Kratom/methocarbamol - Moderate - Complications/health problems.

[jeffsleep]

So, before i start, i'de like to say this is totally anecdotal. I am in no way presenting my experience as evidence toward the possibility of seizure-causing side effects in the area of mitragynine(7-HOM). Take from it whatyou will.It should be mentioned that I have in no traditional sense been taking care of myself physically as of lately.This doesn't exclude not eating, sleeping badly, very little to no nutrition to be quite honest. An intelligent decision it is not, i realize this, but should be mentioned before i get into the "incident" as it quite likely had a lot to do with it.Since I forgot to mention in the title, I'm what most would consider "experienced" in the area of kratom.


Two days ago I, as i generally do, sat down to take my regular(daily lately) dose of kratom. I perhaps wasn't leery enough of the dose, and while it isn't unusual, i took what i'de assume amounted to about 35-40 grams ground thai(slightly more perhaps, hard to tell)over the course of a few hours . The kratom was bought at the same vendor that i've been using, quite happily, and with no ill effects for the past year. It's probably worth mentioning that i had taken it in similar doses through-out the week and experienced more nausea than usual followed by some vomiting, which i realize happens on occasion with kratom eating, especially in doses exceeding 10 grams, however in my case a dose like this is nothing over powering, and quite generally where i end off at the end of the night after a few hours of periodical dosing. Anyway I followed this up with 100mg of diphenhydramine, which is again a very typical, moderate dose for me as i have been using benadryl as a sleep aid for quite some time. This was followed with 1500mg robaxin. After an hour, and a few bowls i was feeling quite nice, listening to tacky southern hiphop, and enjoying the opiate-reminisent feeling, when i noticed i was feeling a tad uneasy. hard to put my finger on the exact sensation, sort of like the day before you get sick.. sort of jittery, nervous feeling, just generally uncomfortable. I wondered what the cause for the uneasiness was and realized i had very possibly taken 50mg of diphenhydramine more than intended,leaving me at 150mg, a dose that i to my recollection, had never even considered dabbling in..for obvious reasons.. perhaps fridays shitty experience being one of them. i got a little panicy and gave my brother a call. he assured me that my anxiety toward the misdose was probably just my ocd and that i had probably just knocked the missing pill on the floor, though if i had to be gun to my head honest, im pretty sure i knew i fucked up..


I eventually calmed down and tried to find the comfort that i was experiencing prior to my very miniature panic. I must have been sitting around for a little while (not sure if i nodded off or what, but all things considered i suppose it's a possibility). when i "came to" i was on the floor, my mother was crouched over me in tears when i opened my eyes. she informed me that i had what could only be described as a seizure. half out of it, confused and now almost instantly thrown into a full blown panic attack i tried to stand up, only before quickly realizing that moving my head forward made me feel a bizarre kind of sick. Fire department arrived quickly and hooked me up to an oxygen mask. the paramedics were there within 10-20 minutes where i was then carted off to the hospital, inadvertently scaring the shit out of my neighbours, as i later found out. when i got there they took blood, urine,did an ECG and a CT scan. The blood work showed deficient calcium, and potassium along with a list of others which aren't quite as easy to remember. the CT scan was absolutely fine which is comforting.The ECG was basically normal, and the doctor treating me had no issue releasing me, after a potassium IV, and a couple powerful vitamins which they administered orally.

I am yet to find an answer to what may have specifically caused the event,however diphenhydramine is known to have a somewhat profound effect on seizure, especially as dosage is increased. I have also found medical records of a 65 year old man who was stable on kratom for much longer than me who experienced a grand mal seizure under the influence of said entheogen, however was under status epilepticus and it's subsequently hard to determine how much of the seizure was cause by mitragynine..Since the man was epileptic logic would generally dictate that kratom was not the only factor. In addition to this I have also found a medical study depicting methocarbamol(robaxin) and diphenhydramine as having possible seizure-enducing properties when used in combination.


