Kratom Kratom Megathread V.2

[daturetard]

Cheers for that!


Right, so 7-OH is a metabolite formed through specific enzymatic oxidation, not just generic exposure to air. Air might degrade mitragynine over time, but it won’t reliably create 7-OH because that transformation requires biological machinery (mainly cytochrome P450 enzymes). That’s why the 7-OH content is low in raw kratom but increases after ingestion.


Yeah there are a lot of factors at play here, and it depends on storage conditions. I'm just saying that for optimum storage purposes store it in a dark, dry, cool place relatively free of atmospheric exposure.


I imagine the same is probably more or less true of kratom's shelf-life, which stands to reason.


If you have pure mitragynine (or even semi pure), the process of making 7ho is as simple as ingesting it. A lot easier and less expensive than procuring an "extremely expensive benzene reagent" and then react shit under an inert atmosphere of fucking argon gas… you know: "I'm going to the store later to pick up some groceries; should I just go ahead and snag a canister of Argon while I'm out?" Lol. I mean, yes, it's easy, but not for the layperson w/o access to a lab and chems… I mean, no doubt you're aware of this; I'm just stating the obvious for effect

What i mean is that traditionally in a lab argon is used to prevent unintentional reactions. The reaction still takes place without the atmosphere of argon, it just oxidizes the molecule less selectively. And yeah, 7ho is a minor metabolite of Mitragynine, but in order to produce it in significant quantities (and outside of enzymes &/or the body) in order to sell or use it isolated, you need to oxidize it chemically (which has a yield many many times higher than what you would achieve by just consuming it)

 

[Biomed Tech Guy]

I live on the Big Island of Hawaii.

Visited the Big Island for the 1st time in my 63 years on this planet about 1 year ago, stayed 2 weeks.
I've been out of the USA a number of times, but mostly to Mexico and once to Belize-diving which was amazing-including the Blue Hole.
Anyway, the weather and how it varies as you go from seaside to the higher elevations is amazing in Hawaii.
Truly one of the most incredible places on earth to experience.
Ran out of my 2 opioid Rx pain management meds there with 3 days to go. Found out about highly concentrated Kratom alkaloid tablets there. That saved me from withdrawals and the disasters that would have resulted, but now 1 year later I am tapering off 7OH and pseudoindoxyl as best as I can to prevent serious health issues.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

Visited the Big Island for the 1st time in my 63 years on this planet about 1 year ago, stayed 2 weeks.
I've been out of the USA a number of times, but mostly to Mexico and once to Belize-diving which was amazing-including the Blue Hole.
Anyway, the weather and how it varies as you go from seaside to the higher elevations is amazing in Hawaii.
Truly one of the most incredible places on earth to experience.
Ran out of my 2 opioid Rx pain management meds there with 3 days to go. Found out about highly concentrated Kratom alkaloid tablets there. That saved me from withdrawals and the disasters that would have resulted, but now 1 year later I am tapering off 7OH and pseudoindoxyl as best as I can to prevent serious health issues.

I was just thinking about you amigo, hope you’re doing okay

 

[Biomed Tech Guy]

I was just thinking about you amigo, hope you’re doing okay

OK so far, thank you. I'm leaning heavily on my Rx meds I just got refilled but trying not to get too deep into them.
The main thing I felt like I had to do was get my 7OH and pseudo consumption as close to zero as quickly as possible.
When the strength of the tab or tabs (dose) required to stop the: sweats, pain, and high anxiety reached around 90-120mg AND the max interval in between doses got down to about 3 hours, the alarms went off. Only being able to sleep in 3 hour segments until I had to dose another hundred mg of 7OH got my attention.
The legs of the alkaloid tabs that used to be 4-6 hours at 30mg became 3 hours tops at 100mg.

 

[unodelacosa]

in a lab argon is used to prevent unintentional reactions. The reaction still takes place without the atmosphere of argon, it just oxidizes the molecule less selectively.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't negating your comment. Yes, of course argon or nitrogen atmospheres are used to control oxidation and prevent unwanted side reactions. It's called creating an inert atmosphere. I just mean it's beyond the scope of the common person's capabilities and resources without special equipment and training.

And yeah, 7ho is a minor metabolite of Mitragynine,

Yeah like < 1%.

but in order to produce it in significant quantities (and outside of enzymes &/or the body) in order to sell or use it isolated, you need to oxidize it chemically (which has a yield many many times higher than what you would achieve by just consuming it)

To produce 7-OH outside the body in usable quantities, I agree – you need a targeted chemical oxidation; e.g.: using an oxidant like oxone (potassium peroxymonosulfate) or mCPBA (meta-chloroperoxybenzoic acid), which indeed will produce a higher yield than natural metabolism. IIRC it's something like 40% - 50% yields in the literature.

