Opioids Lean opinions

[Hezman94]

Give me pure codeine anyway these kids r asleep COS of the promethazine it isnhighly priced aswell. I could make the shit myself with cwe from chemist. And then watching YouTube videos of guys spending four thousand dollars on lean a week going its liquid heroin man.no it's liquid opiates yeah it turns into morphine same as heroin but codeine hasma ceiling dose aswell
Whoever distributing this stuff is making loads and I'm jealous

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Mate I know this idiot who paid £60 for a bottle of "lean." You know what it actually was? Regular OTC DXM cough syrup with a so obviously fake American prescription label stuck on the front.

I can almost understand it in the US where codeine seems genuinely rare, but how stupid do you have to be in the UK when you live in a country where codeine linctus 15mg/5ml is a legal OTC med you can buy cheaply from a chemist? You got these idiot kids paying Snapchat dealers stupid money for what is either diluted codeine linctus or DXM. And of course they cannot buy "lean" without also buying some "Xans" i.e. pressed bars containing antihistamines, doxepin, or if you're lucky etizolam.

What really pisses me off though is these dealers looking for codeine linctus to sell on to those morons has driven pharmacies to stop selling codeine linctus to anyone. I know some pharmacists and they've told me it's been restricted by distributors. It's on a watch list and pharmacies that used to sell it to me happily are now banned from ordering it. I hope this is eventually lifted once the hype wears down because I miss my easy, legal, cheap codeine supply.

 

[Hezman94]

I had thc syrup thirty quid it was labelled this does not contain codeine was great stuff. I can't find codeine linctus anywhere.
If that happened to me with all meds I'm on id go mad from the hallucinations and die very dangerous to do even a small amount of dxm smashes me then I feel weird the next day

 

[Nicomorphinist]

There was an article in The Bulletin of the National Codeine OTC Lobby back in 1998 or so about a police chief from some place who drove into an adjacent state and collected bottles of CSA 1970 Schedule V codeine and dihydrocodeine cough syrup for pain control for a rather serious condition, going from city to city and, on occasion, or maybe often, violating the 48-hour restriction there, and eventually being busted due to the efforts of some quisling junior detective pill roller. I admired his relative lack of remorse, and it would be nice if the fellow were the US Attorney General today, I'd wager. O, the lost world of 1998.

Come to find out that the same paroxysm of FDA foolishness in 1990 that removed OTC hyoscine and phenobarbitone combination products and lots of other venerable old things was of a piece with a rescheduling which moved old-time phenyltoloxamine-based Tussionex (which was better I can tell you, as I used to take hydrocodone with phenyltoloxamine all the time, it was almost as good as tripelennamine as a potentiator) from Schedule V to III. OTC/Exempt Narcotic hydro!

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Ah man dihydrocodeine cough syrup, I wish we had that. I'd honestly take it over Oramorph liquid as long as the concentration was strong.

Speaking of hopping about cities to get opioids though, I'm reminded of Rush Limbaugh. Spouting off about how addicts should be locked up then once he was busted with "enough OxyContin to kill an ox" after doctor shopping in multiple states he got off with a fine. Yet another example of what hypocrites the supporters of the "war on drugs" are.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

These are the cases that people, a lot of them probably owning stock or other interests in the relevant tech companies, and others like Nurse Ratchett type people who are just stone cold nuts, screamed and cried about trying to get prescription monitoring databases from coast to coast and Point Barrow to Key West, and I imagine there has been some impact on diversion -- including documented cases of pharmacists using the information and dramatic irony, the information differential, to terrorise customers and demand bribes from them.

 

[Hodor]

"Lean" is mostly one of those nostalgia/status things. Unlike the aforementioned rich old white guy Rush Limbaugh, financially destitute young black guys (as rappers tend to be before they make it big) basically had access to two types of opioid: Codeine-based cough syrup and heroin. Promethazine doesn't really "improve" the high beyond potentiating the sedating effects of the codeine; it's just an old phenothiazine-type antihistamine, so it blocks a whole bunch of histaminergic, serotonergic, dopaminergic, adrenergic and cholinergic receptors.

When Southern Hip Hop blew up on the scene, doing "lean" became a point of nostalgia, of pride, and of belonging... a way of showing that you remembered being a kid on the street. And even hip-hop fans who had grown up comfortably middle class started using lean to imitate their idols.

