Tryptamines L. asiatica - lilliputian hallucinations

[Opana313]

'They saw them on their dishes when eating': The mushroom making people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans

Only recently described by science, the mysterious mushrooms are found in different parts of the world, but they give people the same exact visions.

www.bbc.com

lilliputian hallucinations (learn something new every day) BUT the affects are NOT from Psilocybin!

Say what? What's going on here mycology experts - what in the hallucinogens is this and is it similar to psilocybin? Or just a bunch of elves all over?

Trip reports please

 

[Skorpio]

'They saw them on their dishes when eating': The mushroom making people hallucinate dozens of tiny humans

Only recently described by science, the mysterious mushrooms are found in different parts of the world, but they give people the same exact visions.

www.bbc.com

lilliputian hallucinations (learn something new every day) BUT the affects are NOT from Psilocybin!

Say what? What's going on here mycology experts - what in the hallucinogens is this and is it similar to psilocybin? Or just a bunch of elves all over?

Trip reports please

Fascinating!

One thing that seems a clue is the comment about hot pot places saying to let the mushrooms boil for 15 minutes to not trip. This implies a much more heat labile compound than muscimol or a simple tryptamine.

The Wikipedia article on L. asiatica [actually the article on hallucinogenic boletes] mentions that symptoms can be treated by chlorpromazine, which weakly implies a serotonergic mechanism (though chlorpromazine is pretty dirty and likely blocks a number of distinct hallucinatory states; if these states were blocked by ketanserin, I think it would be possible to conclusively say that the effects are serotonergic).

If I were studying these mushrooms, I’d fractionate them via simple chromatography and assay each fraction on mice. Once you find the active fraction, analyze it via MS to identify the compounds and do antagonist studies on the individual compounds to determine what receptor systems it works through.

 

[pupnik]

Fascinating!

One thing that seems a clue is the comment about hot pot places saying to let the mushrooms boil for 15 minutes to not trip. This implies a much more heat labile compound than muscimol or a simple tryptamine.

The Wikipedia article on L. asiatica [actually the article on hallucinogenic boletes] mentions that symptoms can be treated by chlorpromazine, which weakly implies a serotonergic mechanism (though chlorpromazine is pretty dirty and likely blocks a number of distinct hallucinatory states; if these states were blocked by ketanserin, I think it would be possible to conclusively say that the effects are serotonergic).

If I were studying these mushrooms, I’d fractionate them via simple chromatography and assay each fraction on mice. Once you find the active fraction, analyze it via MS to identify the compounds and do antagonist studies on the individual compounds to determine what receptor systems it works through.

how are you going to ask the mice if they saw little people, or tiny mice???
such a specific effect goes beyond psychedelics in so many ways, then again salvia and DMT sometimes have "elves" or "machine elves", though the little people described are like villagers.

 

[Opana313]

Very interesting indeed. And yes I was worried of other possibly toxic shit that might be adding to the hallucinations...but if not, well I'll be damned...

maybe there is something new here, I hope. I would hate for this to just be clickbait but yeah I don't really know species and strains but if this is something that won't kill you, or is safe then maybe it is just overwhelming effects to the accidental users(fair).
But the actual hallucination is quite different, makes me wonder what the rest of the whole experience feels like, especially if it is some new evolutionary step that psilocybin or tryptamines or what have you?- have made which is remarkable.

Reassures me that these tools & our world really wants us to reconnect.

 

[Skorpio]

how are you going to ask the mice if they saw little people, or tiny mice???
such a specific effect goes beyond psychedelics in so many ways, then again salvia and DMT sometimes have "elves" or "machine elves", though the little people described are like villagers.

There’s this behavior called the “head twitch response” which rodents do pretty specifically to serotonergic psychedelics. It is actually quite predictive of an active compound (as 5HT2A agonists which don’t produce the head twitch tend to be inactive).

Very interesting indeed. And yes I was worried of other possibly toxic shit that might be adding to the hallucinations...but if not, well I'll be damned...

It seems to be pretty commonly eaten in the Yunnan providence of China, so unlikely to have super obvious toxicity.

maybe there is something new here, I hope. I would hate for this to just be clickbait but yeah I don't really know species and strains but if this is something that won't kill you, or is safe then maybe it is just overwhelming effects to the accidental users(fair).
But the actual hallucination is quite different, makes me wonder what the rest of the whole experience feels like, especially if it is some new evolutionary step that psilocybin or tryptamines or what have you?- have made which is remarkable.

Reassures me that these tools & our world really wants us to reconnect.

The Wikipedia articles about L. asiatica and hallucinogenic boletes both have a good amount of references spanning quite a good amount of time, which gives credence to this being real, but seen as more of a negative effect than abused (there was one report of a lady who ate these mushrooms to communicate with her dead daughter, however).

