LDN for reducing opioid tolerance

[allone]

I tried it with suboxone and noticed nothing. Arenr many people prescribed opioids and memantine together. Like alzheimer's patients on opioids. Idk... are u sure it was that combo and not some other drug. What dose did u do. I never drunk alcohol in 5 years btw

ok so maybe it was memantine, suboxone and regular high alcohol use. i took like 20mg memantine as far as i remember. i didnt take more than 8mg suboxone though. i was drinking heavily and i was sober the day i took em together, and felt like some kind of a mental meltdown. but thats very specific to me and i havent read other reports on it. i assume if you are regular drinker, this might happen to you too though

 

[copium7777]

am struggling to fight withdrawal of 200+mg morphine with memantine (yesterday 80mg which finally took most but still some physical distress, lethargy coupled with insomnia, headache, heavy yawning, runny nose, nausea). As where I live atm most medicine is without Rx, guess I could get a box of naltrexone tomorrow and create solution again. If ULN would be of help even in withdrawal, which I question somewhat?

Memantine is a weird one. Yeah, it takes almost every symptom of opioid withdrawal, you don't feel like shit, no depression, no loneliness, no anxiety, no sweats, no puking, but you're still withdrawing - for me, I feel how much energy my body needs to do all these changes, today I slept most of the day and felt heavy tiredness.. but compared to cold w/d it's really a walk in the park. Guess together with low-dose amphetamine and/or some lope it would catch all.
Also the potentiation is real shit. 10mg of morphine felt yesterday almost like 200mg before, not exactly, in that it's more clear but the strength is there...

Papers tell 10mg memantine is enough to do a some 5x potentiation of opioids or more but that is in opioid naive rats. Start slow, as said the potentiation is real and heavy - you won't die of it though, I guess it doesn't affect the respiratory depression as I did other, more potent dissociatives before while continuing on the same dose of morphine without physically ill effects. For w/d be prepared to require way more than 20mg. Even with 80mg I don't feel the slightest hint of dissociation now.

Does memantine reset opioid tolerance or not. I'm not just looking for something to help w withdrawal, I'm looking to lower tolerance if not totally reset it. My neurologist actually prescribed memantine but we are starting with 5 mg. Do you think 80 mg is necessary to achieve the resetting tolerance? Are those higher doses ever tested therapeutically, are they commonly used recreationally, and are they safe? Do you need them to have an effect on tolerance? I wouldn't want to run out of my prescribed memantine but I could use the Indian pills I bought although unsure whether tontrust their quality. Or the powder although its pain to encapsulate.

Non specific cholinergic antagonist like mecamylamine or memantine (or even simple cough syrup DXM) would probably do the same.

Does memantine really have anti cholinergic properties... when I looked this up ppl suggested it didn't enough to interact with meds like benadryl or cyproheptadine


@sekio @dopamimetic would you trust memantine powder ... may have been left in warm car once or something, I think likelier left in cold car... it doesnt look degraded... and would you trust the standard indian brand pills .. idk if it's just a racist myth that a lot of indian pharmaceuticals have lead or contaminants

 

[allone]

you should repost this. i kind of missed it the other few times

 

[Tramalala]

I've been using ULDN for the last week or so in different dosages to help reduce tolerance and eventually quit dosing O-DSMT daily. I think I noticed a small (but noticeable? possibly placebo) reduction in tolerance dosing 1,5-5mcg of naltrexone. I've worked up to around 40-50mcg now and the reduction in tolerance is a lot more noticeable now. It's also way easier to get out of bed without using anything, I still feel kind of cold and demotivated but it's not this terrible sweaty, disgusting cold shivers feeling I would otherwise get. It also really potentiates my doses now. The addict part of my brain is wondering now if its possible to keep using like this without an increase in tolerance. Does anyone have experience in using this longterm to maintain a certain opioid dose? It's hard to find info about this online. Not many people seem to have tried this. (?)

I'll first stick to my original play though, which is to lower my dose and stop using for a bit after that. It's damn hard though. Motivation for sober life seems to have disappeared over the years.



Also @copium7777 just wanted to let you know I've been lurking around here for a long term and I'm sorry for your situation man! I hope you get your life back and you don't have to resort to the option in Switzerland... My thoughts are with you brother. Appreciate your posts here.

 

[allone]

so i still have those 50mg naltrexone pills laying around and i havent touched them because i drink and opiate myself. is it a good idea really? i wont take the whole 50mg pill, but cut it in tiny bits. would it WD my ass into oblivion? is all i need to know really, thanks!

