Bupe Kratom works on subs ?

[Pill Clinton]

Worked for me.

 

[thebigd^]

It is likely that the non-opioid portion of the kratom effects would still be felt, though it is subtle at best, when on bupe. It will not cause PWD though, bupe causes PWD when you're addicted to something else and take it. If you take something on top of bupe, it can't cause PWD, it will just not work at all, or only work a tiny bit.

And actually, if you're addicted to kratom and take bupe, it also won't cause PWD like it does with other opioids. This is, I believe, because kratom and bupe are both partial agonists. So the bupe indeed kicks the kratom alkaloids out of the receptors, but since bupe and kratom are both partial agonists, it will fully substitute for the kratom and you won't get sick (in fact I prefer bupe's high to kratom's)

Old thread but ty. tl;dr Was hit by a car at 28, 34 now with a TBI, one eye, metal everywhere. Was taking kratom for years, doc got me on once daily 16mg subs in the morning, wanted to add in some energy with some kanna so this answer allowed me to dose a small amount of gmd - ty.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thus may have already been covered, so forgive me.

Kratom's constituent/pharmacological active chemicals are known as Mitragynine(s). Most evidence points squarely at Opioid agonist properties.

There could be some lesser-know qualities as Kratom is not as well-understpod as say, Opium. However, it seems like a safe disposition to treat Kratom as a member of the mild Opioids like Codeine or perhaps Tramadol. The potency varies, though thus is a good place to start.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thus may have already been covered, so forgive me.

Kratom's constituent/pharmacological active chemicals are known as Mitragynine(s). Most evidence points squarely at Opioid agonist properties.

There could be some lesser-know qualities as Kratom is not as well-understpod as say, Opium. However, it seems like a safe disposition to treat Kratom as a member of the mild Opioids like Codeine or perhaps Tramadol. The potency varies, though thus is a good place to stary

 

[PharmaTrain]

The most common active alkaloid in kratom is Mitragynine, it's a partial agonist of the μ-opioid receptors and a competitive antagonist of the δ-opioid receptors and also have some affinity as an antagonist for the k-opioid receptors.
Buprenorphine is a partial Agonist with very high affinity for the μ-opioid receptors and a high affinity antagonist for the δ-opioid receptors and k-opioid receptors.
That being said, in my younger days I would sometimes ignore my better instincts and mix and match substances without much care. With this particular combination, for me personally, I always felt like the Kratom doses noticeably potentiated my buprenorphine. (By the way I would usually take 8 mg of Buprenorphine with 10-20 10x Kratom capsules) This is a pretty steep dose of either chemical for most people and I in no way condone or advise my youthful indiscretions. And to answer the end of the original poster's question, No, in my experience, mitragyna speciosa never sent me into any sort of precipitated withdrawal if I took it before my suboxone. Kratom and Buprenorphine always seemed to compliment one another as opposed to a traditional opiate mixed Buprenorphine.
-Note: These are all my personal recollections and I don't ever advise anyone to abuse drugs or to use drugs unless absolutely necessary. Some of us need drugs to get by and if anybody can avoid becoming like me, then I certainly advise that they do so because this is a rough life.

Can you use Kratom to come off bupe?

 

[Juicewrldfan]

Ime somewhat but I also barely feel kratom normally so take that for what it’s worth.

I have not had the same experience with methadone even at 25ml I’m at now cuz I’m tapering off

 

[PharmaTrain]

Ime somewhat but I also barely feel kratom normally so take that for what it’s worth.

I have not had the same experience with methadone even at 25ml I’m at now cuz I’m tapering off

Thanks for the feedback. I honestly think it's easier to come of methadone than bupe.

 

[TombstonePepe]

I’ve tried Kratom coming off methadone, 1-2 weeks after quitting a dope habit, and on subs, and all I ever felt was jittery and sweaty.