Naturally, this caused regulations around promethazine/codeine to be tightened, and some products to be withdrawn from the market (like Actavis, formerly considered the number one brand of codeine/promethazine syrup), which only made it more desirable for young rich guys with way more money than common sense (as rappers tend to be after they make it big): A product that simultaneously gave you street cred as an ex-poor-person, AND let you brag about how much money you were willing to wastefully spend as a member of the nouveau-riche.

These kinds of changes happen all the time: Until the late 19th century, lobster used to be considered a near-worthless byproduct of commercial fishing, a gross water bug barely considered appropriate for even indentured servants and prison inmates to eat on a regular basis. Once people figured out how to keep lobsters alive and refrigerated for transport, however, the rich people of the New York upper class suddenly made it a highly desirable delicacy; presumably, the associations around the product and its origins also changed around that time: Where originally people would associate lobsters with the abject poverty of Maine fishing villages, the upper crust living in the polluted city of New York would over time come to associate the coast of New England with clean air, and fishermen as a romanticized picture of physical strength and virility.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

"Lean" is mostly one of those nostalgia/status things. Unlike the aforementioned rich old white guy Rush Limbaugh, financially destitute young black guys (as rappers tend to be before they make it big) basically had access to two types of opioid: Codeine-based cough syrup and heroin. Promethazine doesn't really "improve" the high beyond potentiating the sedating effects of the codeine; it's just an old phenothiazine-type antihistamine, so it blocks a whole bunch of histaminergic, serotonergic, dopaminergic, adrenergic and cholinergic receptors.

When Southern Hip Hop blew up on the scene, doing "lean" became a point of nostalgia, of pride, and of belonging... a way of showing that you remembered being a kid on the street. And even hip-hop fans who had grown up comfortably middle class started using lean to imitate their idols.

Naturally, this caused regulations around promethazine/codeine to be tightened, and some products to be withdrawn from the market (like Actavis, formerly considered the number one brand of codeine/promethazine syrup), which only made it more desirable for young rich guys with way more money than common sense (as rappers tend to be after they make it big): A product that simultaneously gave you street cred as an ex-poor-person, AND let you brag about how much money you were willing to wastefully spend as a member of the nouveau-riche.

These kinds of changes happen all the time: Until the late 19th century, lobster used to be considered a near-worthless byproduct of commercial fishing, a gross water bug barely considered appropriate for even indentured servants and prison inmates to eat on a regular basis. Once people figured out how to keep lobsters alive and refrigerated for transport, however, the rich people of the New York upper class suddenly made it a highly desirable delicacy; presumably, the associations around the product and its origins also changed around that time: Where originally people would associate lobsters with the abject poverty of Maine fishing villages, the upper crust living in the polluted city of New York would over time come to associate the coast of New England with clean air, and fishermen as a romanticized picture of physical strength and virility.

This is a very good comment, and it's also a perfect explanation of why the rise in popularity within the UK is even more ridiculous. Codeine linctus 15mg/5ml (which is in fact higher than the 10mg/5ml concentration in the US) has been an OTC med here for decades. Promethazine, same deal. But if anything the pure codeine syrup is much nicer than a combination with promethazine which I find ruins the high, although it does potentate the sedation well.

Point is though codeine has never been scarce in the UK, it's never been expensive, it's never been associated with wealth or the UK hip-hop scene or anything. None of that cultural background applies here.

But you got these hypebeast teenagers listening to American rappers talk about sipping lean and they want to copy them. But they don't actually know anything about the drug itself, they just know it's cool. Cue teenagers paying ridiculous amounts of money for relabelled OTC cough medicine. As long as it has something mildly psychoactive in it the placebo effect will do the rest. Besides they're only buying the stuff to post it on Snapchat anyway.

Here is the "lean" my mate bought, check how so obviously fake this fucking is:

 

[Hezman94]

Yeah everyone knows lean is man made so why they putting pharmacy labels on I don't know?
It angers me cos codeine linctus is legal I think I'm the UK but no chemists stock it and I get funny looks asking

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Independent pharmacists used to stock it just a year ago. I used to do the local pharmacy rounds and come back with four bottles every week. Now none of them can order it anymore. Because of these stupid hypebeast kids ruining it for everyone else.

I hope this restriction is lifted when the hype passes.

Ah well I got a kilo of dried pods on the way. Fuck codeine!

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Ah man dihydrocodeine cough syrup, I wish we had that. I'd honestly take it over Oramorph liquid as long as the concentration was strong.