However, most ppl don't have lab access and, moreover, they don't love the idea of consuming "unintentional reaction" byproducts. And it isn't something one can safely accomplish via kitchen chemistry and without the proper equipment.

That being said I do see your point for the individual with proper lab access. Also, yeah I can see the potential appeal of this to a clandestine chemist, but that's for another discussion on another site probably…

P.s., your profile pic = awesome and hilarious!

 

[tarman]

I think it's cool that 7OH and pseudoindoxyl are available now, but it is going to result in kratom being made illegal. So in some ways when I see them at the store, I resent them because I'm just a powder user. And now I fear it's going to go away.

Edit: fixed voice transcription typo

 

[daturetard]

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't negating your comment. Yes, of course argon or nitrogen atmospheres are used to control oxidation and prevent unwanted side reactions. It's called creating an inert atmosphere. I just mean it's beyond the scope of the common person's capabilities and resources without special equipment and training.


Yeah like < 1%.


To produce 7-OH outside the body in usable quantities, I agree – you need a targeted chemical oxidation; e.g.: using an oxidant like oxone (potassium peroxymonosulfate) or mCPBA (meta-chloroperoxybenzoic acid), which indeed will produce a higher yield than natural metabolism. IIRC it's something like 40% - 50% yields in the literature.

However, most ppl don't have lab access and, moreover, they don't love the idea of consuming "unintentional reaction" byproducts. And it isn't something one can safely accomplish via kitchen chemistry and without the proper equipment.

That being said I do see your point for the individual with proper lab access. Also, yeah I can see the potential appeal of this to a clandestine chemist, but that's for another discussion on another site probably…

P.s., your profile pic = awesome and hilarious!

hey, thanks for the clarification (and the complement on my pfp ) , makes a lot more sense what you meant now. Also, i was just wondering if you'd provide a link to the procedure that would produce 7ho from oxidation of Mitragynine using mCPBA?Would the tetrahydrofuran/water route work the same as for PIFA?

It seems like a much cheaper synthesis & I looked into it a little bit but you seem more versed in chemistry than me, which is to say, I dont really understand chemistry aside from a few basics and specific reactions. I appreciate any help you can provide!

 

[unodelacosa]

wondering if you'd provide a link to the procedure that would produce 7ho from oxidation of Mitragynine using mCPBA? Would the tetrahydrofuran/water route work the same as for PIFA?

There's no widely circulated, peer-reviewed procedure that lays out mCPBA oxidation of mitragynine in full detail—but it has been reported anecdotally and used in research contexts for selective oxidation of indole systems, and it's theoretically sound. That said, most documented lab procedures for converting mitragynine to 7-OH focus on Oxone or PIFA (phenyliodine(III) bis(trifluoroacetate)) rather than mCPBA.

If you want something concrete, this patent is your best bet: US Patent US20210148049A1 – Selective Oxidation of Mitragynine to 7-Hydroxymitragynine. It outlines a method using Oxone in acetone/water, with a good yield and high selectivity. That's probably the best-documented route currently known.

The THF/water system works well with PIFA because PIFA is soluble in polar solvents. The aqueous component helps stabilize intermediates and can aid in selectivity. In theory, a similar system could work with mCPBA, but mCPBA is more commonly used in DCM or acetonitrile. Water can hydrolyze excess mCPBA or form m-chlorobenzoic acid, potentially affecting the yield and selectivity.

If trying a THF/H₂O route with mCPBA, it would be experimental territory, not something that's well documented for mitragynine.

 

[tarman]

Well I'm on day 3 of no Kratom. Had been at about 15g a day. It's been more mental than anything. I've taken 2mg loperamide to prevent peeing out my asshole every 5 minutes and it works perfectly.
Have some klonopin, gabapentin, and pregabalin. So far, just used the klonopin- binged on it this weekend, but day 3 here and well... I think i might be alright to work tomorrow. If I have to call in, so be it, they can fuck off. My coworker calls in all the time once he accumulates the time.

In any case, i'm just chillin today- took 600mg gabapentin earlier this morning,and have been throwing back some tito's shot- a half pint.

I think I can do it. It's just so mental. I also hate the thrust/shakes in bed- like i'm compelled to twitch and or rock back and forth in bed. But the klonopin has helped. Just want to use it briefly and see where i'm at. I think I'll be okay. It was a shitty wasted weekend, but in some ways, it was not. I took friday off work, so i'm 3 days in. I think I can do this.

