Lecturer says many don't recognize the truth about 'X'

E-llusion

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Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse and Snoopy are no longer just the faces of colorful cartoon images. They have also become the images printed on many pills reported to be ecstasy, said Bob Stutman during his lecture in the Marshall Center Ballroom on Monday night.

Stutman worked as head of the Drug Enforcement Administration for 25 years, seven of which he spent undercover. He retired 10 years ago and conducts lectures nationwide concerning drugs through programs such as the University Lecture Series. He also wrote the book "Dead on Delivery," which was turned into the Showtime movie Mob Justice. And according to Stutman, a Colombian Cartel once targeted him for assassination because of his work for the DEA.

In his lecture entitled "Ecstasy, : It's not a state of mind," he explained that cartoon figures or peace signs marked on the pills meant nothing about their quality.

"Unlike Tylenol with the symbol that lets you know it's valid, these pills are just a powder pumped through a machine with that symbol," he said. "As a DEA agent, I bought drugs from the highest cartels and had them tested, and 30 percent of the time the drug was not what it was reported to be. Instead, most pills are bunk," he said.

A bunk drug, he said, is ecstasy mixed with other drugs, such as PCP or LSD to name a few.

He added that recently three million drugs were seized with the Snoopy logo on them, and of those pills, they found 350 different chemicals in them.

He also warned against self-test scams such as those available from the E-Z Web Sites.

"I can guarantee our field tests are much more accurate than these tests, but even our tests are only 50 to 60 percent accurate," he said. "So someone may score a drug, scrape it in the E-Z tester and think it's OK, when they are really getting something entirely different."

He said the average college student who buys drugs gets a pill that has already been distributed among eight drug dealers worldwide, so it's unknown what is included in the drugs they are taking until they experience the side effects.

While ecstasy use everywhere is on a continuous incline, he said Tampa is one of the largest consumers of ecstasy in the nation on a per-capita basis.

He said people are seduced by the drug because they enjoy the immediate euphoria ecstasy offers, and they believe it is a "free-ride" drug without side effects. On the contrary, ecstasy is the most dangerous drug available. This is because it changes the chemical composition of the brain by releasing high levels of serotonin and blocking them from being absorbed by the brain. Thus the serotonin is left to "eat away" at the neurons, which is the control center for the nervous system, distorting the brain's profile, he said.

"One-time use of ecstasy has been found to cause measurable changes in the brain for up to seven years," he said. "And the studies have only been done for seven years, so the effects may remain longer."

He also said a majority of the research is available through Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and Oxford University.

"Do not make a mistake (by taking the drug) on no knowledge, stupid knowledge or peer pressure," he said. "If you don't believe (the dangers of the drug), look up the journals and you'll see (the drug) isn't a free-ride."

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Lecturer says many don't recognize the truth about 'X'

By Darcy O'Brien
Staff Writer
November 04, 2003
The Oracle

Link
 
"As a DEA agent, I bought drugs from the highest cartels and had them tested, and 30 percent of the time the drug was not what it was reported to be. Instead, most pills are bunk," he said.

Now which one is it, partner -- 30% of the time or most of the time?
 
He also warned against self-test scams such as those available from the E-Z Web Sites.

Hmm, scams eh ? Yeah better that people take pills without knowing what is in them. He is arguing against HIS OWN argument of not knowing what is in the pills and staying protected. Because people will take pills no matter what. Face the Reality MR. DEA.


While ecstasy use everywhere is on a continuous incline, he said Tampa is one of the largest consumers of ecstasy in the nation on a per-capita basis.

I bet he says the same thing about <insert location of lecture here> Any viable data to prove his point ?


"One-time use of ecstasy has been found to cause measurable changes in the brain for up to seven years," he said. "And the studies have only been done for seven years, so the effects may remain longer."

Uhm, yeah ok, and which studies are those ? Seven Year studies proven seven years brain damage right ? When do these people ever learn that by lying and spreading misinformation you will NOT prevent people from taking drugs.


:p
 
I actually found the speech to be less full of misinformation than a lot what we've seen in the past. As with any tense subject, there is going to be a lot of debate.