While it seems my searching for answers has just started i thought i'de leave this here in the hopes that it can shine some insight on my and perhaps someone else's "issue"..


cheers all..



PS. i should note that since i have returned from hospital the entire experience has left me shaken and un able to sleep. in a frustrated response to this i took a very weak dose of 5 grams of the exact same kratom i had used the day of thse seizure. i experienced no side effects.I also forgot to mention amphetamine and benzodiazepine was found in my system despite not having ingested anything of the sort. not sure if it was a false positive type deal or what but it's probably worth mentioning. hard to imagine people "lacing" kratom with speed and benzos...incredibly cost inefficient and would only draw negative attention to the supplier.. but i suppose anything is possible.. everything in me thinks it was a false positive though..

<I've edited the title of your thread to suit our guidelines for posting. These are conveniently located at the top of the forum in bright red letters. PM me if you have any questions and please read our guidelines. Thanksl -Thou>

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_methocarbamol
substancecode_gabaergics
substancecode_kratom
substancecode_opiates
_combo_
explevel_experienced
exptype_negative
exptype_healthissues
exptype_bodyload
exptype_difficult
roacode_oral

 

[jeffsleep]

Well been a couple more days and despite some depression things are actually not so bad. In addition to the 5 gram dose i took 2 days following the seizure, I after several sleepless nights, took a dose of 10 grams over the course of a few hours and experience absolutely no ill effects, and have been able to,thank christ, finally relax. i think the moral of this story is never underestimate the necessity of a well maintained diet, and always respect the substance you're using, be it herbal or otherwise.

i can't say i attribute the incident to kratom entirely, as i was taking such poor care of my health over the weeks prior to the event and had taken a significant dose of 2 other substances, both of which vastly more toxic than kratom and have the ability to cause seizure in combination. Very bad nutrition,very little- almost no food for days, even weeks on end to the point of losing real weight. An entirely inappropriate amount of diphenhydramine, too much kratom, and 3 muscle relaxers to boot..When i told my pharmacist how much of the antihistamine and muscle relaxant I took i think he almost slapped me. When i think about the accumulation of everything it really isn't surprising that it all manifested in such an abrupt way.


Anyway i've been eating substantially better, getting out, trying to keep anxiety to a minimum and avoiding all "potentiators" aside from maybe a little pot. Also keeping any mild kratom use to a minimum for the next little while. Lesson learned. Hope anyone "over-doing" it with kratom can take something with them from this. it's being a herb means very little,probably best used in moderation..as with most things i suppose. Maintaining a diet is key while using, especially if doses increase. Make sure you make all purchases from a reputable vendor. Don't over use potentiators. Respect the plant, the plant will respect you... Then again most of you probably know this . It seems traumatic experience is a major learning tool in my life unfortunately.

 

[specialspack]

Paragraphs are your friend dude.

Tl;dr.

 

[jeffsleep]

Paragraphs are your friend dude.

Tl;dr.

fair enough.

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Glad to hear you're ok.

It sounds like you summed it all up. It pretty obviously wasn't the kratom, but more so the mixture of the other drugs + poor personal health. Perhaps the kratom helped push things over the edge, but I'm leaning towards extremely unlikely. Kratom has so far proven to be very safe, and most likely a person will puke it all up before they absorb a toxic dose.

Take care of yourself brah!

So, the benzos and amphetamines found in your blood, that's the part that has me scratching my head. You didn't have either of these drugs recently? Is there any more information you can get from the test?

 

[aveoturbo]

Wow. Thanks for sharing this. It serves as a good warning that you really do need to take care of your personal health, especially if adding extra things into your system.

 

[jeffsleep]

So, the benzos and amphetamines found in your blood, that's the part that has me scratching my head. You didn't have either of these drugs recently? Is there any more information you can get from the test?

