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(Kratom ; Rhodiola ; Kanna) - Experienced - Ethnobotanicals Summary

aguythatlikessmoke

Bluelighter
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
667
Location
Central Eastern Europe
Lately I have been using ethnobotanicals a lot, not a single week goes by that I do not take Kratom ,Kanna or Rhodiola. I tend to cycle them using the herbs on specific days, the days I require their effects. For example on a day where I am very active, I workout , I study or I work I tend to use Rhodiola Rosea to keep me energized and sharp I also use Kratom to help me with work . On days that I relax and I unwind , I tend to use favorite herb Sceletium Tortuosum= Kanna and as of recently I acquired a 20 times powderized Sceletium extract that I use. I never mix all of the herbs on the same day, but I have been known to use kratom and Kanna on the same day without ill effects.
Dang this is hard to start out with so I will begin with Kratom, on my usage of Kratom- I most recently started to use Mitragynia speciosa ( kratom).
My favorite brand of Kratom is Maeng Da Kratom, followed by a white strain of Indo Kratom.

I use Maeng Da Kratom before work in the work in the morning, I take 3 grams of Maeng Da Kratom capsules orally on an empty stomach and the effects come on around 30 minutes to 1 hour later. The reason I like Maeng Da Kratom is that it is very stimulating and activating, it stimulates me strongly both physically and mentally and it is great to use for work especially very monotonous and boring work, it essentially becomes more interesting and a lot easier. Maeng Da kratom is a good analgesic and for me it gets rid of certain pain that I get when I work a lot, like my ankles and it helps with back pain too. Maeng Da Kratom is euphoric and energizing initially and my head is clearer when I take it, work becomes easier, Music sounds a lot better, I feel energetic both physically and mentally, and this effects come up in 30 minutes to 1 hour and the energizing effects last for about 2 hours the and after this a slight sedative effects occurs.During the Kratom high I have been known to feel nauseaous and dizzy, this is a downside of the kratom high, For me I always now take my kratom with Ginger Ale, as Ginger decreases nausea and dizzy. Lights seem brighter after taking Kratom for me and music sounds better for me after Kratom, I never take real high dosages of Kratom usually around 2 to 3 grams of Maeng Da. Maeng Da Kratom provides stimulation and also feelings of sedation after the feelings of stimulation. I like low dosages of Kratom as the stimulation is the usual effect that predominates at this dosage and there is less nausea and dizziness at this dosage, plus I dont feel drugged up or intoxicated, I keep a clear head and essentially I feel better, there is no comedown with this dosages, though there does seem to be a slight desire to repeat the experience and at a lower dosage the sedative effects do not predominate. I had a bad experience with Maeng Da Kratom where once I took up to a dosage of 10 grams of Maeng Da , I felt very Euphoric initially but later on I felt groggy, sedated, Dizzy and very very nauseas and since then I only use low dosages of Maeng Da, usually around 2 to 3 grams. I try to leave a few days between kratom uses, I do not take Kratom every day.

