Kratom Kratom Megathread V.2

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

That's what I'm currently doing. I was able to switch from suboxone to kratom with little discomfort. The first few days we're roughish but I was still able to go to work and everything. I had been on Suboxone for almost 2 years, having gone up to 16mg/day. I tapered down to 1-2mg before switching to kratom.

Is your ultimate goal to get off of suboxone and opioids in general? I had heard that suboxone was an easy taper but once I got to 1mg, lowering my dose any amount was pretty unpleasant. Unfortunately to help cover the WD from Suboxone and break through enough to help make the switch, I was basically just shoveling as much Kratom as I needed to feel comfortable. I imagine I was at 15g/ day or more to help get past suboxone.

Some people find Kratom easy to taper, some don't. I am one who can't taper it successfully. My dose just goes up and up. My goal was to switch to kratom for a while then hop back on suboxone at .5mg or less then taper, but that didn't work for me. So now my plan is to use kratom about 2 months out from my last Suboxone dose, as people say the initial WD from bupe is about 30 days. Once I feel safe that the 2 years of suboxone is out of my system, I will attempt to cold turkey Kratom. Since I struggle with tapers my options are a 30 day withdrawal from Buperenorphine cold-turkey or a 4-5 day withdrawal from Kratom.

So I am currently stocking up on comfort meds until I can find a time where I can afford to take 4 days off of work to just lay in bed and push through. The comfort meds I plan on getting are : Clonidine, Gabapentin or preferably Pregablin, Carisoprodol, Dissociatives (3-ho-pcp, FXE, Ketamine most likely), and maybe a stimulant of some sort. Probably loperaminde as well in case the diarrhea gets bad, and maybe 1 or 2 doses of a benzo if there are nights that I absolutely cant sleep and on a night I dont plan to use the Carisoprodol.

Personally, I think if you're able to then tapering off of Suboxone is your best bet. Kratom doesn't last long, so to avoid daytime WD you will have to take Kratom at your high profile job. Regardless of if it's legal, swallowing spoonfuls of powder or taking a handful of capsules might not be the look you're going for. If you're like me and unable to taper Suboxone successfully then I say Kratom is worth a try.

Also, I know a lot of people like to convince themselves that it's not, but Kratom is rather addictive. I actually got onto Suboxone initially due to Kratom use that I couldn't control. Ultimately you're trading one physical dependence for another, it's just a matter of finding one that has fewer side effects and that you can handle better.

Best of luck in whatever you decide

appreciate that. i have going for me i suppose is my dose of subs isnt that high - as is the time i been on compared to some others like yourself. i also have oxys and percs on hand if i choose to taper with those from subs. the thing with me is i prob didnt really need the subs. i only used oxy for 6-8 months at 60-80mg a day and other times i would use percs. when i finally said i had enough my brother of all people told me about subs. this is all new to me. i took oxy initially for a substitue to alcohol for when i had gatherings etc. i prob only needed to stay on subs for a week or 2 the most - but i never came off because i always have something going on whether its work, travel, workouts etc. i have a hectic life.
i prefer to use kratom since its prob the least addicting to come off my subs. i will eventually taper down to 1mg for a few weeks and jump on something and then either deal with those sides for a few days rather than subs for weeks. seems the logical thing to do, but will it work.
i wonder why the subs didnt work again for you.
does my situation sound easy enough to pull off with not too much difficulty?
im really confused on how to go about this - but in the meantime im tapering slowly
appreciate your insight

 

[SuperPsych]

appreciate that. i have going for me i suppose is my dose of subs isnt that high - as is the time i been on compared to some others like yourself. i also have oxys and percs on hand if i choose to taper with those from subs. the thing with me is i prob didnt really need the subs. i only used oxy for 6-8 months at 60-80mg a day and other times i would use percs. when i finally said i had enough my brother of all people told me about subs. this is all new to me. i took oxy initially for a substitue to alcohol for when i had gatherings etc. i prob only needed to stay on subs for a week or 2 the most - but i never came off because i always have something going on whether its work, travel, workouts etc. i have a hectic life.
i prefer to use kratom since its prob the least addicting to come off my subs. i will eventually taper down to 1mg for a few weeks and jump on something and then either deal with those sides for a few days rather than subs for weeks. seems the logical thing to do, but will it work.
i wonder why the subs didnt work again for you.
does my situation sound easy enough to pull off with not too much difficulty?
im really confused on how to go about this - but in the meantime im tapering slowly
appreciate your insight

It's not exactly that the subs didn't work for me the second time, it's that I still found it very hard to reduce my dosage, making a taper extremely difficulty for me.

