padded ones, be nothing worse than a straight jacket to boot haha, i know it's not funny. <3

Decreasing the price i can only see as a good thing, the market makes more that way annually if that's how they clock it and all users of substance win and as you said the crime rate will become far lower which is great.

The gov would have all the stats for sure and all sorts of insane research papers.
 
I reckon they're worth voting for if they represent what you think is important.
I don't know much about the sex party, but they're one of the few minor parties that are vocal about drug law reform.

Personally that in itself isn't enough to get my vote, but if I like their other policies and don't just vote with shit major parties all the time - why not?

Even if they don't tick all the boxes for you (so to speak) there's nothing wrong with voting on single issue. Why not?

Just make sure you preference whoever you'd rather form government, when you're voting in the lower house. (Are the Sex Party running lower house candidates?)
That way you can sort of direct your vote two ways ;)
 
well ive always personally preferred the smaller parties (e.g. greens, sex party) that have a social focus in mind instead of profits/corporation centric parties. i never really agreed with the libs or labour, both are crap but i cant decide which is worse haha. my vote will most likely go to the sex party or the greens.
 
I really don't like the idea of the government controlling substances. It should be a free market enterprise, but government should have legal standards for quality and safety.

Also... not so sure about straight up legalization either. The reason why things like cocaine and opium got banned in the first place was because of widespread addiction in the UK and United States. At the very least they should be decriminalized but I don't know if I want to see opiates in vending machines or over the counter.
 
I really don't like the idea of the government controlling substances. It should be a free market enterprise, but government should have legal standards for quality and safety.

Also... not so sure about straight up legalization either. The reason why things like cocaine and opium got banned in the first place was because of widespread addiction in the UK and United States. At the very least they should be decriminalized but I don't know if I want to see opiates in vending machines or over the counter.

Yeah i kind of agree with you there, i think if the goverment had control they would surely have some sort of maintained quality control based around there unknown criteria's for wanting to sell it in the first place, im sure they have their idea's.

One of the other reasons cocaine and opiates got banned was due to how concious they can make oneself and how connected to the universe it makes you if treated with care and respect.

My bet is the goverment already has control anyway and everything is a type of "as you were sir" scenario.
 
well ive always personally preferred the smaller parties (e.g. greens, sex party) that have a social focus in mind instead of profits/corporation centric parties. i never really agreed with the libs or labour, both are crap but i cant decide which is worse haha. my vote will most likely go to the sex party or the greens.
Yeah, I hear you! Totally agree.
I really don't like the idea of the government controlling substances. It should be a free market enterprise, but government should have legal standards for quality and safety.

Also... not so sure about straight up legalization either. The reason why things like cocaine and opium got banned in the first place was because of widespread addiction in the UK and United States. At the very least they should be decriminalized but I don't know if I want to see opiates in vending machines or over the counter.
The problem with "decriminalisation" is that distribution is still illegal - but consumption is legally tolerated, so you wind up with a legal market supplied by criminals.
In some ways this is more perverse than the current system.

In some ways I like the idea of plant drugs being legalised (because making nature illegal is a little irrational IMO - not that I think they are any safer than synthesised drugs).
Really bad addiction to opiates and cocaine could perhaps be better managed with those drugs in less potent forms (ie coca and poppies) and if someone wants to refine them for personal use, that's their business. Not a perfect solution, but interesting nonetheless.

Having said that there are no easy answers. But many great ideas to be floated and discussions to be had.
 
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The only thing cocaine connects is your head up your own arse

That's only if your an idiot by nature and sport such traits to act like the village idiot on cocaine to begin with.

To me cocaine is euphoric and warm. you get some that stimulates you to the point of sexy time you get some that just makes you talk shit flat out not knowing apples from oranges and then you get the clean shit that isn't complete firepower because complete firepower can be dirty in most cases, you can't be that high and not come down of coke that strong. The clean stuff is the sort of stuff that just makes you compasionate about things without being an over the top goon that still buys into a 70's type trend where cocaine is new on the scene causing unnesacary hype.

Then again given the situation a bit of hype is what happens in some cases i spose.

my 2c, sorry for going offtopic, i had to tell him im not one of those fuckwits on cocaine haha <3
 
I don't think it should the governments job to manufacture drugs. Drug manufacture should be left to the pharmaceutical companies (as much of an evil sack of shit the whole Pharma corp is).

The biggest problem with drugs, legal or otherwise, is the profit dimension. Cigarettes were so profitable that companies filled with middle and upper class highly educated people conspired on an industrial scale killing millions, possibly tens of millions of people. Imagine Phillip Morris moving into the manufacturing of heroin and decided to research how to improve it? Maybe they discover a version that has a hit that is a hundred times more euphoria but is a thousand times more addictive, they call it Ultramorphine ?