Speaking of hopping about cities to get opioids though, I'm reminded of Rush Limbaugh. Spouting off about how addicts should be locked up then once he was busted with "enough OxyContin to kill an ox" after doctor shopping in multiple states he got off with a fine. Yet another example of what hypocrites the supporters of the "war on drugs" are.

I'm familiar with Mr Limbaugh, going back to 1988 I think, and even though being somewhere betwixt the left wing of the ÖVP and Argentine Justicialists and therefore quite a way to the left of him, I found his programme entertaining especially for its vaudeville-like format in the first years. Also, I have always had the attitude, that I know why I think what I think, so I want to hear what the opposition and/or other new people have to say. He got very famous, then I detected a slight softening in some of his opinions late in the Clinton administration and a telling hyperactivity, then he went deaf, then he was busted. Then I found out that RealPlayer sucks and figured that streaming and all that was too much trouble.

When I was back in North America and heard the programme again in 2016 for the first time since, well it was even before the 11. September 2001 atrocities I think, it was, it was a lucid, laser-focussed three-hour rant. Very impressive from a technical proficiency standpoint, especially considering that he is going on 20 years doing the show this way and holding a large audience of American-style conservatives, libertarians of many descriptions, and maybe even today a small motley crew on the left and off of the American political spectrum altogether, but the rant itself was boring as fuck from a political science standpoint. Mean-spirited too. Like calling an, admittedly class-insensitive and intellectually dishonest, Congressional witness a slut. That was beyond the pale as well.

Of course it was oxycodone -- he liked it because of its cocaine-like come-up and sustained stimulation that comes from it. I was initiated on narcotics with 14-dihydromorphinones (hydrocodone) and will die probably in the early XXII,.Century pretty much fossilised by them, but I could not take oxycodone on a sustainable basis because of the stark insomnia and eventual physical collapse like I was on a physiologically and spiritually healthier version of a coke orgy. Part of it could be my quirky metabolism, but scientists were commenting on this since the 1920s and William S Burroughs wrote about it in a famous letter to Allen Ginsburg from Tangier in 1952. Then probably the chronic paracetamol overdose led to ototoxicity. I had that once too, but 1250 on a cholesterol test was what got me off of it permanently.

I think the current transformation of the Rush Limbaugh Programme is post-acute withdrawal syndrome writ large. And it should be a lesson to the abstinence-only Marathon Man rehab racketeers and their bag men and ladies in DC and media about what they want to do to their country and apparently have echo elsewhere in the Anglophone world. "Partnership for a Drug Free America" -- freakin tardigrades in space probably aren't even drugs-free you eejits.

The man's raw and refined talent is beyond dispute -- give him a long course of D and he could re-join the human race perhaps.

 

[Nicomorphinist]

I think the ruining of the narcotic high by promethazine is down to an effect I have read about in nursing manuals, package inserts, and the like about it interfering with the analgesia, which is why I would take half a tablet of Atosil with lunch about 14.30 in the afternoon every day and the other half at bed time to have a low amount of it my system all the time, and then when it was time for the prodrug narcotics like codeine, nicocodeine, dihydrocodeine, hydrocodone, thebacon &c I would stack it, as the iron-pumpers like to say, with tripelennamine and/or phenyltoloxamine, orphenadrine, and naproxen.

The Atosil/Phenergan was a conscious replacement for glutethimide (Doriden) and it is an imperfect one. Even my doctor gave me Dors & Fours for pain control to forestall the time we would need higher-scheduled narcotics and attract the attention of what he called the "pigs," meaning more the inspectors than the cops, who originally had a nearly impossible job second in difficulty only to soldiers, and now dumb politicians give them drugs laws to start a war betwixt them and the public.

Harm-Reduction Note: Continuous high doses of promethazine are weakly linked to leaky anus, my old antihistamine enthusiast allergist told me once before writing for 720 tablets of phenindamine and 15 of promethazine. He was a genius. Of course, DTO (Laudanum) does help with leaky anus a bit.

 

[Missgreenewne]

I hate how the hip-hop scene glorifies lean but views heroin users as junkies. Sorry I’m getting higher than you.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Doriden

That's the drug I've been trying to remember that dramatically increases the conversion of codeine to morphine! I would love to get my hands on it if it was still around.

According to Wiki:

When taken with codeine, (known on the streets as "hits", "cibas and codeine ", "Dors and 4s") it enables the body to convert higher amounts of the codeine to morphine. The general sedative effect of the glutethimide also adds to the effect of the combination.[4] It produces an intense, long lasting euphoria similar to IV heroin use.