The next Ethnobotanical that I really like as well is known as Rhodiola Rosea, I just started up with this one recently just as of the last year. Rhodiola Rosea is an adaptogen and it seems to reduce stress levels, and increase energy levels, concentration and focus. I take Rhodiola that is standardized to 3 percent rosavin and 1 percent salidroside. This is very important in Rhodiola because at this standardized level it is most effective. I take Rhodiola in the morning 250 mg before breakfast and another dosage around noon of again 250 mg.
The effects of Rhodiola Rosea become apparent for me after about 30 minutes after intake, I notice that my mind feels a lot clearer and I notice that my level of mental tension and anxiety significantly drops. Rhodiola Rosea doesn't provide a high or buzz for me as with Kratom or Kanna but Rhodiola seems to keep me feeling mentally clearer and less stressed and it keeps my energy levels higher. Rhodiola Rosea helps my memory out as well and it helps out with my ability to concentrate and focus. Rhodiola also seems to significantly help me with Fatigue both mental and Physical literally Rhodiola Rosea can remove feelings of fatigue very efficiently and this effects becomes seen immediately the same day you use it. I take Rhodiola Rosea to help me workout, to help me study, to help me work, with a lot of stuff. For example when I use Rhodiola Rosea for working out, I always use it with a caffeine source such as a Herbal Yerba mate or a drink of coffee and the energy I get is unbelievable and my endurance doubles. I lift weights and Rhodiola Rosea has a very noticeable ergogenic effect, I am able to workout a lot longer, push myself a lot harder and my muscles are able to take more damage. I was able to go through a very intense workout a lot harder than usual thanks to the usage of Rhodiola. For me Rhodiola Rosea helps me out with sports, weight training, running because it helps my breathing like it seems I use my oxygen more efficiently. Anyways To get to the main point Rhodiola Rosea is great for sports as it increases energy and reduces fatigue pharmacologically - Rhodiola reduces cortisol levels in the body, it increases oxygen and ATP usage by muscles and it increases Dopamine and Serotonin in the brain so its a very effective Antidepressant as well.
I like to combine Rhodiola with Yerba mate as this increases energy and endurance by double , amazing preworkout. I love to use that combination as a preworkout. Infact I just ordered Rhodiola root tea, cause I want to see how it compares to to the standardized capsules I use and one more note Rhodiola Rosea I use it for studying as well it helps my memory, concentration and focus. The side effects of Rhodiola are worse if you take a lot of it in one day, I keep my dosages between 250 to 500 mg. Also I took a high dosage of rhodiola with an energy drink and I felt chest pains and anxiety. I had no problem combining Rhodiola Rosea with Coffee or Herbal yerba mate tea and Coffee increases the effects of Rhodiola as does yerba mate but with energy drinks you get side effects such as overstimulation and chest pains. I cycle usage and I usually only take Rhodiola 3-4 times a week on the days that I workout and that I study a lot. This prevents tolerance from building and keeps it working effectively. Rhodiola is effective for increasing Energy levels, as a preworkout, as a study aid, to increase memory, to reduce fatigue, to increase Physical endurance and slightly effective as a antidepressant.

The next herbal ethnobotanical is Kanna, Sceletium Tortuosum a succulent herb from South Africa. The days I dont take Rhodiola I use kanna, It isnt good to mix Rhodiola with Kanna as it can feel quite overstimulating.
Currently I am using Powderized Kanna. I have used a rough cut or smokers cut that isnt powderized but stems and twigs, the rough cut is good for smoking and chewing in your mouth. Powderized Kanna you can snort, swallow and chew with gum.
I am very proficient at using Kanna, I have used it for a few years. I can actually taste a batch of Kanna and I can tell if it is legitimate and good or if its a rip off. A lot of stuff sold as Kanna isnt Kanna. Kanna has to have a slight bitter taste, the colour should be light yellow to brown. The active alkaloids are mesembrine, tortuosamine, mesembrenol.

Kanna has stimulating properties it is reminiscent of MDMA but a lot milder significantly milder. After I take it orally effects come up in 15 minutes, I feel stimulation and I can feel talkative as well, at times I feel a very strong mood lift and Euphoria of mild to moderate intensity. The mood lift is always there. A rushing sensation is also felt after taking it. Appetite seems to be reduced and Anxiety and Tension are significantly reduced as well. The duration and intensity of these effects depends on the dosage taken,it can also depend on how long you have been taking Kanna or at how many times you took it in a single day. Kanna has reverse tolerance and if you take Kanna a few days in a row or more frequently in a single day the effects come on stronger each time. Like today I took Kanna in the morning and just now and the effects feel a lot stronger the second time I took it.
Social anxiety lessens, you feel more talkative, I smile a lot when I take Kanna and I feel stimulated. It is a very nice feeling for me and a reason I enjoy using it. The effects of the buzz last for 1 to 3 hours for me. Kanna also produces a body buzz( my muscles relax) , and my appetite is lowered. Tactile sensation can increase too and Music can sound better as well when you take Kanna. The buzz is enjoyable. It is pretty much a herbal MDMA but just a lot Milder. I am taking an powderized extract and dosages of 300 mg to 1 gram per day when I use it.

Anyways if anybody has questions then write them on here ill answer sometime , I know a lot about Kanna, Kratom and rhodiola and I have used and researched them thoroughly.
 
I would like to compare the effects of Kanna to another well known herb Kava Kava. The anxiolytic effects are slightly stronger with Kava but the Antidepressant effects seem better with Kanna . As compared to Kava, Kanna seems to have more of stimulated feeling and it produces greater feelings of happiness and a more pronounced euphoria there is a lot less sedation with Kanna as compared to Kava Kava , and if many of you took shrooms or MDMA, you know that serotonergic feeling when you are coming up on shrooms or MDMA, Kanna produces that rushy serotonergic type of feeling as well except at a lower intensity , Kanna is kind of similiar to coming up on a shroom trip except that you never trip but you have some of those effects such as brighter lights, Nature appears slightly more beautiful on Kanna as well and sometimes you feel a sort of meditative calm on Kanna and an introspective state, I have achieved those on very high dosages of Kanna.

