Labels for sexual orientation oversimplify everyone's taste

[rolodex propaganda]

If anybody has seen the south park episode titled "Two naked men in a hot tub" or something of the sort, this diatribe should ring a bell.

Although almost nobody is 100% straight or gay, or perfectly inbetween, we attempt to use labels to explain sexuality. In pre-Christian Roman society, everybody was assumed to be bisexual and your orientation was determined based on your preference of being dominant or submissive.

Another alternative is the Kinsey scale, which rates sexuality from 1 (exclusively heterosexual) to 7 (exclusively homosexual). While this provides over twice as many options, I feel like a grid, with preference of gender on one axis, and preference of domination being on the other, would be the most accurate way to label sexual orientation.

While I can only have emotions towards a woman, it is possible for me to be sexually attracted to a more feminine man, although I may only find a "very attractive" man to be equally attractive as a "somewhat attractive" woman. Although I would not date a man, I have messed around in a group setting with my girlfriend. and enjoyed it. Most of my close friends, even those who identify as totally gay or straight, admit to not being on the farthest possible side of the spectrum, but choose to identify as "straight" or "gay" rather than "bi" because they would not want to hook up with someone they could not possibly feel emotions towards, or because that part of them is "small" and "negligible".

I feel like those of us who fall between the cracks of the three labels are misrepresented even though we represent a majority. Westernization and christianity are the primary culprits that encourage people to attempt to suppress their same-sex desires.

 

[lola]

In the website fetlife there are several options for sexual orientation - two I really liked were "heteroflexible" and "homoflexible", meaning you're mostly gay/straight but would have sex outside your orientation in certain circumstances. Looking on Craigslists and how many men identifying as straight get the odd urge to suck cock, I think that's a good definition. I also know there are gay men who fancy sleeping or making out with a woman as a one-off. I identify myself as heteroflexible because I wouldn't date a woman but can have fun with a girl from time to time, though preferable in a threesome/group sex scenario rather than 1 on 1. Another definition was "pansexual" which means you are attracted to everyone, including transgendered and cross-gendered people. I guess society is more complex these days gender-wise than it used to be...

 

[double ewe]

while on the one-hand i get that labels tend to define more concrete boundaries than actually exist, i also feel like most socially-progressive/open-minded people understand that there are blurred lines and lots of overlap.

personally, while i have no qualms or insecurities regarding homosexuality, i identify as 100% heterosexual. there's never been a guy i've been attracted to or a time when i've wanted any kind of sexual/romantic contact with a man.

 

[GenericMind]

Although almost nobody is 100% straight or gay

Could you elaborate? Most of the people I know seem to be one or the other only.

 

[MgmtBlue]

Personally, I don't care for labels but I am over worrying about what people think. I'm not going to slap a label on myself to make someone else comfortable.

 

[rolodex propaganda]

Could you elaborate? Most of the people I know seem to be one or the other only.

Kinsey's orginal reports, which interviewed 6,000 subjects twenty years before the sexual revolution, said that 46% of interviewees had a score of 1 (incidentally homosexual) or above on a scale of 0-6. More recent polls and studies put the number at 60-80%. Most studies show an equal distribution between each score.

I theorize hat most people you know only seem to be one or the other because they, perhaps subconciously, suppress their homosexual tendencies not because of homophobia, but because the westernized majority is convinced that pre/extra-relationship sex is deviant, and by identifying as a 1 or 5, one recognizes that they can incidentally hook up with, but not have emotions for, a certain gender. Sex outside of relationships or with multiple partners is perceived by most to be significantly more deviant than exclusive homosexuality.

This is a result of christianization and heterosexualization. If you lived in pre-Christian Rome, most people you know would not be one way or the other.

 

[GenericMind]

I'm still confused. Level of perceived deviance of an act doesn't dictate sexual preference. I may find having multiple partners more deviant than an exclusive homosexual relationship, but I'd participate in the former and never the latter.

So I consider myself heterosexual because I wouldn't engage in sexual activity with a male under any circumstance. Are you saying that someone like me is in the minority or that someone like me is just confused about their true sexuality?

 

[rolodex propaganda]

I'm still confused. Level of perceived deviance of an act doesn't dictate sexual preference. I may find having multiple partners more deviant than an exclusive homosexual relationship, but I'd participate in the former and never the latter.

So I consider myself heterosexual because I wouldn't engage in sexual activity with a male under any circumstance. Are you saying that someone like me is in the minority or that someone like me is just confused about their true sexuality?

Deviance and societal norms dictate sexual preference indirectly rather than directly; Most people who are actually a 1 or 5 on the Kinswy scale polarize to a 0 or 6. Modern day Kinsey reports show an equal distribution between each score, meaning that exclusively heterosexual individuals make up no more than 1/7 of the population.

 

[TheMagikProfessor]

Deviance and societal norms dictate sexual preference indirectly rather than directly; Most people who are actually a 1 or 5 on the Kinswy scale polarize to a 0 or 6. Modern day Kinsey reports show an equal distribution between each score, meaning that exclusively heterosexual individuals make up no more than 1/7 of the population.

source?