 

[Tramalala]

so i still have those 50mg naltrexone pills laying around and i havent touched them because i drink and opiate myself. is it a good idea really? i wont take the whole 50mg pill, but cut it in tiny bits. would it WD my ass into oblivion? is all i need to know really, thanks!

I had 50mg naltrexone pills too, well capsules actually. I first dropped 1 capsule, 50mg, in 500ml of bottled water. Then shook that properly for a while, when I thought its probably distributed quite well I took 1ml from that and dropped it in a 330ml bottle. Then shook that bottle. Then I tried 1ml of that and worked my way up from there. Cutting up the pill to 50 pieces sounds difficult and probably not very effective. Volumetric dosing will be way easier!

This site might be of help to you to calcute dosages: https://volume.tripsit.me/

 

[allone]

oh ok thanks, thats interesting. but my actual question is, IF i pop a whole pill or maybe even half at 25mg, would I be put into instant withdrawal if im currently drinking and opiating myself? i mean, i wont do it exactly as i am, but like even 8 hours later, i know the opiates will be in there. not sure if alcohol stays in your system if you are regular drinking tho. but anyway is it a good idea? would it make me sick??

 

[copium7777]

oh ok thanks, thats interesting. but my actual question is, IF i pop a whole pill or maybe even half at 25mg, would I be put into instant withdrawal if im currently drinking and opiating myself? i mean, i wont do it exactly as i am, but like even 8 hours later, i know the opiates will be in there. not sure if alcohol stays in your system if you are regular drinking tho. but anyway is it a good idea? would it make me sick??

Idk but thata literally not LDN so it sorta unprecedented and off topic

 

[copium7777]

Does memantine reset opioid tolerance or not. I'm not just looking for something to help w withdrawal, I'm looking to lower tolerance if not totally reset it. My neurologist actually prescribed memantine but we are starting with 5 mg. Do you think 80 mg is necessary to achieve the resetting tolerance? Are those higher doses ever tested therapeutically, are they commonly used recreationally, and are they safe? Do you need them to have an effect on tolerance? I wouldn't want to run out of my prescribed memantine but I could use the Indian pills I bought although unsure whether tontrust their quality. Or the powder although its pain to encapsulate.

Does memantine really have anti cholinergic properties... when I looked this up ppl suggested it didn't enough to interact with meds like benadryl or cyproheptadine


@sekio @dopamimetic would you trust memantine powder ... may have been left in warm car once or something, I think likelier left in cold car... it doesnt look degraded... and would you trust the standard indian brand pills .. idk if it's just a racist myth that a lot of indian pharmaceuticals have lead or contaminants

So I think memantine is helping tolerance a bit even at smaller doses but I'd like to know if these larger doses are really so magical in helping with tolerance and if they are safe. My neurologist said I could go from 5 mg daily to 10 mg. However I really think glycine site specific nmda antagonists are but future and most important class and besides gaboxadol,they are the drugs I most want custom syntheses of
Memantine seems to be helping w tolerance but I would really like to try higher doses. I'm pretty sure the person who totally reset their tolerance used doses 4 times what I use. I also really want to work on getting A custom synthesis of one of the glycine site specific nmda antagonists, the ones besides xenon, like glyx13 or the other ones ... Need to look on the diScord to see if anyone is interested. The glycine site specific nmda antagonists have such a High priority. Unless its the trek channel or other ion channel stuff, glycine site nmda antagonism is how xenon is able to work its magic without the harm that , for example, ketamine causes. And besides rat and maybe one or two human studies there's not much in the other ones besides xenon in that class. Nmda is involved in everything from upregulation in brain injury like the stretch injury in cci, to pain and opioid tolerance , to mood, to modulating glutamate which is released in excess in response to biotoxins. I believe people have underrated the importance of nmda antagonists in treating me/cfs bc the non glycine site ones come with so many side effects vs and aren't as incredibly Neuro protective

 

[copium7777]

@dopamimetic what's the deal with memantine dosing. Other day, over 24 hours after I took memantine , I take a decent but not huge ketamine dose and trip out in an unpleasant way, is memantine that strong and long lasting it can potentials drugs in the same class that much

 

[copium7777]

I've been using ULDN for the last week or so in different dosages to help reduce tolerance and eventually quit dosing O-DSMT daily. I think I noticed a small (but noticeable? possibly placebo) reduction in tolerance dosing 1,5-5mcg of naltrexone. I've worked up to around 40-50mcg now and the reduction in tolerance is a lot more noticeable now. It's also way easier to get out of bed without using anything, I still feel kind of cold and demotivated but it's not this terrible sweaty, disgusting cold shivers feeling I would otherwise get. It also really potentiates my doses now. The addict part of my brain is wondering now if its possible to keep using like this without an increase in tolerance. Does anyone have experience in using this longterm to maintain a certain opioid dose? It's hard to find info about this online. Not many people seem to have tried this. (?)

