• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Kratom- How to Avoid Physical Dependence

Damn well thanks knowing that I´ll be more patient then...because I was getting concerned that how I am feeling most of the time is the "normal sober baseline". The literature of "withdrawals are done in 96 hours" can be true in the most obvious physical symptoms but there is no way in 96 hours one is the same as before he/she started the addiction...

Good news is last half year of use I was so sick of how little high it was getting me, and how many downsides I had because of the habit, I dont have the slightest desire to come back.

And holy shit the withdrawal from your benzo use, I knew that kind of drugs were tough to quit, but I wouldn't imagine that it would be that hardcore. That seems even worse than methadone wd
IMO, it takes a year to really feel near 100% after any addiction. Even quitting tobacco, it's a year before the urges get few and far between.
Good news is that you get a lot better before that. That would vary as to drug.
 
There is no trick. The question you're asking is more or less asked by literally every person to ever enjoy Opiates. It is such a common question that I would describe it less as a question and more as an emotion. It is a train of thought that utterly indicates an upward trajectory towards further Opioid usage.

There was a time that I might dick around with days on and days off and all that jazz, but time has taught me that it's basically a waste of time and energy.

You are lusting after something that you know, basically every person loves so much that it robs them of their soul and asking if there is a way for you personally to avoid the thing that has happened to everyone else before you. You're not stupid or ignorant. Like I said, we've all asked this question at our respective points in time.

When someone tells an addict: "there is a 99% chance that this will end in total ruin for you" the addict hears "so you're telling me there's a chance?!". This logic is what carries every addict through every sordid compromise they make with themselves and the universe on their way down.

It's just you and your girlfriend in your apartment. You know she has cash in her wallet. You know there is no way of possibly denying that you're the one who took the money, but you know you're gonna get high, so you hold on desperately to the most insane ideas, like "maybe a burglar came in and took it", "maybe you never really had money to begin with? Darling, are you hallucinating?".

My point is, we all know how it ends. WE KNOW HOW IT ENDS. You will either continue to take Opioids and likely escalate your dosage as tolerance takes hold. Tolerance will take hold "one little extra dose" at a time over the course of weeks until something like financial or social constraints force you to look at yourself objectively, at which point, you will likely be entrenched in a more severe way with the Opioids. The more you take, the longer you take it will make it harder and harder.

Every time you take Kratom, you are strengthening your bond with it. I basically look at Opiates as being like Sauron's One Ring of Power. Everyone knows how great it is, how great it feels, how powerful it makes one feel. Everyone also knows that to be with The Ring is to be corrupted. Some are corrupted more than others, like say, Gollum and some are like Bilbo Baggins, who still thinks about and lusts over the Ring even without having worn it for some time. It is a feeling of lust that he will always remember.

There is no key. Using Opioids recreationally tends to lead to dependence. They are quite insidious really. I had been taught for my entire childhood that Heroin created addicts, devoid of independent thought or feeling. I knew from personal experience how drugs ruined families, lives and people. I knew I would never touch a drug, as then, I could be certain that I would never become addicted. I remember thinking, "what if I get force-fed Heroin and become an addict?" That is the only possible way they could get me.

Well, my first experience with Opiates really changed my perspective. I suddenly knew that I would be the only one to ever use Heroin and manage that usage successfully. I knew it would be difficult, but I just had to be smarter than the drug and bolder than those who had come before me and failed. It felt so good that nothing else mattered...
 
@Keif' Richards I get your point, but i always side with the odd possibility. I believe moderation can be achieved with kratom. I believe the solace can be harnessed for good.

Anyway, using kratom half of days sounds like being in the middle of a slippery slope already. Way too much to evade addiction. Maybe enough to constitute addiction already.

We don't really know how harmful kratom is, when used as a straight up drug. Traditional use is more like tea, right? Can't be a comparable amount of actives. There is good reason to be careful besides the risk of addiction.
 