That's the sad thing about Suboxone to me. There are a lot of instances where using it for 1-3 weeks rapidly reducing the dose would help someone like you where you were using opioids for less than a year, and now you've been on Suboxone as long as you we're what you were trying to get away from. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Suboxone is much more sustainable and doesnt get in the way of life like Oxy or other opioids. Looking back I wish I hadn't gone over 4mg and only used it for a couple of weeks, considering I was using it to get off of kratom which is a relatively weak opioid.

Every time I'd talk to my doctor with the intention of lowering my dose, they'd somehow convince me to stay on my current dose for the next 2 weekks before my next appointment. And then the same thing 2 weeks later. Suboxone is best for hardcore addicts for long term maintenance. It's a great drug for people who don't feel like they can ever be opioid free, and it's saved countless lives.

If I understand your plan, you plan on tapering down to 1mg of suboxone, staying at that dose for a few weeks and then transferring to Kratom? If so then that should be doable and fairly painless. Just listen to your body and if you need to slow down the taper then do so. The goal is to get off completely if I understand, right? So make sure it's done right, even if it takes longer. I switched from Suboxone to kratom around 1mg and it was fine. When I was maintaining through the day on 1mg of Suboxone, I stopped it completely and replaced it with Kratom. As I said, the first 4 days or so was a bit uncomfortable, and I needed a lot of kratom to push through the Bupe lingering in my receptors, but Kratom helped my withdrawal symptoms enough that I was able to sleep and go to work and everything I needed to do.

If you plan on tapering Kratom eventually, I'd recommend trying to find the lowest dose possible for you to avoid withdrawal and try your best not to go over it. Don't try to chase a high with kratom. To the opioid naive Kratom can be pretty good, but trust me, after 6 months of suboxone you wont be feeling a high. Even after the suboxone works its way out of your system. So just try to view Kratom as a maitenance med and use it as such. As a tool to avoid withdrawal, not as a means to get high.

 

[DesertHarp]

how do you think kratom would help to get off a 6 month suboxone use.
use 2-3mg a day - but want off bad. but due to my high profile job, i cant just stop. i travel a lot snd i also do public speaking for my job.
any suggestions? kratom seems interesting from what im reading - but would it work for subs at the dossge and time i have been on

I'm the wrong person to ask because I'm brand new to using kratom. Sometimes I experience withdrawal from hydrocodone. Next time that happens, I'm going to see if kratom can ease the restless leg syndrome that comes on me when I withdraw.

I hope other members can help you with what you're asking. Good luck with getting off Suboxone.

 

[PtahTek]

Kratom can be quite helpful for many "issues" as maybe you have found out by now.
It is one of my favorite general all-in-one tool in my box.
There are a few other tools but they are not quite as comprehensive in effects as kratom.
There is the phenom of addiction/dependence with kratom but depending on dose it can be mitigated fairly easily. IME.

 

[thurston]

I quit taking kratom on July 3rd and I still feel the wd, I feel like I'll have PAWS for a long time to come.

 

[DesertHarp]

I quit taking kratom on July 3rd and I still feel the wd, I feel like I'll have PAWS for a long time to come.

That's disappointing. I hope it eases for you. There must have been a downside to being on the Kratom that motivated you to get off it. I'ld be interested to hear, if that was the case.

 

[DesertHarp]

Kratom can be quite helpful for many "issues" as maybe you have found out by now.
It is one of my favorite general all-in-one tool in my box.
There are a few other tools but they are not quite as comprehensive in effects as kratom.
There is the phenom of addiction/dependence with kratom but depending on dose it can be mitigated fairly easily. IME.

I'm real new to it still. So far, I haven't felt sure I could discern any affect from it at all. But it must do something, or people wouldn't bother with it. Lately, my insomnia has been worse. I'm a bit confused as to whether Kratom might help that or not. Supposedly, Kratom can act as a stimulant. But it might also be sedating? I've read that in parts of Asia, where it grows, locals chew the leaves to enhance their tolerance for arduous or tedious work.

 

[thurston]

That's disappointing. I hope it eases for you. There must have been a downside to being on the Kratom that motivated you to get off it. I'ld be interested to hear, if that was the case.