I have tried all sorts of different strains from several vendors to avail. Tried low to moderately high doses. I really don’t know how everyone seems to get some positive effects out of iy, yet I just feel shitty when I’ve taken it. If anything, it made the times I was in withdrawal worse.

 

[Twisted_Chemist]

No, the most active alkaloids are 7hydroxy-mitragynine and mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. Plain mitragynine doesn’t add much to Kratoms action.

Let's get some clarity on this both as a response to OP and the quoted blue lighter.


Here are the affinities for different alkaloids. The lower the better. Measured in Ki nm.

----------------------
7-Hydroxymitragynine - is a partial agonist at MOR-1 and is more potent than Mitragynine and is a weak KOR-1 and DOR-1 antagonist. It is 5-fold more potent than morphine.

MOR 13.5 (partial agonist)
DOR 155 (competitive antagonist)
KOR 123 (competitive antagonist)

Mitragynine is converted to 7-Hydroxymitragynine by oxidation 7HO can metabolize to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl in the blood, not in the liver.
Is also the base of the new novel drug series labeled as MGM-1(-17). They were created and patented by Matsumoto

-----------------------

Mitragynine -- is a partial agonist with moderate potency at MOR-1 and a weak antagonist at both DOR-1 and KOR-1. It is the most abundant alkaloid making up 12% in Malaysian M. speciosa and 66% in Thai M. speciosa alkaloids. (Total alkaloids)
MOR 7.24 (partial agonist)
DOR 60.3. (competitive antagonist¹)
KOR 1,100. (competitive antagonist¹)


¹ there are conflicting studies, some say it's a competitive antagonist (2019) and others say it's a full agonist (2016) and another says it's a partial agonist (2016)

---------------------------

Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl

First discovered in 1978 as a microbial metabolite of Mitragynine in the fungus Helminthosporum. It is a a rearrangement product of 7-HO with a spiro-pseudoindoxyl core. It is a a potent full agonist at MOR-1 and an antagonist at both DOR-1 and KOR-1.

MOR 0.087 (agonist, G protein biased)
DOR 3.02 (antagonist)
KOR 79.4. (antagonist)


7HO converts to MP in the blood (no not the liver) in such little amount it is considered NCS (not clinically significant). Test subjects (mice) also developed analgesic tolerance more slowly than with morphine.
It is 3 fold more potent the morphine.
While it has higher binding affinity than 7-Hydroxymitragynine, it's analgesic effects are less than 7-Hydroxymitragynine
------------------- comparative chemicals----------
Buprenorphine (for comparison and for topic)
MOR 0.7 (partial antagonist)
DOR 2.9 (antagonist)
KOR 2.0 (antagonist)


--------------------
(Levo-) Morphine - A naturally occuring opiate found in the milk of poppies

Mor 1.8 (1.24)
DOR 90 (145)
KOR 317 (234)


----------------------
Fentanyl -- As a μ-receptor agonist, fentanyl binds 50 to 100 times more potently than morphine.

MOR 0.39
DOR >1,000
KOR 255

----------------------

Oxycodone // (Oxymorphone) - Oxycodone is a synthetic opioid painkillers and the main ingredient in OxyCotin. Oxymorphone aka Dilaudid is a very powerful painkiller with great euphoria.

MOR 18 (.78)
DOR 958 (50)
KOR 677 (137)

-------------------------------

1) All three play a very important part in how the drug affects you. Saying that Mitragynine "doesn't add much" is completely misleading and wrong. Without it, you would not have Kratom at all. It's like saying "I smoking sodium bicarb, not crack"

2) Kratom affects more than just the opioid receptors as well (however these effects are not well studied or understood).

So in short;
Taking bupe and Kratom can be fun, know your limit start small and work your way up.


Standard boilerplate:
I am not a doctor or member of the medical community. Nothing I say is advice, medical or otherwise. I am a research fellow and chemist.

If you under dose, you can redose. If you overdose you cannot undose