Misc Legal/grey alternatives to Kratom which work well for sex and masturbation

[Deleted member 595929]

I have experience with plenty of "mainstream" substances both legal and illegal. I know which illegal ones are appropriate, but now I'm not interested in that. I know that sex and masturbation don't require substances, but I'm not looking for something which will be used only for that.

Kratom is really good, I love it! It has some side effects and is addictive, but with a bit of discipline, it can be used responsibly. Why I'm looking for an alternative, is because Kratom for me makes sexual stuff more of a background thing, it seems to take over and it diminishes the "appetite" for it, if that makes sense. I've used it with different dosages and pauses, but I couldn't make it work and that messes with my mood in a bit chaotic way. I'd prefer to have a substance which has similar qualities to Kratom, but which enhances sex and the sensations, not "numb" them down.

The other legal substances which I've tried and why they don't work well for me now:

• Alcohol
  • I stopped drinking years ago and I'm not interested in it now.
• Nicotine
  • I've tried it a couple of times, but I'm not interested in it at all.
• Caffeine
  • I drink it, I love it, but it's definitely not a replacement for Kratom, for me at least. It works well sexually at least.
• Kava
  • Too expensive long-term for me now.

Other legal/grey substances I've looked at, but haven't tried, which don't seem like they would be a good replacement:

• Phenibut
  • Seems to mess you up long-term both physically and mentally. Stomach problems, insane withdrawals, severe rebound anxiety, etc. Yes, Kratom also has similar issues, but Phenibut seems scarier to me, maybe someone could convince me otherwise.
• Plenty of research chemicals
  • Too many to list and it'll be pointless going through them. I'm a bit scared of the obscure ones, plus most are now covered by broad laws and I don't want to risk it, not worth it in my current situation.
• Blue Lotus
  • Seems to be too mild for what I'm looking for. As far I understand it's similar to Chamomile. The extracts seem to be too "dirty" and a lot of shady stuff seems to be going around them.
• Kanna
  • Same issue as "Blue Lotus". I assume all plants similar to this are going to have the same problem.

 

[Vastness]

Lol soooo you want something that can be used for sex and masturbation, OR not for sex and masturbation? Or just something worth trying, which doesn't INTERFERE with sex and/or masturbation?

Also... must be legal and/or grey area but also not so grey that they're covered by broad analogue laws and also not totally illegal? Although, reminder, you haven't specified what part of the world you're from - although even if you had asking us to just judge your preferred shade of grey of the already hazy analogue laws in most parts of the world that actually have analogue laws, is a bit much, IMO... I think you need to clarify a little exactly what you're looking for here. Are you looking for a sex enhancer or not? And it must be legal, where?

Going just off the scant information you provided I'd say you're writing off phenibut a bit too soon, sure some people are particularly prone to overuse and if you use it too frequently or in too heavy doses, yes withdrawals, rebound anxiety and stomach problems are possible, but this is not the norm, many people manage to use phenibut at a reasonable frequency and at reasonable doses consistently for some time without developing issues. It lasts a lot longer than kratom, tolerance develops faster, and significant negative aftereffects take longer to develop, for the most part. Because tolerance develops quite quickly you really have to be pretty damn committed using multiple days back to back, escalating dose each time, if you wanna start developing a problem, whereas with kratom, IME, you can find yourself mildly addicted and experiencing subtle withdrawals without ever having taken a particularly heavy dose, but just using a bit too long, redosing too often. Most people who use phenibut will never take more than 1 dose per day, for instance, whereas with kratom even after a single dose, 4 hours later you can be getting that dangerous temptation to just take a little more. Everyone reacts differently but just speaking for myself, kratom was far more problematic for me than phenibut ever was.

I'll say I've never been one to really look for a "masturbation drug", to each their own but always seemed a little too degenerate to me, but phenibut I think is significantly more sexually enhancing than kratom is as well. Actually I never tried to have sex on kratom, thinking about it now, maybe it's great. But I doubt it.

 

[Deleted member 595929]

Lol soooo

*sigh* I don't know why, but I expected such a reaction. The Internet became too predictable lately.

you want something that can be used for sex and masturbation, OR not for sex and masturbation

What?

Or just something worth trying, which doesn't INTERFERE with sex and/or masturbation?