The consequences of private companies manufacturing, retailing and advertising drugs are so nightmarishly evil that If legalisation was to occur albeit with the wet dream of most druggies i.e. drugs on the shelves of supermarkets and bottle shops I would be the first person out there protesting to make them illegal again.

The corporations would create massive populations of zombies. The power of modern marketing (read - propaganda / mind control) along with the increadible power of narcotics such has heroin and cocaine would create massive armies of heplessly addicted lost souls. The money these pharmaceutical organisations woulld earn would create such corruption in our government that it would be a point of no return.

It would lead to the destruction of society and our civilisation. Millions would die and millions would be destitute, families would break down and we and the world be so profoundly affected it scares me to think anyone who supports such an idea hasn't seen the true evil, greed, and banality of the corporatism.

Oldred3s;12706471As much as I'd love to pay 10- 20 dollars for a gram of coke that will never happen said:
Opiates, MDMA and cocaine for example can be very cheaply manufactured. Its a myth that the costs are even in the double digits for cocaine. Shit they make this stuff in the middle of jungles for almost nothing.

There is even an Australian native plant (that grows in ACT/NSW) that has the alkaloids that could be used/converted to create cocaine. Poppies are a weed. The plants themselves grow with little effort and energy.

Manufacturing drugs by a government the size of Australia (or really any government) would create economies of scale utterly unheard of making all narcotics and psychedelics so affordable and cheap that the issue of cost would utterly nullified. These drugs are already well understood in terms of manufacturing them no way would we need a

I also don't think the idea of going to a doctor to dictate that your ok to take drugs recreationally, then the power of who can have them is back in the hand of someone else. If someone with a weak heart wants to get on the rack that's their problem no one else's. having someone say you can t do it will just make that person find and obtain it illegally.

1. Conservatives - convincing the idiots

If we're talking about convincing large parts of our society to legalise drugs then we really need to concede some ground. These people think

a) Dealers should be imprisioned for great periods of time and/or shot
b) users should be imprisioned for great periods of time or be submitted to tortorouses rehabs (Thai style)
c) that the cops are winning the war on drugs and who have no idea that we have spent hundreds of billions since the 50/60s when we made most drugs illicit.
d) think about the hundreds of billions wasted (and trillions across the world). Think that they are more then happy to continue doubling down every year on this stupid idiotic campaign.

Conservatives want two things. money/profit/self-enrichment. When that isn't available (see my response above why we shouldn't corporatise drugs) then they will defer to other conservatives, mainly doctors and lawyers (which is why the Liberals are stacked with lawyers and doctors)

Thus why my proposal hinges the fact that we will leverage a system that already has bi-parisan support, that has already been operating for a good decade​
- A proof in concept; Opioid Treatment Program.

2. Doctors (the power struggle) and safety


So yes at the present the Opioid Treatment Program has some major problems. Firstly the Doctors. I myself have had major problems with my prescriber. They have committed profession malpractice including been deceitful, incompetent (where a colleague would not have done so in the same circumstances) and utterly disrespectful. They've failed to communicate treatment plans and even engage me on the decisions being made. They've applied duress/blackmail.

But I see this as a symptom of an overworked badly under resourced system. The doctors see dozens of people a day (hence why in my first post I argued the AMA - Australian Medical Association needs to drop its ridiculous tertiary entrance ranking scores/requirements - what is it 99% required to go into medicine? Australian needs more doctors. The best doctors learn on the job, not because they got 99% in three unit english). More doctors, lighter case load, more nurse and support would allow them to focus on the patient and not their idiosyncrasy (i.e. the patient calls the doctor a stupid cunt who needs a good fuck.

This is a major issue in Australia and not just for drug prescribing. We need thousands of doctors and at present the surgeons & specalist colleagues, and the AMA have sewed the system up so as to limit supply they can ensure that doctors get paid outragously massive amounts of money. I'm sorry but I don't believe any doctor should be earning over half million and yet they are.

Back to drugs: Basically don't throw the baby out with the bath water. We need a delivery system and pubs and supermarkets aren't appropriate for extremely powerful substances that need to be treated with respect. Pubs already serve far too much alcohol to their customers. What would happen if you were at the bar, mixing up your gram of pub supplied smack after you've just had 2 before so.