It's addictive, expensive and makes me sweat a lot. I'm feeling a lot better this week, but I think it will come and go for a while. It's not bad.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

I'm real new to it still. So far, I haven't felt sure I could discern any affect from it at all. But it must do something, or people wouldn't bother with it. Lately, my insomnia has been worse. I'm a bit confused as to whether Kratom might help that or not. Supposedly, Kratom can act as a stimulant. But it might also be sedating? I've read that in parts of Asia, where it grows, locals chew the leaves to enhance their tolerance for arduous or tedious work.

Nobody believes me but kratom is dose dependent. Small doses ( 2-4 grams) are stimulating and larger doses ( 5-8 grams ) are sedating.

I sleep like a baby every night on 7 grams and before I found kratom I couldn't sleep for shit. I take the red strain at night but I found it doesn't matter what strain or color it is..........ya just gotta take a higher dose than what you would use for stimulation.

A hot cup of joe in the morning with 3 grams of a green or white strain and you will feel it. At night some herbal sleepy time tea and 7 grams of red and you won't feel it because you will fall asleep.

That's just me anyway. I hope you can find some effects from it because if one isn't seeking to blast off and get high off their tits and just enjoys some mild mood lifts and help sleeping then kratom can be great.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Kratom has been a God send for me. Recreational, useful for dope WDs, legal to bring/consume at work, decent at dulling minor pain. I fuckin' love the stuff.

 

[zeusko87]

Kratom, Lyrica and Parnate changed my life. Parnate and Lyrica helps for depression, anxiety, chronic knee pain. I have tried almost any AD on the market but only Maois works for me. ( Nardil- great for anxiety and social phobia, but too sedating, weight gain problems, constipation, dizziness, nausea, , tiredness all day... Parnate is much user friendly, it has few side effects. Problem with Parnate that on its own helps with atypical symptoms of depression, helps a little bit for ADHD, but not so good for GAD and social anxiety. But with augementation (Lyrica, Bromazolam) it helps also with anxiety disorders. Atypical depression is chronic lack of dopamine. Dopamine is responsible for motivation, attention, focus, sleep, lack of drive and entuiasms, sugar cravings, mental and physical fatique, low sex drive, low mood,
and feelings of sadnes, loss of interest in many activities, trouble waking in the mornong...

So when we know how dopamine is important neurotransmitter, now we can understand why only Nardil, Parnate, stimulants, Modafinil, racetams and drugs that raise dopamine works help dopamine deficiency. Kratom is natural tree of coffee family. It produces mild stimulant and opioid effects, depends of strain and ammount you tak mie. Kratom in combination with Parnate and Lyrica helps 70-80 % with all my symptoms. Kratom is euphoric first few times but then euphoria dissapear. There are 3 Kratom color of the veins of the leaf strains. White leafs ( stimulating, energizing, focus and motivation enchamen). Green leaves (boost energy, lessen pain, improve sleep, mental clarity and concetration, promote feelings of happinesd and euphoria). Reds leaves are sedating and relaxing, best to manage pain and insomnia. I use mostly greens. Magnesium bis glycinate and Agmatine are best for potentiaton and reducing Kratom tolerance.
Kratom helps for chronic pain, anxiety, depression, ADHD, anhedonia and apathy.

DOSAGE- from 1 to 10 grams. Lower doses 1-4 are usually stimulating , 4-7 are sedating, 8-10 are extremlly sedating. To avoid tolerance it is best to have at least 2 Kratom bags of different strains, so 6 different Kratoms.
My favorite Leaf is Green. But there are lot of strains of each color. Green Borneo, Green Maeng Da, Green Riau, Green Bali...

I like to vape nicotine while I am on Kratom. Vaping Bring back euphoria. But i have need to vape on every dopaminergic.

Today, i took Parnate, Lyrica, 4 grams of Red Riau Kratom and Modafinil 50 mg. And of corse 1 pill of Agmatine for tolerance issues. This combination is awesome. It helps with depression, energy, anxiety, anhedonia and gives me focus and motivation. Later i will take all the same just instead Modafinil I Will take 35 mg 2 fma. Instead of Red Riau I will take Green Borneo and instead of 1 pill of Agmatine i will take 2 pills and 1 pill of Magnesium bis glycinate. From stimulants i have been rotating Modafinil, 2-Fma, Bromantane, Phenylpiracetam and Isopropylphenidate.

 

[thurston]

I quit taking kratom on July 3rd and I still feel the wd, I feel like I'll have PAWS for a long time to come.

I feel even better now. The PAWS comes and goes but life is much better without kratom.

