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L- Amino Acids and Opiates

Thanatos

Thanatos

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
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Ex-staff Ex-crulighter
Hey guys this is a pretty simple question. Is there any chance, or preferably evidence, that l- amino acids can potentiate or synergize with opiates or specifically hydrocodone? I took 1.5 grams of L-Lysine along with my standard pre-dose potentiation regimen, and I seem to be feeling the 25mg of hydrocodone much faster and with more intensity in general.
I know that l-lysine can potentiate benzo's via serotonin antagonism, but I've never heard of it used in conjunction with opiods. Anyone wanna chime in? I hope this is a question suited basic drug discussion.
 
Interesting :). Would you like this to be moved to Other Drugs? I'm not sure if it's a very basic question.

I haven't tried it yet, but I do think L-Lysine could potentiate and/or synergize with opioids. L-Lysine has a known anxiolytic action and reduces anxiety and anxiety-induced diarrhea. L-Lysine also appears to have central nervous system depressant-like characteristics (similar to barbituates) [source]. Since opioids are CNS depressants and taking other CNS depressants with them increases the effects it would make sense that L-Lysine could potentiate opioids.

I have heard many anecdotal reports that L-Lysine is helpful for opioid withdrawal. I am going to get some! :) I don't know why I don't already have it, I guess I forgot. I'll try to report back as to whether or not it increases the effects of my methadone and/or helps with withdrawal symptoms.

I thought that the way that L-Lysine potentiated benzos was by potentiating the benzodiazepine receptors [source], not by its action as a serotonin antagonist. It could perhaps synergize with benzos in that they are both believed to decrease serotonin (or its effects), but it is unclear whether or not serotonin antagonism is actually responsible for anxiolytic effects [source and a different source with a different conclusion]. Benzos are believed to primarily work by: increasing the efficiency of GABA, to decrease the excitability of neurons, which therefore, has a calming effect; acting on the subset of GABAA receptors that also bind benzodiazepines which are referred to as benzodiazepine receptors; interacting with peripheral benzodiazepine receptors (present in tissues, cells, and the CNS); and by functioning as weak adenosine reuptake inhibitors. [source]

Strangely, L-Lysine is believed to slow down the endogenous opioid peptide transporter system (or at least one of the systems, there are more than one type) [source and source]. Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand whether or not that could affect opioid drugs in any way, or even how that alters the effects of endogenous opioid peptides in practical terms. (However, my very uneducated guess would be that if that had any effect on opioid drugs it might be to slow the onset and extend the effects?)

Opioids affect serotonin, some disinhibit it and some inhibit it [source]. So perhaps since L-lysine acts as a partial serotonin antagonist [source] there could be some sort of interaction there?

Sorry this is so long and hope it is helpful :)
 
Sorry this is so long and hope it is helpful
Click to expand...

quality over quantity though;) i think those who don't take the time to read the well thought out responses are only losing out themselves. i enjoy your long, informative posts, SD:)
 
^ will move it other to Other Drugs to see if it gets any more responses there.

BDD -> OD
 
Hopefully someone can shed some light on the subject. In my subjective experience the L-Lysine had a substantial effect on the analgesic effects and helped with rapid onset of the hydrocodone.
 
I'm pretty sure there's a thread or two on l, D, and DL-phenylalanine potentiating opiates.
I'm too lazy to look neow but I thinkkk phenylalanine leads to an increase in endorphin and/or enkephalin levels.
 
Did you not consider my post and the many links I provided a "solid answer" or "shedding any light on the subject"? I know it wasn't a definite yes or no answer, but I thought it was interesting and informative. Particularly the study that found L-lysine to be a CNS depressant, and we know that CNS depressants potentiate each other, so...
Is there anything you wanted clarification on?
 
I did consider it, and it was quite informative, thank you. Most of the links you posted were referring to L-Lysine as a barbiturate like CBS depressant. I was more interested in potentiation than synergysm. I found the one link about the endogenous opiod peptide transport system very interesting in fact. I just thought that the thread could possibly profit from further information and possible knowledge from other members of BL. Please don't think I insulted you, that's what it seems like. There is no reason to be passive aggressive, I am just curious, rightfully so. I appreciate your links and they have brought a lot to the thread, thank you.
 
Oh no problem :). Sorry if I sounded offended or anything, I didn't mean to. You just hadn't said anything about it at all so I was worried you didn't see my post/didn't read it, or didn't find it helpful in any way :) (I was mostly wondering if maybe you had missed it cuz I thought from your response it seemed like you thought no one had replied at all).

I would have moved the thread for you but I was away.

I think the problem is that the subject of L-Lysine opioid potentiation hasn't really been studied. It's not like say, an enzyme inhibitor, that is known to alter your metabolism and therefore increase your blood levels of the opioid. Maybe if there had been people taking it who were prescribed opioids and were overdosing or something then it would be studied more, like other potentiators have been.

I took some L-Lysine today and I definitely feel like it has either synergized with or potentiated my methadone in some way, so it's not just you who has this effect. I will try to do some more research if no one else knows anything about this topic, as I am interested too.