There is no trick. The question you're asking is more or less asked by literally every person to ever enjoy Opiates. It is such a common question that I would describe it less as a question and more as an emotion. It is a train of thought that utterly indicates an upward trajectory towards further Opioid usage.

There was a time that I might dick around with days on and days off and all that jazz, but time has taught me that it's basically a waste of time and energy.

You are lusting after something that you know, basically every person loves so much that it robs them of their soul and asking if there is a way for you personally to avoid the thing that has happened to everyone else before you. You're not stupid or ignorant. Like I said, we've all asked this question at our respective points in time.

When someone tells an addict: "there is a 99% chance that this will end in total ruin for you" the addict hears "so you're telling me there's a chance?!". This logic is what carries every addict through every sordid compromise they make with themselves and the universe on their way down.

It's just you and your girlfriend in your apartment. You know she has cash in her wallet. You know there is no way of possibly denying that you're the one who took the money, but you know you're gonna get high, so you hold on desperately to the most insane ideas, like "maybe a burglar came in and took it", "maybe you never really had money to begin with? Darling, are you hallucinating?".

My point is, we all know how it ends. WE KNOW HOW IT ENDS. You will either continue to take Opioids and likely escalate your dosage as tolerance takes hold. Tolerance will take hold "one little extra dose" at a time over the course of weeks until something like financial or social constraints force you to look at yourself objectively, at which point, you will likely be entrenched in a more severe way with the Opioids. The more you take, the longer you take it will make it harder and harder.

Every time you take Kratom, you are strengthening your bond with it. I basically look at Opiates as being like Sauron's One Ring of Power. Everyone knows how great it is, how great it feels, how powerful it makes one feel. Everyone also knows that to be with The Ring is to be corrupted. Some are corrupted more than others, like say, Gollum and some are like Bilbo Baggins, who still thinks about and lusts over the Ring even without having worn it for some time. It is a feeling of lust that he will always remember.

There is no key. Using Opioids recreationally tends to lead to dependence. They are quite insidious really. I had been taught for my entire childhood that Heroin created addicts, devoid of independent thought or feeling. I knew from personal experience how drugs ruined families, lives and people. I knew I would never touch a drug, as then, I could be certain that I would never become addicted. I remember thinking, "what if I get force-fed Heroin and become an addict?" That is the only possible way they could get me.

Well, my first experience with Opiates really changed my perspective. I suddenly knew that I would be the only one to ever use Heroin and manage that usage successfully. I knew it would be difficult, but I just had to be smarter than the drug and bolder than those who had come before me and failed. It felt so good that nothing else mattered...
So what happened? Did you use heroin in a managed success way? Lol

I love your analogy, it's so true.
 
Damn well thanks knowing that I´ll be more patient then...because I was getting concerned that how I am feeling most of the time is the "normal sober baseline". The literature of "withdrawals are done in 96 hours" can be true in the most obvious physical symptoms but there is no way in 96 hours one is the same as before he/she started the addiction...

Good news is last half year of use I was so sick of how little high it was getting me, and how many downsides I had because of the habit, I dont have the slightest desire to come back.

And holy shit the withdrawal from your benzo use, I knew that kind of drugs were tough to quit, but I wouldn't imagine that it would be that hardcore. That seems even worse than methadone wd

The best thing you can do for yourself now is get into a daily workout routine. The endorphins from exercising strenuously will fill your opiate receptors, and also help your body to return to homeostatis much more quickly. Not only that, but you'll get in shape and feel better about yourself. It simply cannot be overstated how helpful this is. I don't know if you work out, or ever have regularly. But I'm talking spending an hour each day, doing 20-30 minutes of cardio (running, elliptical, rowing, well anyway really, even strenuous hiking or something), plus some weights. A gym membership really helped me. If you're not used to it, for the first few days it feels really difficult and unpleasant, but very quickly you grow to love it. I PROMISE you, you will feel so much better.
 