Kanna also has a difference as compared to kava and kratom because it produces varying results in people who take it. I personally think Kanna works very good for me and a lot of other people say the same thing. But there are people who say that Kanna doesn't have an effect on them or produces only mild effects on them. The reason for this is that everybodies individual biochemistry is different and some people have a stronger reaction to Kanna such as myself, it also a reason why some people love smoking weed but others get paranoid when they smoke weed, or why antidepressants work for some people and do not work for others.
Also the batch of Kanna and the quality of your product with Kanna plays an important role in how you feel the effects. I went through a lot of Kanna the past few years and the effects where inconstant, some batches where very good other times I didn't feel anything . But again some people may have a good batch of Kanna and take it and feel no effects, then they should not give up on the herb but rather use it for a few days because Kanna works well when you use it constantly as it responds to priming and it has a reverse tolerance, other times some people may not feel anything even if they have a good batch and they prime by using consistantly, the reason why is as I stated earlier varying biochemistries of individuals what works for one doesnt work for another.

I could summarize the Kanna buzz as being a Pleasurable and unique experience and remarkable that a plant can produce such a pleasant sensation. I wouldn't call it a high on Kanna but rather a buzz, because your state of consciousness doesnt change significantly rather you experience a pleasurable and unique mood boosting buzz.

An Individual asked me earlier what type of effects or positive/negatives I have felt after using Kanna for a longer period of time, he asked me this because I have been using Kanna( Sceletium) on and off for approximately 3 years now. The positive effect of using Kanna for a longer period of time seems to be continuously reduced anxiety and stress levels and I seem to take things lighter and easier. I also have felt as if my baseline happiness level is higher now than several years earlier before I was introduced to Kanna. I am also more aware of my emotions and better able to control them, I take things easier and I feel happier and my mood is more stable, I look at the brighter side of things and I am more resilient to depression. Some of these mental changes seem to stay with me even when I do not use Kanna for a couple of months, so it seems to produce positive changes for the long term in your mental health. Kanna also seems to reduce cravings to alcohol and harder drugs for me.
The sensation or the buzz that Kanna provides seems mildly addictive to me and I have come of Kanna and never felt uncontrollable cravings and there are no hallucinogenic side effects and no withdrawal effects.
Negative side effect-
Higher dosages do not necessarily produce a better high, there is a plateau effect to the high and increasing the dosage causes side effects such as anxiety to occur
A good oral dosage for regular Kanna powder is around 100 mg to upwards of 2 grams depending on the individual
A good oral dosage for Kanna extracts powders is between 50 mg to upwards of maximum 700 mg. The extracts can vary in intensity 5 times 10 times 15 times and 20 times extract , I took all of them and the most amount of oral dosage of extract I could take in a day was up to 700 mg before ill side effects.
Initially Kanna responds to priming and taking it everyday but later on a tolerance builds up( to the antidepressant effects and to the buzz) after a few weeks of daily usage and then its good to take a month break or you can use Kanna the way I do only on certain days of the week, the positive aspect is if you use Kanna everyday and you get tolerance and if you quit usage the tolerance drops after about 2 to 3 weeks and Kanna becomes very effective when you use it again, also for a lot of people who use it for depression even when a tolerance develops their depression could already be lessened significantly or dissipated by that point.
High dosages of Kanna can produce a mild discomfort , kind of like a mild serotonin syndrome, the side effects of this include higher heart rate, sweating, increased pupil size, diarrhea, nausea and vomiting and anxiety.
Duration of effects-
Orally- the buzz lasts from 1 to 3 hours, the antidepressant and anxiolytic effects persist most of the day, there is less inebriation and less Euphoria though you could feel more talkative when it is taken orally and sometimes none when taken by the oral route, analgesic effects are apparent. The anxiolytic effects are strongest when taken orally.
Snorted- the buzz lasts 15-30 minutes but it is Euphoric and intense this way and very low dosages are active you feel decent inebriation , the antidepressant and anxiolytic effects persist for the rest of the day though as well
chewing- the buzz lasts 30 minutes to 2 hours and this route actually was the most euphoric for me, I put kanna powder on a piece of gum and chewed it and the effect was high euphoria for me, and analgesia and relaxation with simultaneous stimulation and as long as I was chewing the piece of gum i was feeling the buzz and stronger, so chewing Kanna continuously could possibly make the buzz last very long.
Kanna suppresses appetite for an hour or two after taking it.
 
