secret squirrel
Bluelighter
i bumbped into a book on the net called secrets of methamphetamine manufacture which got me wondering whether or such a book would be legal to buy, posses or import into australia, anyone know?
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AADD Moderators: andyturbo
legalilty of drug texts?
- Thread starter secret squirrel
- Start date
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Well I've got various pieces of stuff necessary for the HR and Uni work I'm doing, but I haven't got that one. Nor would I want it either.
It is definitely not legal in some states to possess this book. Media reports have often mentioned Fester's book when doing stories on lab busts. Having this book and anything else remotely associated with production, even with no intent to produce, would be very risky IMO.
It is definitely not legal in some states to possess this book. Media reports have often mentioned Fester's book when doing stories on lab busts. Having this book and anything else remotely associated with production, even with no intent to produce, would be very risky IMO.
Cowboy Mac
Bluelighter
For a book specifically dealing with drug manufacture/clandestine chemistry it would be smarter to buy it from Polyester. It will be more expensive but will be anonymous, and unless your doing it for some light bedtime reading anonymity is what you will probably want.
Pleonastic
Bluelighter
I've posted on this in the past but essentially if you want to get really technical, no publication is permitted to be sold in Australia without having it classified by the Office of Film and Literature Classification. In practice this obviously can't happen all the time, so they tend to only ever enforce it in cases where there is a chance the publication could be classified either CAT1, CAT2, or RC (refused classification). A book about drugs would definitely fall into this area of requiring the board to have a look.
There is a clause in the guidelines for the classification of publications which says publications may be refused classification if they "promote, incite, or instruct in matters of crime of violence". It goes on to say that publications will be refused classification "if they contain detailed instruction in ... the use of proscribed drugs". What this means is that basically any book about drugs which doesn't condenm their use can technically be refused classification and thus be made illegal for sale in Australia (and even illegal for import into Australia).
That said, I know for a fact that there are places in Australia where books which I have confirmed as definitely being refused classification are sold over the counter. So it's one of those laws that while being technically illegal, it's still fairly easy to get around. And it's much less risky than buying the actual drugs themselves!
Check out the Office of Film and Literature Classification web page - they have a database where you can check to see if the book you're after has been classified (and either restricted for sale to adults or banned altogether). If you can't find it then technically you can't buy it, but that's not really going to stop you. The full guidelines for the classification of publications can be found here (PDF file).
There is a clause in the guidelines for the classification of publications which says publications may be refused classification if they "promote, incite, or instruct in matters of crime of violence". It goes on to say that publications will be refused classification "if they contain detailed instruction in ... the use of proscribed drugs". What this means is that basically any book about drugs which doesn't condenm their use can technically be refused classification and thus be made illegal for sale in Australia (and even illegal for import into Australia).
That said, I know for a fact that there are places in Australia where books which I have confirmed as definitely being refused classification are sold over the counter. So it's one of those laws that while being technically illegal, it's still fairly easy to get around. And it's much less risky than buying the actual drugs themselves!
Check out the Office of Film and Literature Classification web page - they have a database where you can check to see if the book you're after has been classified (and either restricted for sale to adults or banned altogether). If you can't find it then technically you can't buy it, but that's not really going to stop you. The full guidelines for the classification of publications can be found here (PDF file).
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Probably because no-body checks the millions of imported books as they enter the country. I do wonder though, whether a complaint regarding a bookshop selling this material would be followed up. What are the penalties for selling prohibited material of this nature?
In regards to Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacture; I have actually read most of the book, and I can say that all the relevant stuff which is error free (& there are quite a few mistakes) is on Rhodiums site. Fester has received some heavy criticism over the years, not least from a feisty young drug discoverer named Eleusis. Eleusis was considered a true hero in the clandestine chemists' world, as he pioneered or uncovered many techniques for making MDMA with commonly available chemicals. All this from an English Major, 22 yo at the time.
Eleusis vs Uncle Fester
He eventually got caught and served time. His story can also be found on Rhodium
The Memoirs of Eleusis
Witch Doctor
Bluelighter
hmm and i thought we had freedom of speech..
does this classification system include all media.. if Festers book is illegal, than surely it would be illegal for us in .au to surf to rhodium.ws ?
does this classification system include all media.. if Festers book is illegal, than surely it would be illegal for us in .au to surf to rhodium.ws ?
Cowboy Mac
Bluelighter
Originally posted by Witch Doctor
hmm and i thought we had freedom of speech..
does this classification system include all media.. if Festers book is illegal, than surely it would be illegal for us in .au to surf to rhodium.ws ?
hmm and i thought we had freedom of speech..
does this classification system include all media.. if Festers book is illegal, than surely it would be illegal for us in .au to surf to rhodium.ws ?