Holy fuck man with how easy it is to obtain codeine, a pill that makes it feel as good as IV heroin would be the dog's bollocks.

I hate how the hip-hop scene glorifies lean but views heroin users as junkies. Sorry I’m getting higher than you.

They have begun glorifying oxy now so I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a few rappers ended up with smack habits...

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Reportedly manufacturing of Doriden ceased in Hungary in 2006 and I did my last Load with chewed-up extended-release dihydrocodeine in October 2017. Another drug I miss is thebacon, which is acetylated hydrocodone, also acedicon, which is like the heroin analogue of hydromorphinol. I believe the lack of availability of Dors in Central and South-East Europe has more to do with market and supply-chain issues than the way it was hunted down like dogs by the government and busybodies in the United States in the 1980s, These days, there is in fact small-scale underground clandestine manufacture of glutethimide in the United States, Mexico, and maybe even Colombia. If it cranked up in the Biqa Valley in Lebanon alongside hash and Captagon and meth during the recent unpleasantness, it might have been available on the European black market for all we know.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I wonder if we'd have any better luck with T's & Blues. Pentazocine ( Fortral Injection 30mg/ml ) and tripelennamine .

Or.. "The euphoric effect of tripelennamine makes these combinations more than the sum of their parts, and it is qualitatively and quantitatively different from that of the ethanolamine antihistamines such as diphenhydramine and orphenadrine in that there is much less anticholinergic impact—the mixing of opioids and anticholinergics is vividly illustrated by the combination drugs Skophedal (scopolamine, ephedrine, and eucodal (oxycodone)) and Twilight Sleep (scopolamine and morphine) which are/were used particularly for nerve pain and produce very deep analgesia and are profoundly powerful euphoriants"

 

[Nicomorphinist]

Blue Velvet, morphine and tripelennamine, which I take medicinally, is even better, and I remember Scophedal and still get 20 doses a month from a compounding apothecary for breakthrough pain and it is everything it was advertised as by Merck, Dr Kirschner, the Wehrmacht and more . . . I have used hyoscine and morphine together for insomnia. -- up the morphine proportion and there is not necessarily anything twilight about Dämmerschlaf, or if there was, I did not remember it. Propofol is the modern drug used for that purpose medically, but Michael Jackson is probably in Heaven recording commercials for the old school mixture.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

"Gimme my milk, (propofol is milky white) I need my milk or I can't sleep. I took my Sublimaze and all of the benzos I have doctor Conrad, now gimme my milk" MJ's last words. Conrad Murray was playing with fire. Propofol & Fent as a bedtime regimen on top of benzos every night? He never stood a chance. Then again that was a mighty big pie to slice up and dish out to each person trying to get something. No wonder thay never intervened with Dr. Conrad Murray.

Seems like you've come across all the obscure greats NicoMorph, are you in Portugal or the Netherlands? Have you ever come across Dextromoramide?

 

[Nicomorphinist]

And all I heard about on the news the first few days was Dilaudid. I wonder if that was the beginning on the opiate Stalinism of late in the States. Propofol does work in my case, but anaesthesiologists have always opted for essentially pre-1950 techniques on me on account of allergies and metabolic quirks, so it is an incrementation upon Scophedal, Dämmerschlaf, or Levorphanol-Nitrous Oxide for endoscopies, office procedures, and oral surgery, and I am not really completely certain what they would do if they had to take out a kidney or something. On one occasion when I was younger, the dentist had ether and used it for a root canal treatment.

I am in and originally from Austria but have been around, and I am familiar with dextromoramide, liked it very much, and think the Dutch authorities are very wise to consider palf as an option for methadone folks who are getting tempted. The dextromoramide was specifically for breakthrough pain early in the day, and after oral dosing the rapidity with which it started working and the steepness of increase made it good for shattering pain, rather than a more subtle easing away of pain. Basically the difference betwixt a high and low explosive from a results standpoint, brisance I believe the term in the industry is . . .

Soon as it was available and I was getting scripts for it, there was a supply disruption within a year. Precursor chemicals, reportedly. I was at one point concerned that I could be filling the last script for it ever filled in at least the Northern Hemisphere. But it is back in a number of countries, several in the Schengen Zone last I saw. That and piritramide (Dipidolor) made me make sure I found the statue of Dr Paul Janssen, the inventor of both as well as fentanyl, diphenoxylate, loperamide, haloperidol and so many other things, on my next trip to the Benelux countries.