 

[calmAnimal]

haha i kinda have thought about this for awhile. its not as black and white as we make it out to be.

and GM im not saying anything about your orientation, but society has almost made it cool to "sleep around" at our age (early to mid 20s) and i actually feel the same way you do, i have no problem having multiple sexual partners but would never never do anything with another man. but i dont know if it has been drilled in to me that "i aint no fag" or what. its worked and there is no way that i could do it. however in a different society, who knows.

 

[DexysMidnightRuner]

Could you elaborate? Most of the people I know seem to be one or the other only.

imo being completely straight or completely gay just isnt true. im sure there are people who are but i know alot of people who are not ie: a girl gets turned on by another girl, and would conduct sexual relations with her. however she would not date this girl, only males.

that just shows she is sexually attracted to girls but not mentally, so i think that would make her straight. imo. but i know alot of girls like that, and they are considered straight. i however do think there is a double standard. guys cant do that. society says guy on guy is gay no, not hot but girl on girl now thats right. if your male and you hook up with a male, most will see you as gay.


totally none scientific way to say it but i just woke up so im not thinking clearly yet. >.< ha

 

[rolodex propaganda]

source?

"Kinsey reported that most American males fell in the 1 to 2 range of the scale and that a large majority appeared to be at least somewhat bisexual (in the 1 to 5 range)"
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation

Most studies on sexual demographics were done before the 1990s as research has transitioned from sexual orientation demographics to gender and HIV studies, even interest and public acknowlegement of bisexuality have grown. When I was researching for the "equal distribution" figure, I encountered polls on various websites which I now recognize as unquotable due to the vast differences in demographic bases of each website. A poll on a bodybuilding forum yielded 60% heterosexuality while several on lgbt websites yielded results lower than 10%.

I propose that this thread be turned into a poll, or that a new thread be started specifically for the purpose. Drug use the the likelihood of participation on bluelight is consistent among various orientations, so a poll on Bluelight should yield results that accurately reflect actual demographics. My girl is picking me up for an adventourous day and rave tonight right now, but I will get on this tomorrow.

In the meantime, I ask: Why did the majority of both ancient Greek and Roman cultures partake in bisexual activities? Surely, if the majority were repulsed by such a thing, they would not have continued to partake, generation after generation. Nobody can say that Rome and Greece had more bisexuals than "normal" cultures, since sexual orientation is caused by the same universal biological factors in every society. If these two pre-Christian societies consisted of mostly "bisexual" individuals, then wouldn't that imply that all less open-minded societies share the same actual distribution, even though most individuals suppress or will not admit their sexuality?

I'm not saying that exclusive hetero/homosexuality is nonexistant, simply overrepresented. Modern norms pressure individuals to polarize towards whichever end of the spectrum they are most comfortable with. I'm not encouraging anybody to identify as bisexual, but instead to eschew all labels and recognize that not all is black, white, or one shade of gray.

 

[GenericMind]

In the meantime, I ask: Why did the majority of both ancient Greek and Roman cultures partake in bisexual activities? Surely, if the majority were repulsed by such a thing, they would not have continued to partake, generation after generation. Nobody can say that Rome and Greece had more bisexuals than "normal" cultures, since sexual orientation is caused by the same universal biological factors in every society. If these two pre-Christian societies consisted of mostly "bisexual" individuals, then wouldn't that imply that all less open-minded societies share the same actual distribution, even though most individuals suppress or will not admit their sexuality?

Using one or two examples of societies that had prevalent bisexuality is no different than using one or two cultures that don't. You certainly can't use so few examples to claim that they represent the natural tendencies of the entire species.

Greeks and Romans were bisexual, so other cultures are repressing their sexuality.

OR

Americans and Europeans are straight or gay, so other cultures are confused.

OR

Iran claims to have no homosexuals, so countries with homoseuxality are unnatural.

 

[Mysterier]

removed impertinent bantering. please reply with consideration of the topic at hand, please. thanks.

 

[KamMoye]

to OP:

this is what making a smart-alecky kind of post gets you: a bunch of people doing the same.

i would like to discuss this with you, really, i would, but what are you trying to get from this thread? so far i can say this: i agree.

what now?

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

It's entirely possible to be a bisexual man or woman but this does not mean that all humans or most people are bisexual, or actually are somehow sexually attracted to both genders or sexes or that they want sex with the same and opposite gender but that they're somehow covering this up because of society, religion-whatever their religion/spirituality is, or Western society. Heterosexism and Heterocentrism and fear just keep people who are gay/bisexual or lesbian from coming out.

My friends that are straight/hetero really are straight/hetero and don't want any sex with the same sex/gender and don't have any sort of sexual attraction to the same gender at all.