IMO, it takes a year to really feel near 100% after any addiction. Even quitting tobacco, it's a year before the urges get few and far between.
Good news is that you get a lot better before that. That would vary as to drug.

I'm not sure it has to be the case with opiates, though it depends on how serious and especially how long term it was. If you have years of shooting up heroin, then yeah. But if you have a light kratom habit where you regularly take days off, you can expect to feel good again in FAR less time than a year. Also, a lot of how long it takes to feel normal again after addiction is related to lifestyle choices. The most important things are: identify the things that are painful in your life that caused you to turn to drugs in the first place. Fix those things if possible. Then, find new things that make you feel fulfilled, to fill the place in your life that drugs were filling. For me, it was playing music. Lastly, working out. This helps with any addiction, but especially opiates, as working out daily produces endorphins, which will greatly reduce the duration and severity of PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome). You can get yourself feeling good on a daily basis and confident and happy SO much faster if you work out daily following a period of addiction to opiates, and also do the other things I mentioned. If you sit around and live the same life as before, it's going to take a lot of time and pain before you can move back to feeling good without drugs, but if you are proactive, you can help the process along dramatically.
 
The best thing you can do for yourself now is get into a daily workout routine. The endorphins from exercising strenuously will fill your opiate receptors, and also help your body to return to homeostatis much more quickly. Not only that, but you'll get in shape and feel better about yourself. It simply cannot be overstated how helpful this is. I don't know if you work out, or ever have regularly. But I'm talking spending an hour each day, doing 20-30 minutes of cardio (running, elliptical, rowing, well anyway really, even strenuous hiking or something), plus some weights. A gym membership really helped me. If you're not used to it, for the first few days it feels really difficult and unpleasant, but very quickly you grow to love it. I PROMISE you, you will feel so much better.
Thanks! I used to do cardio a lot some years ago. Might be a good idea to pick up the habit again, yeah, I really crave for some endorphins lol. Yesterday my peak of the day was eating a banana. Honestly only when I'm eating I feel a spark of fucking dopamine, it's nuts.

Also restarted today Yoga practice which I quit when started wd because I felt so awful. Was shocking to realize I had today more energy/less tired body at 12 day mark than when I took kratom daily. Nuts.
 
Last year and early this year I posted plenty on here about my Adderall binges. A few of you may remember. My dumb butt didn't recognize that my 100-200mg per day binges were leading to so many problems afterwards. I don't want to learn the hard way like that again.

So... that brings me to Kratom. I've learned to LOVE it. It's a double whammy... it alleviates my pain and gives me a similar productivity/energy boost as Adderall does.

BUT... I've read on here that Kratom withdrawals are tough. I don't want to find out the hard way about this, too.

So... I've been tracking my Kratom usage here lately. I usually take a level tablespoon when I do take it. So around 7 grams.

Over the last 30 days this has been my usage, in grams. You'll see that I've been using more recently compared to late October/early November.

Day 1 (Oct 21): 7
Day 2: 0
Day 3: 7
Day 4: 0
Day 5: 7
Day 6: 7
Day 7: 7
Day 8: 0
Day 9: 0
Day 10: 10
Day 11: 0
Day 12: 0
Day 13: 0
Day 14: 0
Day 15: 7
Day 16: 7
Day 17: 7
Day 18: 7
Day 19: 7
Day 20: 7
Day 21: 10
Day 22: 0
Day 23: 7
Day 24: 7
Day 25: 7
Day 26: 7
Day 27: 0
Day 28: 0
Day 29: 0
Day 30: 7

So... whattya all think? You think I can maintain a routine similar to this without running into problems?

Notice Day 15 through Day 26. Would you consider that a "binge?" I used Kratom on 11 of the 12 days during that span. I definitely felt ok. Didn't feel like a struggling, out-of-control addict. And I didn't experience any withdrawals when I stopped for 3 days recently.