You and me both sir.Had not taken amphetamines for weeks(4 or 5) prior and no benzos for days. I'm absolutely stumped when it comes to this. I had asked if there was anything they could explain about the urinalysis, how common false positives are,if there was any possibility of trace amounts left behind in my system, if there was any likely hood that the test was simply wrong. He seemed to think it was unlikely.

I've since taken the same kratom i had taken the night of the seizure. I have definitely not experienced any more convulsive symptoms, but have noticed that the particular vendors kratom seems to carry more side effects than i've experienced in the past..very likely just anxiety however, as i do have ocd and hadn't noticed said side effects prior to neurotically contemplating the kratoms safety. I have been reading up on ya ba pills in thailand, and while it seems very bizarre and unlikely i suppose it wouldn't be impossible for a manufacturer to combine relatively mild doses of amphetamine and cheap benzo to "add" to both sides of the high.. Though this makes very little sense to me, especially considering how harsh drug laws are in thailand, and the substantial risk the supplier would be taking for basically no reason..I'm also hypersensitive to stimulation and can't imagine that wouldn't be able to tell immediately. i tried to book another piss test with my family doc but he's, for some reason, off for a week (mid september break?) so that will have to wait. Until then i'm using a different vendor, which unfortunately is a 6 hour bus ride out of my way but better safe than sorry as they say..

 

[attempt4]

I can confirm that there have been GC/MS reports of Kratom circulating the states that was cut with other substances. I'm afraid I can't go any further into this. It was a couple of years ago mind, but the fact stands that unscrupulous American vendors can and will do anything to make a quick buck. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were cut with amphetamine, given that Thai Kratom is supposed to be on the speedier side of things.

I have been taking Kratom in massive amounts, daily for years now and never suffered any ill-health. In fact, it seems to have boosted my health, which is no surprise given the plethora of health benefits many of it's alkaloids have, such as CCB (calcium-channel blocking activity which can actually be used to prevent seizures) amongst other things. But that's a diffierent discussion for a different day. What I mean is it could have been anything - many things amounting to one outcome, or the other drug use, the poor health habits, stress, lack of sleep etc etc. Many things can trigger a seizure in an individual, and essentially we are all susceptible at one time or another. Many will suffer a seizure once and never again!

I am sorry to hear what happened mate. I too have suffered seizures at the hands of drugs and it is a terribly frightening thing. I have now lowered my threshold to the point where it happened a couple months ago after ingesting nothing but tobacco. It's very scary. If you need any advice or help, PM me man. It really shakes you up! I am afraid I can't commit to what caused it as I am not your doctor nor did I run any tests for you so I don't want to speculate, however I can recommend taking it easy, getting a follow-up neurology specialist to give you MRI and EEG scans to try and determine the cause.

All the best.

 

[jeffsleep]

I can confirm that there have been GC/MS reports of Kratom circulating the states that was cut with other substances. I'm afraid I can't go any further into this. It was a couple of years ago mind, but the fact stands that unscrupulous American vendors can and will do anything to make a quick buck. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were cut with amphetamine, given that Thai Kratom is supposed to be on the speedier side of things.

I have been taking Kratom in massive amounts, daily for years now and never suffered any ill-health. In fact, it seems to have boosted my health, which is no surprise given the plethora of health benefits many of it's alkaloids have, such as CCB (calcium-channel blocking activity which can actually be used to prevent seizures) amongst other things. But that's a diffierent discussion for a different day. What I mean is it could have been anything - many things amounting to one outcome, or the other drug use, the poor health habits, stress, lack of sleep etc etc. Many things can trigger a seizure in an individual, and essentially we are all susceptible at one time or another. Many will suffer a seizure once and never again!

I am sorry to hear what happened mate. I too have suffered seizures at the hands of drugs and it is a terribly frightening thing. I have now lowered my threshold to the point where it happened a couple months ago after ingesting nothing but tobacco. It's very scary. If you need any advice or help, PM me man. It really shakes you up! I am afraid I can't commit to what caused it as I am not your doctor nor did I run any tests for you so I don't want to speculate, however I can recommend taking it easy, getting a follow-up neurology specialist to give you MRI and EEG scans to try and determine the cause.