 

[ions]

I'm on day 2 of kratom tea. 2.5g. I'm trying to taper on alcohol. It's helping me get through. However my cravings for alcohol kicked in and just taking it slow.

 

[tarman]

I'm on day 2 of kratom tea. 2.5g. I'm trying to taper on alcohol. It's helping me get through. However my cravings for alcohol kicked in and just taking it slow.

Be careful. Alcohol and Benzos can result in death from withdrawal depending on your level of tolerance. Not trying to lecture you, just saying- anything GABA related, be it booze, beer, benzos, phenibut.... be careful. It's all about the taper. No cold turkey whatsoever. Trust me.

 

[ions]

yeah, I'm not chasing kratom like I do beer. and I'm trying not to chase beer so hard for at least a brief period.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

I think I can do it. It's just so mental. I also hate the thrust/shakes in bed- like i'm compelled to twitch and or rock back and forth in bed. But the klonopin has helped. Just want to use it briefly and see where i'm at. I think I'll be okay. It was a shitty wasted weekend, but in some ways, it was not. I took friday off work, so i'm 3 days in. I think I can do this.

Get yourself some DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) and some L-Dopa. Take them at night. It will stop the restless muscles so you will be able to relax in bed. It will also bring up your dopamine levels which are low (RLS is caused by low dopamine levels).

I also suggest getting some Black Seed Oil and take high doses of vitamin C.

If you take all that stuff you should start noticeably feeling better.

Congrats, you got this.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

I'm on day 2 of kratom tea. 2.5g. I'm trying to taper on alcohol. It's helping me get through. However my cravings for alcohol kicked in and just taking it slow.

I might suggest upping the dose... 4-5g should handle your booze cravings better. You are craving dopamine. Higher doses of kratom will give you more dopamine.

 

[ions]

the level of high is satisfying enough for now. It's more the act of drinking a beverage whether sipping or gulping. doing moreso than high. just a comfortable buzz.

 

[Deleted member 585202]

the level of high is satisfying enough for now. It's more the act of drinking a beverage whether sipping or gulping. doing moreso than high. just a comfortable buzz.

Ginger ale and candy. Getcha sum.

 

[ions]

I should get some. action. that's for sure.

 

[ions]

I almost feel like I have a little anxiety doing it. like into it. kind like a little too high. geeking maybe. just unfamiliar.

 

[Passable_rock]

heyy I just got my kratom, I haven`t had it in almost a year, ideally I'd stay clear off it, but honestly right now I kinda see it as a form of harm reduction for me. I'm really trying to stop drinking, it just make me sick but I still can't stop I like ketamine alot but I already consumed too much of that in the recent times, so I bought kratom to help me stay clear off of the harder stuff. I've always liked red strains more? But I guess I'm not sure since it's mostly from reading online, and I don't really remember trying anything apart from red maeg da. I discovered kratom about 10 years ago when I wanted to some help quitting opioids, it worked well. I must have tried different strains but I don't really remember.

I've read that strains are mostly the same? and that some are "made up" or hyped-up a bit like the different cannabis strain are. I read that "real" strains are white, green and red and other colors are just a mix of those 3? and that red is fermented a bit so it lost some of its energizing qualities. Also I read that making tea is better than just straight up eating it? Is that true? As in it's a little stronger and last longer because of what the hot water does to the chemicals inside the powered leaves? I'm kinda lazy sometimes, of more like in a hurry to feel the effect from drugs, so I just heat up water to just a bit before boiling and then mix the powder and water in a glass, stirr and then let it sit for 10 minutes then chug with using fruit juice as a chaser, should I change this technique?

So yea, I like kratom and I wanted to talk about it, if anybody wants to confirm or correct what I said about it, I welcome it!

 

[Passable_rock]

Ok I had some time and I tried all the colors I had several times, I have white maeng da, green maeng da, red maeng da (I also have white super and red bali but I haven't tried those yet).

What I noticed is how the red and white seem to have the opposite on me compared to what I've read online. The red is soooo energizing, espesially without a tolerance wow I have to stop taking it or I won't sleep all night! For my 1st dose in almost a year, so absolutely zero tolerance I went for 8g of red because I wanted to finally feel the sedating effects of kratom for once because I only ever felt the energizing part. It did not procude mellowing effects, after an hour I had another 4g, still no sedation, only energy, alot of it.

After a few days I tried the white, same dosage I usualy take which is 4g and wow again but in the opposite direction, it was so sedating! I was trying to play videogames online but my performace was atrocious, I had coffee to help but it didnt help, the white was just too mellow, eyelids quite heavy. The green does indeed feel like a balanced mix of red and white. Will probably report here how I feel after those 2 strains I haven't tried.