My gay male friends are being truthful when they've told me how even if they did have sex with women at one point when they were younger they were not attracted to women at all but they did it because they were closeted and thought it would make them "straight", or in some cases they thought they were bisexual just because they dated and had previous sexual experiences with women but they've never had any sexual attraction toward any woman at all.
Lots of my gay male friends have never ever had sex with women at all because they don't want to, never have wanted to, and the idea of doing or having any type of sex with a woman is a total turn off to them.

Kinsey never claimed that most people are bisexual or falling inbetween Zero (Hetero/straight) on his scale, and 6 (gay/lesbian on his scale). He and his sexuality researchers never theorized that it's completely impossible for someone to be Heterosexual or Gay/lesbian.

Freud on the other hand did theorize about how everyone is born bisexual but since there are people who are straight/hetero or gay/lesbian and they're born with their orientation this is not true.

Not everyone in Roman society was presumed to be bisexual or was bisexual by default. Slaves and women were submissive or the ones being penetrated and not in power, and men were the ones that did the penetration-although I'm sure there were many that did get fucked in secret since to be on the receptive end for anal sex was seen something that made a man very weak and feminine. Even back then in Roman society while people were open about being sexually attracted to both men and women or what we'd call bisexuality this doesn't mean that everyone was bisexual, that nobody was straight/hetero or gay/lesbian, and bisexuality and even homosexuality in Ancient times was very different than what it's like today.

Not all sexualities were accepted in Ancient Greece or in Rome. Men may have been able to have certain types of sex with other men then but it was forbidden to bottom or have receptive anal sex as men were only supposed to penetrate. Different regions and city-states in Greece practiced different types of sex between men. The ancient greeks and romans were also into doing things sexually that in our modern day society we would find illegal today. It's not a secret how in some Ancient Greek city states pedastry happened between men and boys. In Ancient Rome male and female slaves who many Roman citizens and upper class Romans owned could be legally raped because they were slaves. One Roman historian came into contact with Celts and he was totally disgusted by the way some Celt men had same sex via mutual masturbation together.


What you're describing with sexuality on a grid has been done by Dr. Fritz Klein.

http://www.bisexual.org/kleingrid.html

Interactive grid here: http://www.youthnetsouthampton.org.uk/breakout/kleingrid.php

I've read modern day studies about human sexuality like the Janus report on human sexuality and even surveys done by GLB groups/organizations and they show how people who are gay/lesbian and bisexual are a small percentage of the population compared to people who are hetero/straight.

I think that if most people were somehow bisexual or had at least a sexual attraction to the same and opposite gender societies around the world would be a lot different and being a bisexual or gay man would not be seen as a taboo or something punishable by death like it is in many cultures and countries like western countries like Jamaica or even non-western ones like Iran, Saudi Arabia.


Yes it is possible to be bisexual and 50/50 or pretty equal.
Labels like Pansexual, heteroflexible/homoflexible, being "just sexual", and omnisexual are just other terms for being bisexual.

You can be bisexual but be a complete virgin to one/both sexes/genders. It's common for some bisexuals to want romance/relationships/dating with one gender/sex and just sex with the other one, while some bisexuals like myself can fall in love with both men and women not everyone can. Some bisexuals just want sex with the same or opposite gender/sex while in a 3 way or group sex. Some bisexuals just like to do a certain type of sex with a certain gender/sex (i.e.-oral sex).

 

[Jblazingphoenix100]

Could you elaborate? Most of the people I know seem to be one or the other only.

I would take this as he's saying most people have been culturally bound to think that they're just "straight", going with social norms or whatever.

I take it this way, because to a certain extent I agree with him.

So many people I talk to, or observe are ridiculously flirty with the same sex, as well as the opposite sex.

I think that most people have a preference (my preference is women, but chicks with dicks, and a number of men are pretty enticing too - pansexual works to describe me pretty well (or just SEXUAL)), and because of this preference, most people don't see any reason to go any further, either from social conditioning, or fear of the unknown.

I am, however, not saying there are some people who are not totally straight - what I am saying is that a LOT more people than you'd think have pansexual tendencies - sexuality is a totally random thing.

THis is just speculation of course, from my observations about sexuality, and the society we live in - I think most people can agree with me that society (particularly westernized society) is repressed on many levels.

 

[soahc]

We are born with the ability to gain orgasm from friction.

Where that friction comes from is flexible.

When I was a young teenager with a super sex drive, one time a dog brushed up against my crotch and I got an erection.

If people are born gay, then zoophiles are born attracted to animals, pedophiles are bron attracted to children, and deserve equal rights.

Give me a break. Sexuality is subject to social and cultural taboos. The reason heterosexuality is the dominant meme these days is because of W.A.S.P. pedigree.

Notice for instance how much more common bisexuality is among blacks, (who have higher sex drives in general).

 

[Jblazingphoenix100]

^ Who said people are born gay? Just to clarify.

 

[Monkeybizness]

If someone says There straight there straight. Whats wrong with that? no need to question them or try to prove them other wise. Same as there are some ppl who just strictly like there same sex. Its what you like!