However, I wish I had been tracking my gabapentin too. I think I popped 600mg the other day on Day 28. Thankfully Gapapentin is not a problem for me. My 600mg per day/30 day supply usually lasts me 45-60 days. This current script is going to last me more like 80 days, I think (mostly because of my more consistent K use).

Adderall is sprinkled through there, too. But the point is that Kratom has become my drug of choice.

Even if the consensus is that this is a fairly safe routine, I still plan to cut back some. The bowel movements are weird, and I've heard/read some stuff about it causing some sort of abdominal problem over time. Colon? Intestines? Pancreas? I'm not sure. One of those things down there.

I don't know how much this matters, but I am 200 lb male. (90 kilo/14 stone).
I'm particularly interested in your topic because I'm getting too nervous getting RC stims from NL (I live in UK) and I wondered about Kratom because its shipped from UK and within the law apparently. I need it to have a stimulant effect or its worthless to me. I've never had it before.
 
I'm particularly interested in your topic because I'm getting too nervous getting RC stims from NL (I live in UK) and I wondered about Kratom because its shipped from UK and within the law apparently. I need it to have a stimulant effect or its worthless to me. I've never had it before.
With the white mang da strand I've found that 7-10g gives me a nice lift.

But if you've have an opioid problem then beware, perhaps. According to everyone else Kratom withdrawals are hell. I can't say I know from experience yet.
 
Last year and early this year I posted plenty on here about my Adderall binges. A few of you may remember. My dumb butt didn't recognize that my 100-200mg per day binges were leading to so many problems afterwards. I don't want to learn the hard way like that again.

So... that brings me to Kratom. I've learned to LOVE it. It's a double whammy... it alleviates my pain and gives me a similar productivity/energy boost as Adderall does.

BUT... I've read on here that Kratom withdrawals are tough. I don't want to find out the hard way about this, too.

So... I've been tracking my Kratom usage here lately. I usually take a level tablespoon when I do take it. So around 7 grams.

Over the last 30 days this has been my usage, in grams. You'll see that I've been using more recently compared to late October/early November.

Day 1 (Oct 21): 7
Day 2: 0
Day 3: 7
Day 4: 0
Day 5: 7
Day 6: 7
Day 7: 7
Day 8: 0
Day 9: 0
Day 10: 10
Day 11: 0
Day 12: 0
Day 13: 0
Day 14: 0
Day 15: 7
Day 16: 7
Day 17: 7
Day 18: 7
Day 19: 7
Day 20: 7
Day 21: 10
Day 22: 0
Day 23: 7
Day 24: 7
Day 25: 7
Day 26: 7
Day 27: 0
Day 28: 0
Day 29: 0
Day 30: 7

So... whattya all think? You think I can maintain a routine similar to this without running into problems?

Notice Day 15 through Day 26. Would you consider that a "binge?" I used Kratom on 11 of the 12 days during that span. I definitely felt ok. Didn't feel like a struggling, out-of-control addict. And I didn't experience any withdrawals when I stopped for 3 days recently.

However, I wish I had been tracking my gabapentin too. I think I popped 600mg the other day on Day 28. Thankfully Gapapentin is not a problem for me. My 600mg per day/30 day supply usually lasts me 45-60 days. This current script is going to last me more like 80 days, I think (mostly because of my more consistent K use).

Adderall is sprinkled through there, too. But the point is that Kratom has become my drug of choice.

Even if the consensus is that this is a fairly safe routine, I still plan to cut back some. The bowel movements are weird, and I've heard/read some stuff about it causing some sort of abdominal problem over time. Colon? Intestines? Pancreas? I'm not sure. One of those things down there.

I don't know how much this matters, but I am 200 lb male. (90 kilo/14 stone).
How old?
 