 

[TimTim1993]

When I did Kratom, I took 3 of the 200 mg capsules and it definitely worked and made me feel pretty good. Only thing was its expensive. At least by me it is

 

[jasperkent]

When I did Kratom, I took 3 of the 200 mg capsules and it definitely worked and made me feel pretty good. Only thing was its expensive. At least by me it is

It's all relative.

When I was hooked on oxys & hydros (not prescribed to me) I was spending $60 to $80 per day (just to get by, not to get high).
My kratom habit is costing me about $80 per month.

 

[Direwolf131]

When I was using it, it certainly did. It is, after all, an opioid full agonist.

I have a sneaking suspicion that your kratom capsules are probably not as active as they should be (could be inferior quality material, could be old material, could have been stored improperly). I have read that generally speaking, "commercial" pre-capsulated kratom has a bad reputation and can often be minimally active or inactive at all.
I would recommend finding a well regarded ethnobotany supplier who can supply large-ish amounts of the pre-ground leaf. Capsule it up yourself and store it in the fridge for best shelf life (but it's best to use it all within 30 days or so). (BL does not allow posting/discussing sources sadly)


This is how every opioid works, sadly. It is, however, dose related: if you use large amounts of kratom or use it more frequently, you will have a harder time of it than if you use small doses, less frequently.
Same as how withdrawal from 20mg of hydrocodone daily may seem awful, but it could be far, far worse if you were (for instance) abusing large amounts of street fentanyl, or taking 100mg morphine or more per day or something.

Also, I hate to tell you, using opioids is a pretty poor anti-depressant in terms of sustainability.
I would actually recommend finding somewhere that could try ketamine therapy with you. There is more robust evidence that NMDA antagonists can be effective antidepressants with effects that last long after the drug has been eliminated. You could even acquire some nitrous oxide from whipped cream chargers and see how that makes you feel (short lasting NMDA antagonist).

Just need to correct above misinformation, Kratom is certainly not a full opiate agonist, its a partial, just as tramadol is!

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Alongside being partial agonists at mu, both mitragynine and 7-OH-mitragynine appear to be biased agonists that don't induce respiratory depressing via beta arrestin. There may be some evidence that 7-OH-mit is but reports are few and conflicted right now

 

[lilith-kali]

Does anyone wanna share their experience making kratom tinctures? I plan to soak it in alcohol for 6 weeks < -- is this enough time?

I got some citric acid, ph testing strips, and am stuck between 40% vodka or 80% vodka < --- which type of vodka should I use?

Any tips or tricks would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[Greywarren33]

Hello, I’m new to this forum but was directed here from reddit. I take kratom for chronic pain, but was just prescribed methotrexate to treat my rheumatoid arthritis. I just wanted to find out if there were any dangers to mixing the two. Thank you

 

[gabafucked]

Hey all,

I'm sure a couple of you might remember my previous post that I was having crippling panic attacks in the morning. I was able to cut my kratom dose in about half (now down to 6g 4x per day and I've stayed very regimented in it. I've also changed from my once in the morning gabapentin to morning and night. I do 300mg staggered every 30 minutes for a total of 1800mg in the morning, and 1200mg staggered in the evening. Ive also stayed very regimented on this as well. The panic attacks haven't come back! I do have some morning anxiety at times, but nothing like what I was experiencing.

This morning I woke up with that "agitated" discomfort your body feels from opioid withdrawal that makes it feel like you can't sign still/get comfortable, and that's what made me decide to write this post because I usually wake up feeling poorly, but not this feeling. Especially because it was only 8 hours since my last kratom dose and 12 since gabapentin. It seems like my morning higher gabapentin dose keeps me all good for the day and into the evening, but my evening dose doesn't last until the morning to get my morning gabapentin in. This surprises me because I figured by now my body would be used to that dose and would be fine.


Now, I know I need to continue tapering and quit to fully feel better, but I'm too scared to! I don't want to get disregulated again and start spiraling with the anxiety. I still feel like shit very frequently, especially in the morning before my gabapentin (which takes forever because of the staggering, but if I just take it all at once then I won't be absorbing nearly the same amount).

Sorry for yet another way too long post but just wondering if anyone else out there has had a similar experience and has any feedback or advice. I have other issues on top of these and I really want to get healthy again, but everything always feels so insurmountable, especially when you just feel like crap ALL THE TIME. The withdrawal feelings are just worse crap haha.

 

[RustyCrackleford]

My general rule with tapering, and i think a lot of others too, is if you hit a stretch of being too uncomfortable, stop and sit at that dose a while until it passes or becomes bearable again. Then continue from there. Never go back up but its ok to stay put for a while.