All the best.

I appreciate the kind words man. The whole thing is a bit unsettling, but all things considered life's good lately..less shaken up than i expected to be i think. I'm on a waiting list to see a neurologist for an mri,etc. so we'll see if that can't shine some light on things (in a positive way hopefuly). As far as the kratom being tampered with, it would certainly be a huge shock for me as well as my supplier/pal who also uses the very kratom i used for addiction maintenance. I don't order my kratom from faceless vendors or buy from headshops as i know a lot of people do. The kratom i buy is from a seed dispensary which has always been well reputed,purchases all kratom directly from bali, and is usually considered the most reliable supplier of kratom and a long list of other lovely botanicals( peyote, unwashed poppy seeds, salvia,the usual suspects..) in my city. it also costs 1 dollar a gram without tax, this price didn't go up ,ever, which makes me think that adding extra cost(amphetamine,benzos) would be nothing short of a huge waste of money. ya ba, which seems to be what would have been used, as it is quick acting,only active for 4-5 hours, is up to 450 baht per pill in thailand..much more expensive than the cost of kratom. if they were going to take such a large risk it would seem to HAVE to at least be financially effective.. as the youngins say, if it don't make money it don't make sense...right? haha i dunno.. my doctor is a pretty understanding guy, i'm thinking i may see what he thinks about me taking a small dose and going in shortly there after for more piss work.. i don't know, i will absolutely keep posting here if any new information should arise. again, cheers for the response, very much appreciated brother. take care.

forgot to mention, the kratom is from bali. my mistake.i also find it's verrrry sedating as far as regular kratom goes, which is why i find it so bizarre that something else would be used to potentiate the stimulant effect..the effect that people generally aren't looking for anyway, as most want it to be as much like an opiate as possible..hopefuly this gets settled by the end of the week..

 

[jeffsleep]

been back to taking kratom again quite happily(still no potentiators generally). i, along with my family, and physician are essentially convinced it occured as a result of ,primarily, starvation. the mix of diphenhydramine and methocarbamol being what put it over the edge. i've taken quite large doses of kratom again recently with absolutely no problems, in fact generally quite the opposite. i have been straying from my regular vendor, that said i payed them a visit this afternoon as im getting piss and blood work done tomorow to confirm the presence of secondary alkaloids, although i must say i'm feeling quite normal as far as being stoned on kratom goes and at this point will be surprised if something shows up.

 

[axaith]

this kinda thing annoys me generally. funnel at least SOME of your drug money into food FFS! degenerates

 

[jeffsleep]

this kinda thing annoys me generally. funnel at least SOME of your drug money into food FFS! degenerates

Pretty hard to argue with this. Anyway as i said, lesson thoroughly learned, won't be anything that happens twice if i can help it.

 

[axaith]

great

 

[Seattle_Stranger]

Very interesting read. One of the major reasons I use kratom is because it is 100% natural, I'm very anti-synthetic. I don't like amphetamines or benzos, I don't even like synthetic opioids, I like my kratom and chronic! It's very non-addictive and manageable even after long term frequent use. If I found out my vendor, or maybe even someone before the vendor, was cutting my kratom with other shit, I would see to it that their business goes under. Kratom burners seem to be a very tight knit community, and if word gets out about a crooked vendor, trust me, it would be effortless to kill nearly all their business.

Part of me wants to get one of those drug tests from Walgreens just to test myself and see if I throw any false positives.

 

[jeffsleep]

Very interesting read. One of the major reasons I use kratom is because it is 100% natural, I'm very anti-synthetic. I don't like amphetamines or benzos, I don't even like synthetic opioids, I like my kratom and chronic! It's very non-addictive and manageable even after long term frequent use. If I found out my vendor, or maybe even someone before the vendor, was cutting my kratom with other shit, I would see to it that their business goes under. Kratom burners seem to be a very tight knit community, and if word gets out about a crooked vendor, trust me, it would be effortless to kill nearly all their business.