Good point, however the internet is much more difficult to police than importation of physical objects.
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Good point. I don't know of a drug case in Australia (to date) where internet history has been used against someone directly in a court case involving small amounts of drugs, but it has certainly lead to undoings.
At the Uni I attend, last year a guy was sprung making drugs because he used the department computer to download from the Bee place and Rhodium. Someone picked up a paper he left lying around and that led to checking history, checking workbenches, checking cupboards and finally to him checking out of the department into the waiting hands of Police.
As for book restrictions being an infringement of freedom of speech; well whatever it's called banning almost anything is still a stupid antiquated reasoning IMO. My point is 99.99% of people intent on using, selling or making drugs, will not be put off by the non-availability of books, where-as serious academic research or even student projects may be compromised. Not to mention the applicability to Harm Reduction Education. My Forensics Lecturer was interested in looking at PiHKAL. In fact after leaving it with him for the term he designed a forensics lab exercise from it %)
At the Uni I attend, last year a guy was sprung making drugs because he used the department computer to download from the Bee place and Rhodium. Someone picked up a paper he left lying around and that led to checking history, checking workbenches, checking cupboards and finally to him checking out of the department into the waiting hands of Police.
As for book restrictions being an infringement of freedom of speech; well whatever it's called banning almost anything is still a stupid antiquated reasoning IMO. My point is 99.99% of people intent on using, selling or making drugs, will not be put off by the non-availability of books, where-as serious academic research or even student projects may be compromised. Not to mention the applicability to Harm Reduction Education. My Forensics Lecturer was interested in looking at PiHKAL. In fact after leaving it with him for the term he designed a forensics lab exercise from it %)
Pleonastic
Bluelighter
Australia has fuck all freedom when it comes to film, video, publications, and especially computer games. Luckily there are no similar laws relating to the classification of the internet (yet). It's too hard to police without breaking the current privacy laws we have, and it isn't seen as much of a threat anyway since so much of the information is unreliable anyway. But there are some politicians that want to do it, and it can probably be done if a country really wants to (look at china). Lets hope it never reaches that though.
However that said, with a crafty enough prosecutor you could probably be charged under current classification laws for content you look at on the internet, and without a good lawyer yourself you could probably get done for it too. Although like phase_dancer I've never heard of it happening.
However that said, with a crafty enough prosecutor you could probably be charged under current classification laws for content you look at on the internet, and without a good lawyer yourself you could probably get done for it too. Although like phase_dancer I've never heard of it happening.
Witch Doctor
Bluelighter
Pleonastic said:
does that mean that if the book has a big fat disclaimer on it sayin this is for educational purposes etc.. it could be legal?
phase_dancer
Bluelight Crew
Say they did - they're bound to eventually try to - restrict internet movement, labebeling all sites indecent that violate current classification guidelines, then wouldn't everyone just turn to using encrypted communications through proxy servers?
I know that by law you are forced to disclose encryption codes, but they have to catch you first. It would seem from my limited knowledge of Internet security that such things could easily be possible. What about changes to ISEC protocol codes using Lynix? I've heard it's already happening. Groups using server space, but not even registering as being connected and sucking massive bandwidth from the server.
Perhaps the governments don't do it smply because it can't be done. As for China, well maybe it's equally easy to evade their restrictions, but most people would be too hesitant to try.
I know that by law you are forced to disclose encryption codes, but they have to catch you first. It would seem from my limited knowledge of Internet security that such things could easily be possible. What about changes to ISEC protocol codes using Lynix? I've heard it's already happening. Groups using server space, but not even registering as being connected and sucking massive bandwidth from the server.
Perhaps the governments don't do it smply because it can't be done. As for China, well maybe it's equally easy to evade their restrictions, but most people would be too hesitant to try.
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Pleonastic
Bluelighter
Those bits I've quoted are sort of out of context - there's a bunch of other stuff that also affects the decision to refuse classification but I didn't quote them cos it's a PDF file and I had to type it out long hand!Witch Doctor said:
It does pretty much mean that it will be refused classification, but there is also an appeals board which you can go to if an applicant disagrees with the original decision. For example the film Romance was originally refused classification, but at appeal it was given an R rating. However a more recent example, Ken Park, was not reclassified - so it depends how well you argue and whether your material is in a grey area or whether it clearly violates their standards.
Disclaimers tend not to change the classification of things much though - to the board (who are just following the guidelines) a disclaimer of "this is for educational purposes" can't be allowed because then it sets a precident, and anyone making a child porno for example can slap that tag on their book and try and get away with it. To them, instructions on making drugs are just as illegal as instructions on paedofilia (as much as you and I can probably see the distinction - they just go on the letter of the law).
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Witch Doctor
Bluelighter
hmm thats really annoying, i dont like being told what i can/can't see/learn..