EDIT: Also, I was under the impression that CNS depressants actually did potentiate each other, not just synergized with each other - I wonder if anyone can clear that up?
 
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I'm sorry I didn't reply to your earlier post, it was a dense read and didn't know exactly how to articulate my thoughts on the links at the time. I really do appreciate it though.
So you felt the effects too? I initially took the l-lysine with my hydros as I knew for a fact that it potentiated-synergized? with GABAergic drugs, and was curious as to it's effect on opiods. I had actually never read any literature on the subject before and took the two as a wild guess. I definitely notices a marked difference though.
Maybe it's because I'm not educated enough, but I do have a slightly difficult time finding reputable sources in the subject of biochemistry- and I am not fully aware of the significance of everything stated. I am mostly self taught to this point...

Yes, I would love to have some clarity on the potentiation vs synergize issue. I'm not the best person to answer it with definite accuracy.
What was your subjective experience on the effect of l-lysine on your methadone?
 
Well it seemed to me to make it feel stronger and last longer. I am on a very small amount of methadone and normally feel nothing from it other than partial relief of my withdrawal symptoms. After taking the L-Lysine I felt calmer, happier, more energetic, less pain, and didn't really feel any withdrawal symptoms. I normally still feel withdrawal symptoms even with the methadone and they get quite bad around this time of day but today I still feel fine. I will try it again tomorrow.

I have no idea whether the L-Lysine potentiated the methadone or just relieved my withdrawal symptoms and improved my mood, pain etc on its own.
 
Out of curiosity, how much lysine did you take? I take a large amount daily for weight lifting recovery. I was aware of its potentiating effects on benzodiazapinez but I haven't ever given much thought in the potential effects it has on opiates. As of right now ill give it a try and report back. Weeks back I suffered an injury and was taking 100-200mg of ms-contin. Usually broken into powder and placed in hot water to remove the very long time release.

I'm currently drinking 3grams of L-Lysine as we speak, and will be injesting 100mg ms-contin (morphine sulfate) shortly. Same way as ive taken it in the past. Crushed, hot watter, melt wax, drink.

Typical results from this is as follows.
Slow onset 1-1 1/2 hours. First thing noticed is itching, followed by warmth and relaxation. Very mild euphoria. These effects typically last nearly 5 hours after onset. Rapidly declining after the 5 hour mark. The next day I always feel good, only effects the are after are tiny pupils and slight itchies hahaha.

Ill report back with time of onset, strength of the effects, duration, and day after effects. I will also take another 100mg on Friday so I can compare results.
 
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I believe I took 1.5-2 grams the other night but I can't say for sure. I've always kept high bcaa level because of weight lifting as well. I noticed a quicker onset of action as well as potentiation of effects. I don't have much experience with morphine at those doses but it helped me feel a very modest dose of hydrocodone, that normally wouldn't even touch my pain, let alone add any euphoria.
 
I took 1 gram of l-lysine but I took it a while after my methadone. I will take some at the same as my methadone and see if that makes a difference. I'm looking for some more info on the interaction and will post it here if I find anything.
 
From my experience, i didnt notice much of a difference. I will try this again using a different opiate. Morphine sulfate is quite weak when it comes to recreational value, making it tough to judge how much of an effect L-Lysine is having on it.

Ill give it a try with oxycodone, or methadone.
 
Today and yesterday I took the l-lysine at the same time as the methadone and noticed a strengthening of effects or a synergy with the effects of the lysine (it's difficult to tell which one it is, it does feel different than if I just took a larger dose of methadone), but I didn't notice the methadone lasting longer or withdrawal symptoms kicking in later like I did the first day when I took the lysine several hours after the methadone. How much l-lysine did you take Cloroxtastebad?
 
i personally think the whole potentiator thing is bullshit. If theres any benefit its purely placebo. But thats just my opinion.
 
We aren't talking about opinions. If you look at swimmingdancers post up near the top, there are multiple sources that show it is obviously not placebo. Care to add anything else as enlightening as your first post?
 
So I made a thread asking about whether CNS depressants potentiated or synergized with each other here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...rgize-with-each-other?p=10813551#post10813551

It seems that synergism is actually more than an additive or cumulative effect. Synergism is when both drugs are made stronger, whereas potentiation is when one of the drugs is made stronger. So CNS depressants would synergize with each other. So according to one of the studies above, lysine is a CNS depressant, so it would make sense that at the very least it synergizes with opioids. Whether or not this is strong enough to be very noticeable probably varies greatly depending on the person, the dose, perhaps the type and quality of the lysine etc.

With benzos I think that lysine both synergizes with benzos AND potentiates them, since they are both CNS depressants but lysine additionally modulates the benzo receptors. I had a friend try lysine with his benzos and he said it made the benzo feel 4 times as strong (he was so messed up he doesn't even remember the conversation, when normally that dose would only be enough to alleviate his withdrawals).
 
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