So we need a system that is already approved and functioning. This system with substantial funding, a rewriting of this rules and regulations and significantly expanding it to cover all drugs would provide the basis of controlled distribution without any of the massive harms that we have seen with uncontrolled (relatively) systems like that for alcohol and nicotine.

The only exception like I said would be for Cannabis and perhaps other natural based substances i.e. DMT, Magic mushrooms - where specialised clubs that could operate on retail premises could sell to the public under fairly rigorous controls and inspections. I could see several substances in very small quantities being allowed to be used by minors (no younger then 16). These clubs would be non-for profit and would have regulated incomes (like a chemist). Excess profits would though be donated to a government approved NGO.

There are a great many dysfunctional drug users out there. These people need urgent medical treatment. Giving power to specialist doctors who could prescribe narcotics would allow, along side a beefed up and properly functioning medical treatment system, the incentive to have these sick people to come in and interact with services. Drugs for trust & cooperation of people who are utterly dysfunctional, and many who have been made that way by the system and institutions who imprisoned them, beat and abused them, gave them poor defences, wrote chapters in medical research then properly caring for their patients and so on.

The expansion of the clinics would have attached to it a significant system of education & certification system.

I am utterly incredulous that right now I can buy a half-weight of heroin, a bottle of water (sealed - duh) and a box of a income an shoot up not realising the massive amount of harm I'm doing (especially with the water). I would argue there is a powerful case to require all drug users (functional & dysfunctional) to attend drug education lectures / courses. Now some may look upon this with some vision of a 80s American comedy where the protagonist is made to watch videos in a DUI class, shown the effects of drink driving in a graphical context.

I would argue that with the right funding an informative lecture series, run by talented & engaged educators could provide people with the knowledge and skills to use drugs safely. For example how many people on bluelight know that mixing alcholol with APAP is insanely stupid?

Every user would gain certification and points. Points would allow users certain privileges and responsibilities. Want to take home 5 grams of smack. Well you need to have done the Opiate Safety Cert 1, Securing Drugs Cert 1, Drugs and Kids Cert 1. Being employed, having no criminal record (or pending charges), a safe driver with no drug/drink driving charges and so would all be aggregated along with the mountains of other data and analysis to come to a recommendation regarding if the individual could take drugs home and use small quantities.

However other individuals who were dysfunctional and refused to attend education would be required to use the substances at the clinic.


3. Age, control, tracking and management

The government as you said will definitely need to create an authority that overseas this system. The great risk is that drugs are funnelled out of it into regions where they are still illegal. Drugs produced cheaply in Australia would make for massive profits in say Balia.

I would argue that some sort of tracking system, and embedding into drugs identifying data (like microdots on cars) would ensure that patients who had restrictions on them, and who sought drugs for those with no restrictions, would be effectively cocked block. If your drugs (Oldred3s) were found illegally in someone else possession then you'd lose your privileges and have to dose at the clinic.

With the widespread availability of drugs through the clinics the criminal enterprises across Australia would collapse. The few people who wouldn't jump the hoops/requirements set out by the clinics would be too few to create a troublesome black market which would really have to lift its game as it would have to compete guaranteed pure drugs. See at the moment the black market as it stands has very little competition. As a result it can sell shit (look at MDMA for the last 14 years - utter shit).

Age

This is a thorny and difficult area that if not dealt with could easily cripple the legalisation movement. I would argue that if you can join the military at age 16 then you surely can get high. Though would come with some straightforward requirements

a) more certification and clear objective results that showed that the courses were understood
b) certain drugs in certain quantities with certain period of rest between doses. I.e. cannabis once a week. not daily.
c) parental approval
d) automatic counselling and support.

You get the idea.

Control

Definitely an authority (that would be required to go under a mini-Royal commission style review every five years. Where money, lives and families saved would be calculated. Where everyone in the system would be required to undergo periodic random checks. Where drug inventories systems would under go rigorously monitored. Undercover agents would work in various parts of the department/clinics. Staff would be required to submit their financials for review if any charges were raised of wrongdoing. Security services would be replaced periodically (i.e. no cushy deal for one firm to provide security for the rest of time).

and so on.

anyway i'm falling asleep. I'll be back to either fix my terrible grammar or continue my arguments.
 
Everything you just dribbled down onto your screen would cost far too much money. I'm sorry but training competent doctors costs hundreds of thousand each. Many of these doctors by the way come out of med school now owing at least $100k in Hecs fees which are still heavily subsidised. When I trained it was estimated that each student cost $60 000 per year to train, and this is going back 20 yr ago. Multiply this by 5-6 years and you can see why you idea of thousands more being trained being ridiculous. Perhaps there is a reason the cut off score for economics is lower than for medicine. The idea that you can learn on the job is almost as idiotic as giving 16 year olds access to drugs. You only have to see the poor quality of many overseas medical graduates to understand why Australia has such a high entrance requirements.