Yes? Is it that hard to imagine a substance messing with your libido, especially long term, especially opiates?

Also... must be legal and/or grey area but also not so grey that they're covered by broad analogue laws

Uhm, yes? Broad analogue laws makes it illegal, not grey. RCs were grey before those laws. Maybe where you live that's not the case, but here it definitely is. The only realistic solution is Tor, but at that point, I will just get anything, which I can't, because my situation currently makes this too risky.

you haven't specified what part of the world you're from

If I say the continent, that will tell you nothing, if I say the country, how will you help? You will read the same laws I've read, although unlikely that you'll read any laws, you'll probably guess or read some wiki article or something. Also why would I want to publicly admit where I am? No, I'm not giving you GPS coordinates, but in niche forums like this with illegal discussions, I feel like it's kind of easy to extrapolate.

I think you need to clarify a little exactly what you're looking for here.

I think I've been as clear as I can be, but I guess it's hard to explain to fried brains.

sure some people are particularly prone to overuse

A lot of people seem to get all of the side effects I mentioned even with "normal" use.

Because tolerance develops quite quickly

Very convincing, I mentioned I'm avoiding Kava because it's too expensive long-term and I should be happy that Phenibut gets expensive fast.

I'll say I've never been one to really look for a "masturbation drug"

And as I mentioned, I'm not looking for something which will be used only for that.

Oh god I knew that this would happen in this forum, it's always the same in druggie communities. I don't know why I had a bit of hope even. It's just, you read what you want to read, understand how you want to understand and then just reply nonsense.

 

[N0ph0n0]

Meth

 

[lost weekend]

I have experience with plenty of "mainstream" substances both legal and illegal. I know which illegal ones are appropriate, but now I'm not interested in that. I know that sex and masturbation don't require substances, but I'm not looking for something which will be used only for that.

Kratom is really good, I love it! It has some side effects and is addictive, but with a bit of discipline, it can be used responsibly. Why I'm looking for an alternative, is because Kratom for me makes sexual stuff more of a background thing, it seems to take over and it diminishes the "appetite" for it, if that makes sense. I've used it with different dosages and pauses, but I couldn't make it work and that messes with my mood in a bit chaotic way. I'd prefer to have a substance which has similar qualities to Kratom, but which enhances sex and the sensations, not "numb" them down.

The other legal substances which I've tried and why they don't work well for me now:

• Alcohol
  • I stopped drinking years ago and I'm not interested in it now.
• Nicotine
  • I've tried it a couple of times, but I'm not interested in it at all.
• Caffeine
  • I drink it, I love it, but it's definitely not a replacement for Kratom, for me at least. It works well sexually at least.
• Kava
  • Too expensive long-term for me now.

Other legal/grey substances I've looked at, but haven't tried, which don't seem like they would be a good replacement:

• Phenibut
  • Seems to mess you up long-term both physically and mentally. Stomach problems, insane withdrawals, severe rebound anxiety, etc. Yes, Kratom also has similar issues, but Phenibut seems scarier to me, maybe someone could convince me otherwise.
• Plenty of research chemicals
  • Too many to list and it'll be pointless going through them. I'm a bit scared of the obscure ones, plus most are now covered by broad laws and I don't want to risk it, not worth it in my current situation.
• Blue Lotus
  • Seems to be too mild for what I'm looking for. As far I understand it's similar to Chamomile. The extracts seem to be too "dirty" and a lot of shady stuff seems to be going around them.
• Kanna
  • Same issue as "Blue Lotus". I assume all plants similar to this are going to have the same problem.

Your right alcohol does nothing for sex appart from lowering your inhibition fooling you into falling in love with a complete stranger only to regret it after

But,after a fairly heavy night of drinking (not to much) there's a sweet spot after the worst effects have subsidised
That's probably been the best sex I've experienced
"Sins of the flesh" I call it ,your partners skin seems so soft ,more than usual

 

[Gridlink]

Methamphetamine for sure. Some people used to swear by MDPV too. Ephedrine might work and it seems like you're into legal highs so there ya go.

Oh and MDMA. How'd I space that one?