You should try Mulungu.It produces a mild benzo like effect and goes very well with kratom in my opinion
 
You should try Mulungu.It produces a mild benzo like effect and goes very well with kratom in my opinion

ahahahah you know what is funny? I already tried Erythrina Mulungu,it is a bark of a south american tree and yea I used it for Insomnia. I used it to help me with sleep, and yea I remember it produces Benzo like effects a bit different than Kava but kinda of similiar. Mulungu seemed deff stronger than valerian for me though. I should try it with Kratom the next time I have it.
How does it feel like when combined with Kratom?

One more thing I wanted to mention is that Rhodiola Rosea is more stimulating in lower dosages that is between 50 mg to 500 mg but it seems that higher dosages of Rhodiola have more sedating and calming properties, cause I took a higher dosage today and it seems to make me more calmed down, but slightly sleepy too, Rhodiola really helps with clarity of mind though.
 
Yet another thread singing the praises of kanna and kratom. Reads more like a marketing spiel than a Trip Report, but informative nonetheless.

My initial experiences with kratom and kanna has left me feeling underwhelmed. I started below 1 gram and slowly increased over several weeks to 4.3g. White indo mostly, and also smaller amounts of red borneo, green Malay, and Maeng Da. It is an acquired taste that requires time to appreciate, perhaps.

That goes double for kanna. Just not a lot happening yet. My highest dose 990mg.

Any suggestions or advice to get more out of these substances? I'm trying 4.3g kratom on the tail end of 90mg 4-FA dose just to see what happens. (Not too shabby so
far.)
 
Kratom is a full-on drug, it hits the delta and mu opiate receptors. 4.3 grams is a pretty low dose for some people. Try 6 or 8.

I've never gotten anything positive from kanna. It makes me feel a bit weird.
 
Yeah, I don't get much from kanna,even with exrtracts. Mixed with kratom though, it made for a speedier high than kratom alone. Yeah, 4.3 grams of kratom is kinda low, but if it's quality it should definitely get you high with a low tolerance.
 
ahahahah you know what is funny? I already tried Erythrina Mulungu,it is a bark of a south american tree and yea I used it for Insomnia. I used it to help me with sleep, and yea I remember it produces Benzo like effects a bit different than Kava but kinda of similiar. Mulungu seemed deff stronger than valerian for me though. I should try it with Kratom the next time I have it.
How does it feel like when combined with Kratom?

One more thing I wanted to mention is that Rhodiola Rosea is more stimulating in lower dosages that is between 50 mg to 500 mg but it seems that higher dosages of Rhodiola have more sedating and calming properties, cause I took a higher dosage today and it seems to make me more calmed down, but slightly sleepy too, Rhodiola really helps with clarity of mind though.
stronger sedation,more calming and more relaxing you get more of them "legs" but i recommend something like coffee or even better guarana because otherwise you will most likely fall asleep but the combo is really nice
 
stronger sedation,more calming and more relaxing you get more of them "legs" but i recommend something like coffee or even better guarana because otherwise you will most likely fall asleep but the combo is really nice

yea Guarana is good too and long lasting. I mean Rhodiola is a nice herb for energy , but sometimes its sedating at higher dosages as I stated thats why I like to take low doses of Rhodiola with a caffeine source.
To the other people about Kanna, yea it seems Sceletium works for some people and doesnt work for others , it might have to do with the batch of sceletium you have , or it might have to do with the route of adminstration if orally kanna doesnt do much for you try using it as a snuff(snorting it ), and try to chew it with a piece of gum or use the smokers cut and chew or smoke that. I find if I chew Kanna or snort it I get a rapid acting buzz that is rushy and serotonergic, mood boosting and mildly euphoric as well as stimulating.
 
The suggestions are appreciated. It seemed like 4.3g kratom was a safe threshold dose. Bumping up another gram or 2 next try.

I've got kanna powder and so I will try an alternate ROA as recommended. Also daily dosing may improve the effects.
 
I thought I would update this trip report. I love Ethnobotanicals and in general herbal medicine and there is a lot of good herbs out there but continuous research is needed which a person must do on their own. Anyways another Herbal I had positive effects with is Ashwagandha. It is kind of like Rhodiola but I find that its Anxiolytic effects are far more superb , Its an adaptogen as well and today is my second day taking it and I already feel differences such as an increase in Lipido with Ashwagandha and higher physical and mental energy levels and a calming effect a bit more superb as compared to Rhodiola. Yea and Ashwagandha doesn't increase any of the monoamine levels drastically so I can mix it with Kanna which I did today and this mixture was superb, a lot of energy, strong anxiolytic effects, it seems the effects of Kanna where slightly increased there is no negative cross reactivity between them.
 