Next you have created an almost unlimited levels of bureaucracy to monitor and deliver these drugs. Our public service is bloated and inefficient as it is without adding screening, distribution, tracking, and then enforcing the rules of these drugs, with no real profit stream to cover these costs. The way I see it, if it is easy to grow and produce, why wouldn't the public do it themselves, bypassing such a convoluted system of control? If someone gets caught with a spliff in the street are the police really going to be bother checking if it is officially government sanctioned weed or are they going to just shrug their shoulders and just feel it isn't worth their time if half the population can do it anyway?

I don't know what socio economic community you come from (but I can hazard to guess), but no one In my circle of friends would sign up to such a scheme as you have suggested. All of my friends car insurance, health insurance, income protection and professional indemnity insurance would sky rocket as soon as they registered as a drug user, just as they do now if you are a smoker or rack up multiple speeding fines or even have a family history of cancer or heart disease. People complain that cost of living is too high now, imagine if their Medicare contribution is increased another 1-2% to cover the associated education classes?

Then you have the employer industries who would straight out ban you from working. Miners? Pilots? Doctors? Police force? Taxis and bus drivers? Construction workers? Teachers? Pretty much any one who works heavy machinery would be red flagged. All of a sudden you have created an underclass of unemployable drug dependants or a very large black market of people who want their drug use to remain unknown. There will be thousands of check out chicks high as fuck and happy as larry to be able to access their drug of choice but I honestly believe you have grossly under estimated the vast majority of society who economically would be affected by signing up.

You also argue that quality of drugs is poor because of lack of competition. I'd argue that people sell bunk drugs because consumers don't care. They are simply happy to get fucked up yet dealers only profit when there is a market for their product. If you refuse to buy crap then they are forced to lift their standards.
 
I think the only reason it costs so little to make these drugs now (while they are illegal) is because drug syndicates steal all the shit they need to make them. The two reasons they steal the shit are 1. Because they want bigger profit margins.
2. Because buying all the products needed will ring off alarm bells.
@chugs you seem to have very little faith for humans that if drugs were legalised that people could control themselves. It's the same as alcohol. It's only a small amount of people that abuse it. Your not going to have an epidemic of people running around permanently off there head, being totally gacked out at work etc.
also that talk having drugs data dotted or whatever is fuckin shit idea. That's basically like saying lets stick an RFID chip in everyone to track em. Fuck that. Like I said before. Have a little faith in people. Full blown addiction doesn't happen to everyone, it's a small percentage that get it. You can't just presume every cunt will end up a junkie.
I have been using cannabis off and on for close to 20 years and chemicals for 12 years. At the moment I haven't used chems for a few months. Soul reason, I'm don't feel like using any at this point in time. It wasn't hard. I just felt like drying out. I was addicted to meth a few years back tho and I got off that shit.
Only a small percentage of people are full blown addicts and those people will get addicted anything they indulge in weather it's drugs or gambling or even sex.
 
Everything you just dribbled down onto your screen would cost far too much money. I'm sorry but training competent doctors costs hundreds of thousand each. Many of these doctors by the way come out of med school now owing at least $100k in Hecs fees which are still heavily subsidised. When I trained it was estimated that each student cost $60 000 per year to train, and this is going back 20 yr ago. Multiply this by 5-6 years and you can see why you idea of thousands more being trained being ridiculous. Perhaps there is a reason the cut off score for economics is lower than for medicine. The idea that you can learn on the job is almost as idiotic as giving 16 year olds access to drugs. You only have to see the poor quality of many overseas medical graduates to understand why Australia has such a high entrance requirements.

Thanks for keeping it civil.

You obviously didn't do economics at school. If, like I've said twice, the AMA and colleges lowed their entrance requirements that in turn would result in more applicants/students consequence the economies of scale would reduce the cost of teaching the course.

Why do you think Cuba gets away with a world class medical system, that is oversupplied with doctors and nurses? With entrance ranking scores of 99? Of course not. You mention something about poor overseas doctors. Well send them through refresher courses.

In anycase there aren't enough doctors in Australia as it currently stands and that is because the AMA has cooked the market. Doctors shouldn't earn the money they earn. Its a hijacking of the public, holding them hostage with low numbers of doctors who develop through terrible case loads asshole god complexes.