 

[cnnka]

Maybe you haven’t tried kanna strong extract in a nasal spray , mediocre high short lasting 20-30 minutes empathetic high when the high wears off crazy sex drive and woods better than sidenafil

 

[streaM Freak]

Do you guys even read? (Not you cnnka, the ones saying meth)

I have experience with plenty of "mainstream" substances both legal and illegal. I know which illegal ones are appropriate, but now I'm not interested in that. I know that sex and masturbation don't require substances, but I'm not looking for something which will be used only for that.

Kratom is really good, I love it! It has some side effects and is addictive, but with a bit of discipline, it can be used responsibly. Why I'm looking for an alternative, is because Kratom for me makes sexual stuff more of a background thing, it seems to take over and it diminishes the "appetite" for it, if that makes sense. I've used it with different dosages and pauses, but I couldn't make it work and that messes with my mood in a bit chaotic way. I'd prefer to have a substance which has similar qualities to Kratom, but which enhances sex and the sensations, not "numb" them down.

The other legal substances which I've tried and why they don't work well for me now:

• Alcohol
  • I stopped drinking years ago and I'm not interested in it now.
• Nicotine
  • I've tried it a couple of times, but I'm not interested in it at all.
• Caffeine
  • I drink it, I love it, but it's definitely not a replacement for Kratom, for me at least. It works well sexually at least.
• Kava
  • Too expensive long-term for me now.

Other legal/grey substances I've looked at, but haven't tried, which don't seem like they would be a good replacement:

• Phenibut
  • Seems to mess you up long-term both physically and mentally. Stomach problems, insane withdrawals, severe rebound anxiety, etc. Yes, Kratom also has similar issues, but Phenibut seems scarier to me, maybe someone could convince me otherwise.
• Plenty of research chemicals
  • Too many to list and it'll be pointless going through them. I'm a bit scared of the obscure ones, plus most are now covered by broad laws and I don't want to risk it, not worth it in my current situation.
• Blue Lotus
  • Seems to be too mild for what I'm looking for. As far I understand it's similar to Chamomile. The extracts seem to be too "dirty" and a lot of shady stuff seems to be going around them.
• Kanna
  • Same issue as "Blue Lotus". I assume all plants similar to this are going to have the same problem.

There's something called horny goat weed. I know. But it's real, and a natural supplement. I tried in for a brief time my senior year of highschool and it actually was kinda nice.

Um, stay away from gas station shit (I know you didn't ask). Sometimes they use drugs that help blood flow. But also they are very unclear on ingredients and dosage is almost impossible to gauge.

You have a pretty good list, unfortunately I haven't tried any of them though.

 

[lost weekend]

*sigh* I don't know why, but I expected such a reaction. The Internet became too predictable lately.

What?

Yes? Is it that hard to imagine a substance messing with your libido, especially long term, especially opiates?

Uhm, yes? Broad analogue laws makes it illegal, not grey. RCs were grey before those laws. Maybe where you live that's not the case, but here it definitely is. The only realistic solution is Tor, but at that point, I will just get anything, which I can't, because my situation currently makes this too risky.

If I say the continent, that will tell you nothing, if I say the country, how will you help? You will read the same laws I've read, although unlikely that you'll read any laws, you'll probably guess or read some wiki article or something. Also why would I want to publicly admit where I am? No, I'm not giving you GPS coordinates, but in niche forums like this with illegal discussions, I feel like it's kind of easy to extrapolate.

I think I've been as clear as I can be, but I guess it's hard to explain to fried brains.

A lot of people seem to get all of the side effects I mentioned even with "normal" use.

Very convincing, I mentioned I'm avoiding Kava because it's too expensive long-term and I should be happy that Phenibut gets expensive fast.

And as I mentioned, I'm not looking for something which will be used only for that.

Oh god I knew that this would happen in this forum, it's always the same in druggie communities. I don't know why I had a bit of hope even. It's just, you read what you want to read, understand how you want to understand and then just reply nonsense.

What colour are your eyes ?

 

[Halif2]

What colour are your eyes ?

Ha! Got 'eeem!

 

[Vastness]

fried brains ... druggie ... nonsense

Lol, chill out, no need for that. Why even visit this "druggie forum" if you have so little respect for drug users? That's rhetorical, no need to respond.