 
This post is intended for anyone that has helped me out in this thread: But mostly directed towards those of you that have already tried to help me out: Snafu in the Void, BK38, and my new friends cdin and Xorkoth (why won't these names hyperlink so you can get the alerts? If there's a way to address multiple members, someone please let me know)

But based on what I've told you are you guys surprised I haven't already experienced WDs?

Again to summarize, I have been using Kratom fairly regularly for about a year or so. Earlier this year I had more off-days BUT larger doses. I'm going to estimate I used Kratom on about 40% of days. BUT I was using much higher doses. I know I used 30g in a day many times earlier in the year, and found out quickly at least one of the purposes behind the "less is more" theory.

But over the past few months my Kratom days have increased to more like 70%. But my dosing is far less. Almost always 7g per day.

So, I'm guessing my dosing in any given month has balanced out to be about the same.

SO... my question is: Are you guys surprised I haven't experienced WDs yet? Or, is a year not long enough and/or have I given myself just enough breaks to avoid that? But you suspect I'm on PACE to eventually experience WDs.

Again, I'll say that I do NOT know what opioid or Benzo WDs are like. I HAVE abused them. But just for a couple three days and then I want to get back to reality (which often includes stimulants).

My plan is to cut back the frequency. After today I'm going to give myself at least a 1 week break from Kratom, then I'll probably start toying around with once or maybe twice per week. I'm also going to trim the dosage back from 1 tablespoon to 2 teaspoons (so, roughly 4.7g instead of 7g).

I would LOVE to use it most days, but I can embrace Kratom as an occasional thing. Might as well commit to that before I go down a rabbit hole, right? I can stick with Adderall and as-needed Gapapentin as my primary drugs, with Kratom as my bonus, occasional treat to give myself short breaks from the others.
Most individuals (most) who have experience with kratom withdrawals were on buprenorphine or oxy/dope and switched directly to Kratom. This is *highly* not recommended.

If anyone is about to clean themselves up from opiates, and considering using kratom: save yourself a big giant headache and detox yourself for a week, 4days min, *then* use kratom for Paws. If you attempt to switch right away, you'll end up taking 6-9mg doses every 5hrs, you'll have to dose right before bed to sleep properly, in 4 or 5 hrs you'll need to wake up to dose again and fall back asleep.. it is this which creates horror stories.

Be safe ✌️
 
So what happened? Did you use heroin in a managed success way? Lol

I love your analogy, it's so true.

I would say I used Heroin "successfully" for a long time. My only goal was to take Heroin and go to work. I was an English and sometimes History teacher and I was usually in another country. When you're the goofy, weird American living in Iraq or Cambodia, I think it's easier for people to look at you and say, "well that's just how they are in America", whereas some of my "moments" would never have passed as okay if I were teaching at a High School in Boston.

I only had to go and entertain kids by talking about subjects that I truly loved learning about myself. I pulled it off for several years. Still, my addiction was eating away at me during those years. The whole process wasn't sustainable. I know that there are decisions I could've made, zigging instead of zagging, little things, that could've allowed me to keep using Heroin indefinitely, but nobody is perfect and we make mistakes. Eventually, I found myself too tolerant to Heroin to even get high and with all of those terrible emotions that caused me to start using Heroin in the first place and I completely imploded.

However, I use Methadone today. It's amazing what a crazy difference the simple notion of going to the clinic once per day brought to my life. Did I want more Opioids in the evening, sure, sometimes, but did I want them enough to go get them? Not really. I knew all I had to do was wait until morning, I wouldn't be sick and I would be fine, no consequences, no lies, no bullshit and I was willing to wait for that. Now, if I had unlimited Methadone sitting on my shelf at all times within arm's reach? It would probably be different.

I think taking the element of control out of the situation helps us maintain normal usage. I think there has to be some separation between ourselves and the drugs.
 
taking gabapentin is going to mask your physical withdrawals. Frankly I’d be surprised if you even would notice them without 7 days off kratom
 
Top