1. There is a long standing debate on whether E causes brain damage. The recent retraction of Ricaurte's studies gives a lot of credence to those who think E is harmless, but there are numerous other studies saying both that it is and is not terrible for your brain. To this particular DEA dude's credit, he explained the neurological effects of the drug [serotonin dump, no reuptake] quite well; the dispute is over whether those effects lead to damage and if so for how long. He simply took the view that it does cause damage...he didn't even say permanent damage.

2. It IS tough to know what you're getting. And test results are inaccurate. I like that he pointed that out, because a lot people think the EZ test is all they need.

That said, remember that the truth in a disupte lies in the middle. We push, they push, and the answer comes out. I think he's getting closer to an answer than they have in the past. I know (and I think a lot of other bluelighters know) that you REALLY come to the right answer if you use the stuff a lot. But, this is a step in the right direction.

I have enjoyed the way Bluelighters come out in droves to criticize the studies that are put up on our board. It shows me that ravers do have brains, and that we can't be that fried, because the criticisms are usually really smart. But there comes a point where we're jumping on studies and offical statements for the sake of jumping on them -- without recognizing how close we're getting to being recognized as a legitimate culture with legitimate desires -- and E being recognized as a little different from crack and heroin.

ok, i'm rambling now. bye.
 
This fucker is talking out of his ass and giving the concerned anti-users what they want to hear.

"Ecstasy is the most dangerous drug available."

How about PMA? How about PCP? How about any number of drugs that are proven to cause brain damage with recreational doses and/or can be quite lethal when taken unexpectedly? If ecstasy is the most dangerous drug available, maybe users should step it down a notch and smoke some crack?

"One-time use of ecstasy has been found to cause measurable changes in the brain for up to seven years."

I'm glad he pulled this out of his bag of tricks. Notable changes as in what? Benign little changes in neuron function, or as he put it, nerons that have been 'eaten away' by serotonin? Perhaps something completely unrelated. If anything, the debunking of this statement should just raise awareness that there are not enough studies being conducted.

"He also warned against self-test scams such as those available from the E-Z Web Sites."

Yeah it's really a scam. The company does not claim that drugs tested are safe, it just claims to do exactly what it does. Test for the presence of certain chemicals, whether they are there or not. After that it's all a user risk.

Maybe he should get back out in the field and make some more enemies, cause that hit needs to hurry up.
 
If a columbian cartel had a hit on him and he's still alive that really shows you that there just aren't any good assasins anymore.
 
alostlittlebird said:
This fucker is talking out of his ass and giving the concerned anti-users what they want to hear.


exaccttttly....
 
and E being recognized as a little different from crack and heroin.

What are you trying to say? All I'm getting is that you are anti-e. Your generalization is going nowhere, so please explain to me what you mean. Maybe it's just another drug that has a potential for great pain, but it's literally all in the way you look at it. I'd also like to point out that if everyone had that attitude we'd never get any research done.

Remember, this guy is talking about E and E is not MDMA. Of course, anyone with half a brain knows that E is hardly ever pure on the black market. It is the few lucky one's who actually do get their compounds from a chemist and can be completely sure of what they are getting. This DEA guy is basically just saying that black market drugs aren't safe and he is STILL spouting complete bullshit that cuts corners, goes around in circles, and makes disturbingly wide generalizations around the subject of ecstacy. My question is, what're you gonna do about all of the people dying from unpure pills? Go bust some more bad drug dealers? I don't see him making it any more safer, so fuck you DEA guy you don't get my sympathy or vote this time around. You're out there telling people lies and making them more confused, plus, you're getting all their money from your expensive lectures. Wow, you're an awesome person. Please, do us a favor and cut the bullshit because no matter what you think or how much ignorant people praise you, you're still just another mother fucker out there trying to doop yourself and us.