Also I'm not gonna force you to use phenibut, if you don't want to that's fine, I was just responding to your suggestion that "MAYBE someone could convince you otherwise" (that phenibut can be less "scary" than kratom). It sounds like you've made up your mind though so, fine, you don't want to do phenibut, I get it.

Neither do you need to say anything about where you're from, but the reason I was asking is because no one is going to be able to make their recommendations fit within your overly broad and vague specifications about legality and grey areas because substance laws vary widely all over the world. This is basically a "what should I take" thread wrapped in an unanswerable legal question because so many substances COULD fit your requirements but it's impossible to tell if they actually do. Whatever though I'll still try to help you out with a few more suggestions...

Firstly the obvious - you tried weed?

Besides that - possibly tianeptine, it's another opiate but assuming you don't go too overboard with usage or dosing I haven't noticed it to have any particularly negative sexual effects, and - again, assuming you don't go too overboard - it's still a fairly reliable mood lift and IMO more innocuous generally than kratom, although YMMV.

Coming at it from the supplement angle, if occasional use is all you're looking for, L-theanine megadoses are almost certain to be legal, and have almost no side effects, with the trade off being that if you're looking for a more powerful "drug effect", you might just find it too weak.

Continuing along the same lines, although the legality of these varies, you could try one of the more GABAergic nootropics such as aniracetam, or one of the more dopaminergic ones such as phenylpiracetam. Both have a definite effect, no real long term negatives or dangers to speak of, although you won't be able to do the latter particularly often due to rapid tolerance effects - aniracetam probably is more sustainable. Despite the fact that these are all definitely on the milder side, I'd always recommend people do check out the foundational 'racetam nootropics, piracetam, oxiracetam, pramiracetam possibly, just because although most people will get very very mild effects if any, some people for whatever reason are more strongly affected, and if nothing else they are almost certainly very safe. As far as sex and masturbation though if you take them too consistently for too long they all generally will have a slight negative effect on libido, so it really depends what kinda usage pattern you're intending.

What else... maybe modafinil? I'd say this fits pretty solidly into the "grey area" category although again it's difficult to say for sure if it works for you. For those who are affected it's a pretty solid long lasting dopaminergic stimulant with very few negatives, although as with anything else it's still possible for the character of the effect to change over time, to become slightly over-reliant on it, etc, etc. There's a fairly sharp genetic variance in whether or not you will even experience anything from it though, some people are just unaffected or very minimally affected, but for some it can be a very very mild euphoriant, even. Again - as with everything - occasional, responsible usage is necessary to maintain the positive effects while avoiding negatives.

That's everything I can think of for now. It's hard to say if these work as "alternatives to kratom" because kratom is quite a messy substance pharmacologically and different people prefer different aspects of the effect profile, if you're primarily a fan of the sedative aspects then obviously don't bother with modafinil, for example. Tianeptine might be the closest alternative just by virtue of the opioid action but in normal doses it's definitely less powerful than kratom, personally I would say it's also far cleaner, subjectively, but again with all of these, YMMV.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Kratom has no negative effect s on libido ime, but every one is different. Never had any problem s with Amphetamine or MDMA either. Personal chemistry.

So the to easy OTC ones that came to mind.

Durian great aphrodisiac mind blowing effect. Took in form of a candy bar thing made from the fruit s pulp. And it s odorous & the taste is also a bit mweh like. But the effect s very pronounced extended orgasm and magnified sensations. Don t combine with Alcohol it work s like Disulfiram. Lot s of Sulpher like component s in Durian explaining that rotten smell. So you get a Acetyldehyde effect.

Might i come across a equally willing partner this experiment is on my to do list. The effect were outstanding.

Creatine solved some physical ailment regarding blood flow and stamina pretty easy. Would i have known the effect s of it i might not have been Veggie in my mid twenties. Meat of dead animals that contain ao Protein s and that essential substance serve a role. Ever wondered veggies are so 'not horny' this might be the culprit.

Basil/ Basilicum great for the Penis and taste wise. Super healthy indulge in it. Which i might include personally Garlic is a anti-aphrodisiac for me, not solely by the smell it produces afterward s the consumption. Does something not beneficial. Basil counter s it somewhat. But ime leave it out altogether.

 

[N0ph0n0]

Do you guys even read? (Not you cnnka, the ones saying meth)

Yeah i just thought it was funny.