Just finishing up stock of Rhodiola and already have Ashwagandha ready to go.

Should they (Ashwagandha and kanna) be taken at same time? What time of day is best? What proportions of each? Would Bioperine or cayenne improve bioavailability? Thanks...
 
Just finishing up stock of Rhodiola and already have Ashwagandha ready to go.

Should they (Ashwagandha and kanna) be taken at same time? What time of day is best? What proportions of each? Would Bioperine or cayenne improve bioavailability? Thanks...

You can combine Ashwagandha with Kanna no problem it doesn't matter you can take them at the same time of the day or at the different times of the day. I take ashwagandha that contains 680 mg of powdered Ashwagandha combined and it contains 3 mg of the active withanolides combined.
organic ashwagandha root (Withania somnifera Dunal)
standardized supercritical CO2 extract (8% Withanolides - 0.8 mg*)
10 mg *
organic ashwagandha root standardized extract
(0.5% Withanolides - 1.4 mg*)
280 mg *
organic ashwagandha root powder
(0.2% Withanolides - 0.76 mg*)
380 mg
This is the dosage in my combined Ashwagandha product( I take 1 capsule a day) and i Combined it with 100 mg of Sceletium Tortuosum( Kanna) extract.
The effects of the Kanna+Ashwagandha are a pronounced feeling of well being and mild to moderate euphoria, increased physical endurance, increased energy and very good anxiolytic effects,& increased talkativity. No interaction negative interaction between Ashwagandha and Kanna at all.

I would not recommend mixing Kanna with Rhodiola Rosea though because it could possibly risk Serotonin Syndrome and it could increase the monoamine levels excessively and lead to at least anxiety as a side effects it isn't pleasant, I tried it at low dosages and felt anxiety .

However I did mix the above mentioned Ashwagandha 1 capsule with 1000 mg of Rhodiola Rosea extract, today , because I heard mixing Rhodiola with Ashwagandha is good. The Rhodiola Rosea Extract I used was Siberian Rhodiola, the most potent and I took 1 500 mg Rhodiola capsule with the ashwagandha in the morning and then in the afternoon I redosed with another 500 mg Rhodiola Rosea. The effects are a pronounced clarity of mind, all of the tensions lift and I am able to think very clearly and focus and concentrate a lot better , Fatigue is dramatically reduced, muscle pains and soreness dissapears im not even kidding this combination reduces cortisol levels in your body so much, Cortisol is responsible for pain, soreness and inflammation. Lipido increases, my erections are better. My physical strength increases, I can push my self a lot harder in the gym, I can sprint and run farther&faster , I tire way less. My appetite is decreased, I can control my eating habits better, I like this effect of Rhodiola. I dont have a euphoria such as with Kanna+ Ashwagandha combination however this combination does give me a nice feeling of well being, the only down side is that my heart races a little the Rhodiola I take is strong.But I love the Physical and Mental energy it is invincibility. I am ready for my evening run.
 
I wanted to mention Also another product I tried this week, Its a combination product Rhodiola extract, with choline, Ginkgo, Ginseng and with Zembrin. Zembrin is a standardized extract of Kanna sceletium Tortuosum . The effects of the combination where mostly for cognitive benefits however the zembrin did have a nice calming effect and a mood boost though not as pronounced as real Kanna. The effects of the combination where mostly reduction of mental fatigue and stress along with boosted cognitive functions not so much of a physical effect.

Also I wanted to mention another Kanna product out on the market which I want to try but its expensive, quite expensive and you must order it from South Africa as its only available there. Its called Tristill and its a standardized Kanna extract they use it for ADHD and ADD in kids and for depression, anxiety and PTSD in adults. Its very interesting its standardized to all the active alkaloidal compounds in the Kanna plant including mesembrine, mesembrenone, Tortuosamine and on the website it said that you could overdose on it if excess dosages where taken and it could result in extreme euphoria , read about it.
Zembrin is a standardized extract of Kanna as well but its only standardized to mesembrenone so you would mostly see, anxiolytic and mood boosting as well as calming effects with it, but nothing overly potent as the stimulative and euphoric effects arent as pronounced as real kanna with zembrin.
 
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