Next you have created an almost unlimited levels of bureaucracy to monitor and deliver these drugs. Our public service is bloated and inefficient as it is without adding screening, distribution, tracking, and then enforcing the rules of these drugs, with no real profit stream to cover these costs. The way I see it, if it is easy to grow and produce, why wouldn't the public do it themselves, bypassing such a convoluted system of control? If someone gets caught with a spliff in the street are the police really going to be bother checking if it is officially government sanctioned weed or are they going to just shrug their shoulders and just feel it isn't worth their time if half the population can do it anyway?

Of course not because I said there would be cannabis clubs that you could get smoko from. Fuck man your not reading the posts are you.

Plus go back to the direct costs. $17 billion in FY14 for the state and federal police agencies. At least $5 billion in legal costs (defence/prosecution) and prison costs.
At least $20 billion saved from money that is currently flowing out of the country.

The "unlimited" levels of bureaucracy wouldn't be that much. It cost $60 million this year to run the royal commission in to the Church and sex abuse. So don't start inflating the costs. The clinic infrastructure is already up and running. The biggest cost would be getting more doctors but like I've said we already need massive reform in this place. It wouldn't be half as much for illict drugs as it would be simply to improve the quality of medical care in this country.

I don't know what socio economic community you come from (but I can hazard to guess), but no one In my circle of friends would sign up to such a scheme as you have suggested. All of my friends car insurance, health insurance, income protection and professional indemnity insurance would sky rocket as soon as they registered as a drug user, just as they do now if you are a smoker or rack up multiple speeding fines or even have a family history of cancer or heart disease. People complain that cost of living is too high now, imagine if their Medicare contribution is increased another 1-2% to cover the associated education classes?

Good god are you this much of an asshole or does drug legalisation under the control of someone eat at you this much you'd burn everything down just so you could get easy access to drugs. Go back to the direct and indirect costs argument. We are saving upwards of $25 billion per annum in direct costs and at least double that indirect costs.

There is no need to raise the Medicare levy 1-2%.

Insurance across the board would drop. Theft's and burglary would almost disappear. Drug related medical hard would plumment. I know countless users and dealers who have ended up in hospital due to unsafe practices. These people would vanish from hospital beds free up services for non-drug using Australians.
Then you have the employer industries who would straight out ban you from working. Miners? Pilots? Doctors? Police force? Taxis and bus drivers? Construction workers? Teachers? Pretty much any one who works heavy machinery would be red flagged. All of a sudden you have created an underclass of unemployable drug dependants or a very large black market of people who want their drug use to remain unknown. There will be thousands of check out chicks high as fuck and happy as larry to be able to access their drug of choice but I honestly believe you have grossly under estimated the vast majority of society who economically would be affected by signing up.

And what pilots and miners don't already use and disguise their use already? This is such a bullshit argument. Why are you throwing mud at me like this. There is no way drugs are going to be legalised in the wet dream like fantasy you have where you can rock up to woolies and by an ounce of cannabis or walk to the bottle shop next door for a packet of LSD.

Drug use is everywhere in our society. The police and employers of safety critical industries have failed to stop their citizens and employees from using. Of course people will register to get access to pure/clean drugs that are cheap.

Why would I keep buying heroin at $600 a gram when I can buy it for $30 down at my local clinic? Yes my employer will need to know and we will have to schedule my time on at work when I'm not high.....and if I can't control myself then maybe I shouldn't be a pilot.

If I as a pilot hide my use well I would have been doing that already long before drug legalisation came around. More then likely cheap clean drugs along with counselling and medical care would maybe intervene and help me come to terms with my problematic drug use.

You also argue that quality of drugs is poor because of lack of competition. I'd argue that people sell bunk drugs because consumers don't care. They are simply happy to get fucked up yet dealers only profit when there is a market for their product. If you refuse to buy crap then they are forced to lift their standards.

You really haven't learn any economic theory have you. Drugs are an inelastic market. People will buy drugs even if the quality decreases. That's what addiction does to you. You sort of keep buying irrespective of the quality. Sure you'd grumble and be upset. They care. but most addictions motivate people to stave off withdrawals.

As a pill reports moderator you might have pill coloured glasses on. There aren't that many people actively addicted to MDMA (though the speed in the pills does make people quite addicted to them). I would argue that most people care about if their MDMA is shitty or not but their motivation to get high/stave off denial of their situation is far greater hence their continued purchase of a product that isn't as good.

For drug dealers its a race to the bottom. No one wants to have the best quality gear. They'll cut and cut until the gear is no better or worse then anyone elses. They know they'll keep selling otherwise. Shit I've said gear get as worse as chalk and yet dealers will be calling to push it.
 
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