Also, E is completely and utterly different from crack and heroin, even if it's generally not pure. Anyone who is smart and who's used E as compared to crack cocaine or heroin can tell you that it is a whole lot better and there is a greater potential to get a lot more out of the experience and leave it with more ease, indeed if that is what you're looking for. Another thing, anybody ever think of the millions of changes from drugs like E that have helped people? Experience is proven to mold and change the brain, so what if one had a good and beneficial experience on E? Does it still mean that we're damaged goods? That our brain is fucked up and we need to see a psychologist for 4 years to the rest of our lives? Maybe some need care because the temptation to abuse was far too prominent for them, but what about the millions of people who've taken great things from E? How do you explain that in the black and white terms that our bureacracy tries to? You can't because almost nothing can be explained like that.

Peace
 
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These self proclaimed experts do no one any good.


still its not as bad, as that old copper/sherrif spouting stories about disco dumping. etc..
 
As a DEA agent, I bought drugs from the highest cartels and had them tested, and 30 percent of the time the drug was not what it was reported to be.

"I can guarantee our field tests are much more accurate than these tests, but even our tests are only 50 to 60 percent accurate," he said.

Hmm .. I'm no math whizz, but if their tests fail 40-50% of the time, this could explain that 30% ;)
On a related sarcastic note, becoming a DEA agent apparantely can hook you up with the 'highest cartels.'

I am a skeptic when it comes to all MDMA/ecstasy-related information. There is no doubt in my mind that this drug/drugs have the greatest amount of disinformation spread about them in the media ... most people have never even heard of MDMA, I'm sure some 'ecstasy' users don't even know what it is and have never experienced it.
And while I get infuriated by these biased studies with no factual evidence to support them, I still am not in the boat with most Bluelighters who seem to think that MDMA is completely harmless. Anything that burns you out that bad is not harmless, if you ask me.
But without a doubt, the most harm is caused by the Government and Media, with their dishonest reporting and spreading of BS lies. It does nothing to discourage usage, and only encourages more recklessness when users discover they've been lied to. It's sad that the Gov. has no actual interest in public health or safety, and would rather see thousands of kids get hurt/act irresponsibily/etc. rather than making sure people are educated and smart with their decisions.
:X
 
Jaymie, I think you need to read the last paragraph of my post again. I wasn't being anti-e, just trying to see the middle ground between us and them.

What I wrote was that raving is being recognized as a legitimate culture (and not a proxy for illegal drug activity) which is resulting in e being recognized as a little different from crack and heroin. When I said "a little different," I was being sarcastic with an understatement. E is actually very different from drugs like crack and heroin. In other words, although government sometimes acts like e is as bad as those other drugs, there has been a slow movement towards the middle ground, with some acceptance that if 1,000s of people use it every weekend and don't drop dead, it can't be THAT bad. My point was that bluelighters should be aware of the great strides we have made. This is not to say that the statement that started this post isn't full of misinformation...to be sure, it is. I just wanted to point out how that DEA statement is part of the gradual tide shift, if you look at it closely. And that is something we should be proud of, because our activism has paid off.

I actually am somewhat bothered that you think I'm anti-e. I think I'm anti-misinformation. I think people should make their own, informed choice. And I'm pleased that the dude's statement wasn't as dumb as the stuff that used to come out a year or two ago.
 
jaymie said:
Also, E is completely and utterly different from crack and heroin, even if it's generally not pure. Anyone who is smart and who's used E as compared to crack cocaine or heroin can tell you that it is a whole lot better..
Peace

I am smart and see just as many pros in heroin and just as many cons in E... I do agree that MDMA is a more useful psychotheraputic drug, but to say that someone is smart because they think E is better in general is not right.. Not saying that you said that, but i want to make it clear that a drug is a drug regardless..IMO if you use one, you are on the same level as the rest of us.. We get out of it what we bring to it.
 
The article did raise some valid points but they were totally obliterated by the mass of misinformation and propaganda.
 
A bunk drug, he said, is ecstasy mixed with other drugs, such as PCP or LSD to name a few.


Interesting how the two drugs he names are two OTHER drugs the media gets all wound up about as well, and not the much more common other drugs in pills like the legal, widely used drug caffiene.


Anyways pills don't have acid in them and Im pretty sure that pills with PCP in are either non existant, or extremely rare.


What a load of shit.
 
^^ Pills have been reported to have acid in them, not sure about the PCP, but I'm sure it's possible to lace a pill with anything (that includes the buzz word drugs, LSD and PCP)
 
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