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I wonder about the "Head twitch response" in people.

 

[Skorpio]

I wonder about the "Head twitch response" in people.

Good question, I’ve always interpreted it to be like that weird shivering sensation I would randomly get while tripping, but i don’t know if that generalizes to others.

 

[xdrc]

There’s this behavior called the “head twitch response” which rodents do pretty specifically to serotonergic psychedelics. It is actually quite predictive of an active compound (as 5HT2A agonists which don’t produce the head twitch tend to be inactive).


It seems to be pretty commonly eaten in the Yunnan providence of China, so unlikely to have super obvious toxicity.

The Wikipedia articles about L. asiatica and hallucinogenic boletes both have a good amount of references spanning quite a good amount of time, which gives credence to this being real, but seen as more of a negative effect than abused (there was one report of a lady who ate these mushrooms to communicate with her dead daughter, however).

IIRC while the HTR is quite predictive there are outliers in both directions (i.e. psychedelics causing no HTR and non-psychedelics causing HTR). Also I heard of (unpublished!) data that mice with knockout 5-HT2A*... still showed HTR, which would be quite interesting if this is indeed true! To me the effects do not seem like classical psychedelics. From what I heard it's also not everyone who gets those hallucinations. Given that people do not die from these mushrooms (as you say yourself), I don't see why it would be so terrible to column the compounds and simply taste them. This is after all how psilocybin/-cin and LSA were found. Saves a lot of time and is perhaps more moral.

I do hope this turns out true and leads to an interesting, hopefully benign class of compounds. A friend of mine conversed with a Chinese person who allegedly is familiar with the phenomen (I have no way to assess the authenticity), he did not make it sound like people all interpreted it as unwanted or unpleasant.

*EDIT: this was a claustrum-specific knockout, so not quite the same as I was implying...

 

[Opana313]

IIRC while the HTR is quite predictive there are outliers in both directions (i.e. psychedelics causing no HTR and non-psychedelics causing HTR). Also I heard of (unpublished!) data that mice with knockout 5-HT2A... still showed HTR, which would be quite interesting if this is indeed true! To me the effects do not seem like classical psychedelics. From what I heard it's also not everyone who gets those hallucinations. Given that people do not die from these mushrooms (as you say yourself), I don't see why it would be so terrible to column the compounds and simply taste them. This is after all how psilocybin/-cin and LSA were found. Saves a lot of time and is perhaps more moral.

I do hope this turns out true and leads to an interesting, hopefully benign class of compounds. A friend of mine conversed with a Chinese person who allegedly is familiar with the phenomen (I have no way to assess the authenticity), he did not make it sound like people all interpreted it as unwanted or unpleasant.

Thank you all for extra input! I am very fascinated as well and ready to get down to business..this could be something with a certain dose amount, might produce something outrageously amazing of extreme novelty and a new abstract hallucinogen that may be our next go to, shit what if it's beyond dmt in large doses? We don't know. And one ought to find out..

Especially the folks looking to study for the benefits of these hallucinogens w/o the tripping aspect, which MUST BE DONE for our medical future technologies.

Just like Tupac said - I might not change the world but my music will help spark the minds to help change the world --- this is also my view on all psychedelics, it just takes one person to have a world changing revelation type of bright idea.

 

[Allylbenzene]

From a 2025 paper:

Lanmaoa asiatica is known for its unique flavor; however, improper consumption can induce severe neuropsychiatric symptoms, including hallucinations and irritability. This study employed ultra-high performance liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (UPLC-MS/MS) to analyze the plasma metabolic profiles of patients with Lanmaoa asiatica poisoning and healthy controls.
...
Poisoned patients primarily exhibited neuropsychiatric symptoms, including hallucinations (75%) and general weakness (60%), along with gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea (60%) and vomiting (45%).
...
However, this study has certain limitations, including a relatively small sample size and potential challenges in metabolite identification inherent to untargeted metabolomics. These factors may affect the generalizability and biological interpretation of the findings.

In this study, the top 20 differential metabolites were identified through LC–MS analysis...

• 5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-HTP)
• Propionic acid, 2-amino-3-ureido- (Albizziine)
• alpha-cyano-3-hydroxycinnamic acid
• 5-Methoxytryptophol
• Rubiadin
• Protocatechuic acid
• Carnitine
• Inosine
• 4-Hydroxy-5-(3,4,5-trihydroxyphenyl)pentanoic acid
• 1-Acetylproline
• Adenosine-5-triphosphate
• Adenosine 5-Diphosphate
• Zuclopenthixol (???)
• 3-methyl-5-thio-alpha-D-ribose
• 1-phosphate
• N,N-Dimethyl-L-Valine

The metabolite 4-hydroxy-5-(3,4,5-trihydroxyphenyl)pentanoic acid is a possible candidate.