I'll first stick to my original play though, which is to lower my dose and stop using for a bit after that. It's damn hard though. Motivation for sober life seems to have disappeared over the years.



Also @copium7777 just wanted to let you know I've been lurking around here for a long term and I'm sorry for your situation man! I hope you get your life back and you don't have to resort to the option in Switzerland... My thoughts are with you brother. Appreciate your posts here.

Is o dsmt free of the negative serotonergic effects of tramadol btw

 

[Tramalala]

Is o dsmt free of the negative serotonergic effects of tramadol btw

Yes, it is. It does have some NRI activity though, I definitely feel a lot of energy at the start of the high compared to say codeine or dihydrocodeine.
It doesn't have any of the serotonergic "energy" and seizure-like shakiness that tramadol has on higher doses(300/400mg+).

 

[Tramalala]

Is dropping it in a water bottle really that hard?

 

[allone]

Is dropping it in a water bottle really that hard?

ive no idea ive never done it. but i asked the question million of times if its ok to use even low dose naltrexone while regularly drinking or taking opiates once a while a good idea. and i never had the answer to this! maybe its really hard to figure out eh

 

[Tramalala]

ive no idea ive never done it. but i asked the question million of times if its ok to use even low dose naltrexone while regularly drinking or taking opiates once a while a good idea. and i never had the answer to this! maybe its really hard to figure out eh

It will send you straight into withdrawals. Depends which dose you take and how addicted you are how severe these precipitated withdrawals will be. From what I've read online they are HELL, no experience with them myself.

 

[Xorkoth]

When people talk about low dose naltrexone, they're talking about microdoses, like micrograms, not milligrams.

 

[copium7777]

When people talk about low dose naltrexone, they're talking about microdoses, like micrograms, not milligrams.

That's not true. "Low dose naltrexone " is in the milligrams range, and "ultra low dose naltrexone " is in the micrograms range.

 

[copium7777]

dose naltrexone while regularly drinking or taking opiates once a while a good idea. and i never had the answer to this! maybe its really hard to figure out eh

Maybe you just need more patience... I would've told u the straightforward answer yo this any time. It has no interaction with alcohol, and as far as opioids it's more complex but still doable (it is fine to take together with no preparation or precautions if you're opioid naive--i believe it can only precipitate withdrawals in people who are tolerant.) Even in tolerant people its doable but ultra low dose is safer than LDN range. The whole problem of precipitation of withdrawals is a real possibility but is overblown, to the extent that I've heard some doctors say their opioid naive patients on LDN have to get off the LDN when they get on short courses of pain meds for a surgery, bc they dont understand the nuances of the interaction. Basically, in every single case if u start the LDN before the opioid, it may as well be impossible to precipitate withdrawals. One guide from a guy who says he has used LDN (at somewhat high end of range like 4 or 5 mg) to stop opioid withdrawals or tolerance but had to go off opioids first and start the ldn, then get back in them. Some people instead opt to just start with uLDN which rarely or never causes precipitated withdrawals (I've never heard of it at that dose range but I suppose I shouldn't say never without literature showing it) , then gradually work their way up to LDN, if they are on opioids and cant go off them even short term but want to use ldn. Personally I'm currently dependent on opioids and use LDN and have never ever had a precipitated withdrawal but I may be exceptional or weird .

Anyway. There you go. Uldn is a different beast than ldn, but they are similar and both are worth trying g

 

[allone]

OK so is naltrexone good idea to use for opiate overdose? like that spray, which contains naloxone. is naltrexone like naloxone in such manner? i know naloxone is only 30 mins reliable to get you off the opioid receptors and you stabilize yourself and as such i always appreciated such function as i can get my opioid receptors back to normal within 1 hour and feeling the high again but without the OD. do you assume naltrexone works in similar way? if so, does it only last 1 hour or so? does naltrexone make you WD for more than hour ?? that will be a huge problem!!!!

 

[Nagelfar]

When I had my ‘revival’ experience with Narcan, resuscitated five times in ten minute intervals, I was certainly glad it was naloxone and not naltrexone. By the third time (if not the second, memory is foggy for the first several instances of Narcan administration) I was watching the clock to count to ten for when it would be over (physician's assistant informed me of the ten minute duration) before promptly blacking out and going over it again.

I laud the policy of repeated use of naloxone instead of a single use of naltrexone, the suffering produced if they did the latter would be unconscionable. The obvious responses from patients and the Hippocratic Oath is by-and-large why naltrexone isn't used for such things, I would imagine.