Part of me wants to get one of those drug tests from Walgreens just to test myself and see if I throw any false positives.

i took a second piss test with the same kratom in my system..it was a false positive. i had taken 15 grams the night before and had 10 grams in me when i went in to do the second test..totally clean..i think i just battered myself with shitty living, really ultimately very little if anything at all to do with kratom. i took 40 grams over the day yesterday and felt fantastic,not even a hint of nausea much less convulsions. even took a benadryl and was totally fine. i dont know why i thought i could go so long without eating, but it was a strong reality check needless to say.won't be taking more than 50mg of benadryl, probably ever again also.anyway gonna toss some back now, off to primus in a few hours

 

[King Hop Head]

I had a similar experience with X15 extract Kratom, though I had been okay with it for the previous 3 years. I was also taking Prozac at the time, but had been on that solidly for 5 years. The only thing out of the ordinary was I had drank Red Bull energy drink earlier that day.

Did not have a full seizure, but had severe shaking, anxiety, increased body temperature, and blood pressure up.

Ended up calling the ambulance, and was taken to hostital, though discharged 3 hour later.

 

[xHippiexchildx]

Hmmm. I've used Kratom only one time. I used most things like that only once. The thing I liked most was DXM, and opiates of course. I think I read something about the chemistry of the molecules of both DXM and opiates are similar in structure. Maybe that's just conjecture though?

Anytime you go with combining drugs without research, you risk the obvious stuff that happened to you here. That's the number one prime cause of most if not all overdoses. People combine all these different drugs, and pass out, or in your case have a seizure, because they didn't research enough to know the dangers of combining said substances. There are MANY drugs out there that you are not supposed to combine with diphenhydramine.

Glad you are ok though. As I tell most people, respect the drug, and you will be fine.

 

[Abitofeverything]

So, before i start, i'de like to say this is totally anecdotal. I am in no way presenting my experience as evidence toward the possibility of seizure-causing side effects in the area of mitragynine(7-HOM). Take from it whatyou will.It should be mentioned that I have in no traditional sense been taking care of myself physically as of lately.This doesn't exclude not eating, sleeping badly, very little to no nutrition to be quite honest. An intelligent decision it is not, i realize this, but should be mentioned before i get into the "incident" as it quite likely had a lot to do with it.Since I forgot to mention in the title, I'm what most would consider "experienced" in the area of kratom.


Two days ago I, as i generally do, sat down to take my regular(daily lately) dose of kratom. I perhaps wasn't leery enough of the dose, and while it isn't unusual, i took what i'de assume amounted to about 35-40 grams ground thai(slightly more perhaps, hard to tell)over the course of a few hours . The kratom was bought at the same vendor that i've been using, quite happily, and with no ill effects for the past year. It's probably worth mentioning that i had taken it in similar doses through-out the week and experienced more nausea than usual followed by some vomiting, which i realize happens on occasion with kratom eating, especially in doses exceeding 10 grams, however in my case a dose like this is nothing over powering, and quite generally where i end off at the end of the night after a few hours of periodical dosing. Anyway I followed this up with 100mg of diphenhydramine, which is again a very typical, moderate dose for me as i have been using benadryl as a sleep aid for quite some time. This was followed with 1500mg robaxin. After an hour, and a few bowls i was feeling quite nice, listening to tacky southern hiphop, and enjoying the opiate-reminisent feeling, when i noticed i was feeling a tad uneasy. hard to put my finger on the exact sensation, sort of like the day before you get sick.. sort of jittery, nervous feeling, just generally uncomfortable. I wondered what the cause for the uneasiness was and realized i had very possibly taken 50mg of diphenhydramine more than intended,leaving me at 150mg, a dose that i to my recollection, had never even considered dabbling in..for obvious reasons.. perhaps fridays shitty experience being one of them. i got a little panicy and gave my brother a call. he assured me that my anxiety toward the misdose was probably just my ocd and that i had probably just knocked the missing pill on the floor, though if i had to be gun to my head honest, im pretty sure i knew i fucked up..