Spoiler: In hindsight - an improbable explanation

It's got an unusually long tail compared to phenylethylamine (the metabolite is based on phenylpentylamine) but there's many examples of active drugs with long tails, including phenylpropylamines and this phenylbutylamine series which interacts with serotonin & dopamine receptors including SERT, 5-HT2A, D1, D2, D3, D4. Designed to be antagonists at these receptors.

Assuming it's the final metabolite it could have originated from the aldehyde & amine. Similar to how the body metabolises phenethylamine -> phenacetylaldehyde -> phenylacetic acid. The 3 hydroxy groups on the phenyl (4-hydroxy-5-(3,4,5-trihydroxyphenyl)pentanoic acid) could be the result of demethylation similar to how the methoxy on mescaline becomes a hydroxy:

See demethylation of the 4-methoxy -> 4-hydroxy.

The hydroxy on the tail (4-hydroxy-5-(3,4,5-trihydroxyphenyl)pentanoic acid) might have originally been a keto group, similar to how the hydroxy (OH) group on cathine originates from the keto (O) group on cathinone (cathinone gets oxidised into cathine):

Assuming the original metabolite identification was accurate and assuming those demethylation/oxidation steps take place, the original molecule in fresh mushrooms might look like this:

(SMILES: COc1cc(CC(=O)CCCN)cc(OC)c1OC)

This molecule would be unstable due to the keto (O) group - similarly to how the keto group in cathinone is unstable thus degrades to cathine. This matches the practice of heating the mushrooms to make them inactive:

One thing that seems a clue is the comment about hot pot places saying to let the mushrooms boil for 15 minutes to not trip. This implies a much more heat labile compound than muscimol or a simple tryptamine.

The mushroom also contains 2 harmala alkaloids according to this paper:
Chemical constituents from the fruiting bodies of Lanmaoa asiatica and their anti-inflammatory activity
— https://doi.org/10.1016/j.fitote.2025.106531

• 1-methoxycarbonyl-ß-carboline (14)
• 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-1-oxo-ẞ-carboline (15)

On the blue colour:

Lanmaoa asiatica and L. macrocarpa are two important gourmet bolete in China, and locally named “Jian Shou Qing” meaning their fruiting bodies turn blue after bruising.
- https://doi.org/10.1002/cbdv.202301996

Variegatic acid (3,3',4,4'-tetrahydroxypulvinic acid) is an orange pigment found in some mushrooms. It is responsible for the bluing reaction seen in many bolete mushrooms when they are injured.

 

[iom]

The description sounds a bit more similar to a anticholinergic deleriant than a 5-HT2 active thing to me, but it's hard to say. Maybe it's something completely different, much as was the case with salvinorin. Hmm, maybe it's another kappa partial agonist but one that lasts many hours or days?

 

[Allylbenzene]

Multiple trip reports on the mushroom from 2008:

“These mushrooms,” I asked a man minding a small pile of red-pored boletes, “are they good to eat?”

“Yes. Good. Very good,” he replied in the local version of Mandarin. “You want to buy?”

But I was cautious. In the current Chinese climate of making money any way one can, it would not be inconceivable to be offered poisonous mushrooms —for a price.
“How do I prepare them?” I asked.

“Stir-fry for ten minutes.”

“And if I don’t stir-fry for ten minutes?”

“Ahhh,” the man said, his eyes bright and mischievous and his wide grin punctuated by a massive, gleaming metal molar. “Well, then course, ni kan xiao ren ren (“you will see the little people”).

At the mention of xiao ren ren the ever-tightening knot of onlookers broke into grins and loud guffaws and began to chatter all at once in the local dialect. My two city-bred companions complained, with more than a hint of disdain, that their pronunciation was crude and difficult to understand. One gap-toothed woman, how-ever, was able to speak volumes without saying aword. She was waving some different, slightly bigger boletes, as if to say, “Eat these without cooking them properly and you will see the little people —lots of them!”

...

Her mother had bought some blue-staining boletes from the market and stir-fried them for the family, but she was in a hurry that evening and presumably didn’t cook them for the requisite amount of time.

Miss Oh clearly remembered the hallucinations that began that evening and continued into the next day. The walls moved and shifted in geometrical patterns and strange shapes appeared. “I’m sleepy all day,” she said in English. “I see them [xiao ren ren]. And I see flies bigger than the actual one, perhaps two times big. I see little insects. Not all the time, but when the water splashed out.” She apparently became fascinated by the dripping kitchen faucet, for each drop would, upon hitting the sink, sprout wings and legs and crawl away. And she remembered, very clearly, staring intently at the bows of her shoelaces until they turned into butterflies and fluttered off. Her brother experienced similar effects, but her mother and father did not feel any —perhaps because they ate less proportional to their body weight.

...

I have since met more than a dozen people in Yunnan who have personally seen the xiao ren ren, including one woman whose visual experience, though pleasant, was accompanied by nausea and vomiting. The two first-hand accounts below were unusual in that they were related to me in English.

...

Later, I met a professor with excellent English skills who had actually seen the xiao ren ren, not xiao dong wu.
“It was in a restaurant. I asked for stir-fried mushrooms and just as I was getting ready to leave, after eating them, I noticed moving colors and shapes. I wasn’t worried. My first thought was, ‘Oh, they must not have cooked the mushrooms enough —I’ll be able to see the xiao ren ren!’

...might produce something outrageously amazing of extreme novelty and a new abstract hallucinogen that may be our next go to, shit what if it's beyond dmt in large doses? We don't know. And one ought to find out..

Based on the trip reports mentioned above this mushroom is pretty unique. There's another recent discovery that might fit the bill of what you describe, the novel DIY lysergamides mentioned in a few threads.

 

[Opana313]

@Allylbenzene @tregar yes very exciting! Groundbreaking work, congratulationsons on the release! I already plan on getting a copy!

Does sound like these may be used recreationally for sure albeit with some nausea but maybe not so much for the harder headed experienced? Possibly not so much a bad "side effect" unless IDK ate them unknowingly/first psychedelic taste?

 

[xdrc]

Assuming the original metabolite identification was accurate and assuming those demethylation/oxidation steps take place, the original molecule in fresh mushrooms might look like this:

I find triple dealkylation rather improbable, one dealkylation (like in mescaline) would be sufficient for the formation of conjugates and clearance. The instability of cathinone freebase in vitro is largely due to the formation of a favoured 6-membered ring by condensation to the ketimine, which is then irreversibly oxidised by dissolved molecular oxygen to form pyrazines. Your proposed compound would have a rather large ring size of 10 (which is unfavourable) and could not oxidise to those very stable diphenylpyrazines as seen with cathinone - instead forming dimers or oligomers reversibly. It is nice to speculate but this is a lot of conjecture and I fail to see how the resulting proposed compound would act in a manner to facilitate such hallucinations. Of course nothing can be ruled out until it is determined conclusively.

I'd agree with @iom that the effects seem like they could be anticholinergic (especially if influenced by different cultural beliefs), but it does not fit completely either. I'll be excited to see the solution of this riddle.

 

[Allylbenzene]

I find triple dealkylation rather improbable, one dealkylation (like in mescaline) would be sufficient for the formation of co

Yes I'd agree. The researchers studying this considered the metabolite in question to originate from green tea polyphenols (possibly the hydroxycinnamic acids) which is much more plausible. The original study mentions several limitations also:

However, this study has certain limitations, including a relatively small sample size and potential challenges in metabolite identification inherent to untargeted metabolomics. These factors may affect the generalizability and biological interpretation of the findings.

I fail to see how the resulting proposed compound would act in a manner to facilitate such hallucinations.

There are examples of psychoactive amines with unusually long tails, eg phenylpropyl, phenylbutyl, including some with a keto group on the tail; primary, secondary & tertiary amines.

 

[Skorpio]

The 2025 metabolomic study isn’t looking at only metabolites of the drug, it is looking at changes in metabolic flux across all pathways in the body. The drug metabolites are likely in the dataset but could be overshadowed depending on relative quantities.

Metabolomics is quite far from my wheelhouse, I do wonder if one could do a principal component analysis on the changes induced by these mushrooms and compare them to changes in metabolism due to other compounds.

I am excited for more work on this to surface.

 

[tregar]

1'-Oxoelemicin-PEA - HerbPedia

herbpedia.wikidot.com

That mushroom metabolite contains a trisubstituted structure that reminds me of mescaline. Nice! Big fan of PEA mescaline here, as I've taken pure mescaline x 30 times, zero nausea bridgesii cactus tea (I have a chapter in my book "LSI, ancient LSD" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GCH1XGVT/ref=sr_1_1?asc_source=01HDRG07ZP5FJRJVES5GYSHWKK&tag=snx1-20 on how to make the tea) at least x 120 times, I used to drink the tea made from 1.5 bridgesii (450mg mescaline equivalent to 150ug LSD) and 1 hour later walk down the street to the waterpark, as we live down the road from one of the world's largest wateparks and trip all morning and early afternoon long. I will look into this as the structure has many similarities to mescaline (one of my all time favorite psychedelics).

1'-Oxoelemicin-PEA is an adduct of phenylethylamine and 1'-oxoelemicin. Thanks for amazing thread on this PEA Opana313, keep up the good work!

 

[PsychedelicSummer]

Good question, I’ve always interpreted it to be like that weird shivering sensation I would randomly get while tripping, but i don’t know if that generalizes to others.

I can have "a desire" to wanting to move my head left-right on psychedelics, but mostly on empathogens.