I eventually calmed down and tried to find the comfort that i was experiencing prior to my very miniature panic. I must have been sitting around for a little while (not sure if i nodded off or what, but all things considered i suppose it's a possibility). when i "came to" i was on the floor, my mother was crouched over me in tears when i opened my eyes. she informed me that i had what could only be described as a seizure. half out of it, confused and now almost instantly thrown into a full blown panic attack i tried to stand up, only before quickly realizing that moving my head forward made me feel a bizarre kind of sick. Fire department arrived quickly and hooked me up to an oxygen mask. the paramedics were there within 10-20 minutes where i was then carted off to the hospital, inadvertently scaring the shit out of my neighbours, as i later found out. when i got there they took blood, urine,did an ECG and a CT scan. The blood work showed deficient calcium, and potassium along with a list of others which aren't quite as easy to remember. the CT scan was absolutely fine which is comforting.The ECG was basically normal, and the doctor treating me had no issue releasing me, after a potassium IV, and a couple powerful vitamins which they administered orally.

I am yet to find an answer to what may have specifically caused the event,however diphenhydramine is known to have a somewhat profound effect on seizure, especially as dosage is increased. I have also found medical records of a 65 year old man who was stable on kratom for much longer than me who experienced a grand mal seizure under the influence of said entheogen, however was under status epilepticus and it's subsequently hard to determine how much of the seizure was cause by mitragynine..Since the man was epileptic logic would generally dictate that kratom was not the only factor. In addition to this I have also found a medical study depicting methocarbamol(robaxin) and diphenhydramine as having possible seizure-enducing properties when used in combination.


While it seems my searching for answers has just started i thought i'de leave this here in the hopes that it can shine some insight on my and perhaps someone else's "issue"..


cheers all..



PS. i should note that since i have returned from hospital the entire experience has left me shaken and un able to sleep. in a frustrated response to this i took a very weak dose of 5 grams of the exact same kratom i had used the day of thse seizure. i experienced no side effects.I also forgot to mention amphetamine and benzodiazepine was found in my system despite not having ingested anything of the sort. not sure if it was a false positive type deal or what but it's probably worth mentioning. hard to imagine people "lacing" kratom with speed and benzos...incredibly cost inefficient and would only draw negative attention to the supplier.. but i suppose anything is possible.. everything in me thinks it was a false positive though..

<I've edited the title of your thread to suit our guidelines for posting. These are conveniently located at the top of the forum in bright red letters. PM me if you have any questions and please read our guidelines. Thanksl -Thou>

Tagged by Xorkoth
substancecode_methocarbamol
substancecode_gabaergics
substancecode_kratom
substancecode_opiates
_combo_
explevel_experienced
exptype_negative
exptype_healthissues
exptype_bodyload
exptype_difficult
roacode_oral

This is due to Benadryl, 2x25mg is the max recommended dose. It’s very well know to have a seizure if too much Benadryl is taken.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

As far as the kratom being tampered with, it would certainly be a huge shock for me as well as my supplier/pal who also uses the very kratom i used for addiction maintenance. I don't order my kratom from faceless vendors or buy from headshops as i know a lot of people do. The kratom i buy is from a seed dispensary which has always been well reputed,purchases all kratom directly from bali, and is usually considered the most reliable supplier of kratom

forgot to mention, the kratom is from bali.

Eh didn't the 'reputated' vendor forgot to mention there is no Kratom from Bali. Its just a name that somehow stuck. But afaik refer's to Borneo Red Vein.

Most Kratom: Borneo, Malay and Thai are from plantages on Borneo. Bali is just a myth, they do have legal cannabis : Bhang and Psilocybe Mushrooms. Maybe some Kava but no Kratom.