Kratom Antagonists and Opiates

[keeponkeepnon]

Ok so I didn't know where to put this but no one can begin to answer this question for me.

Been taking kratom bali plain leaf (some extracts back in the day) for 3 years daily. Pain management.

So any day I have taken kratom pain killers of ANY kind simply just do not work accept aleve. (Vic,Oxy,Diladud,Codiene)

When without kratom for a day or so pain killers still will not work with two exceptions. Poppy Seed Tea & Tramadol.

Can anyone shed some light on why RX medications just do nothing to me ?! It is truly frustrating. Have the Kratoms antagonists permanently changed my brain ? I'm mainly worried because I cannot afford 85 dollars every 5 days for Kratom and would like to have a conversation with my doctor about getting on some pain management aside from the tramadol which really just scratches the surface.

I apologize if this needs to be moved I just wondered when taken into consideration that PST works very well. Does this lead towards any suggestions as to what medication might work for me ? My appointment is tomorrow at five any input between now and then would melt my heart. Thanks.

 

[sekio]

Kratom doesn't have opioid antagonists in it...? it's just another opioid agonistic drug.

Give it a few days to wash out of your system and you should be able to get pain relief form an equianalgesic dose of oxycodone or whatever. Depending on how long youve been using kratom, how frequently, and how much, your opioid tolerance might actually be really high. Some kratom can be really potent, & with daily use you'd definitely build a tolerance.

Poppy seed tea is basically a self-titrated oral morphine extract, so it makes sense that would work. I think your tolerancce is just too high for pharmaceutical opis to be very effective...

Tramadol works by killing pain (partially) in a totally different way, perhaps you should look into that.

 

[keeponkeepnon]

Yeah I'm familiar with Tramadol and its SNRI action which is actually one of the very reasons I dislike it. To even begin to take the edge off I have to take 200-400 mg daily as Rx'd by the doctor but when I reach anywhere near those levels I feel compelled to take some of my klonopin prescription because my heart gets racing and I feel very edgy. Quite the opposite of the intended goal.

Kratom does in fact have opiate antagonists in it as well as agonist this is what gives Kratom it's self limiting experience in a sense it's kind of like a plant based Suboxone minus the hardcore MU agonist.

I have brought this pain issue up with my doctor countless times and he never seems to want to budge beyond tramadol. Would it be wise to share with him the negative side effects it is causing ? The pain just gets to be so bad my legs begin vibrating and every inch of my muscles and skin and bones just feel like they are being put through a wood chipper but I don't know how to convey this to him. He is a good family friend, and extremely caring compassionate doctor who is generally willing to do anything to help. It's just when it comes to pain relief I feel as though it's so taboo to even push the subject matter. I mean for all I care I would be willing to try something as simple as T4's. Usually I can just come right out and suggest the drug I feel would be best suited to me and he has no problem with it. Any tips on what medication would work in this instance as well as the option of being non synthetic, semi synthetic, and completely synthetic. Given my explanation of current Kratom/Tolerance stance.

Thanks guys this has just been really weighing on me as I have a new job almost lined up and I cannot be in this much discomfort. Also spent the day driving around with a friend across two states looking for pods NOWHERE and I mean nowhere do they even carry the most basic dried flowers. Everyone's response was oh well 5 years ago I had a huge selection. Frustration. Given that the blend of opiates in PST and PPT seems to work so well for me I'm seriously considering turning to the internet. I have never had the opportunity to give PPT a whirl but it sounds basically a whole hell of a world easier. I know there is absolutely no sourcing discussion but may I ask are there still quality vendors that exist if having completely the proper research ? Anyway fingers crossed.

 

[sekio]

Kratom is much more of a mu agonist from the 2 main alkaloids than an antagonist or mixed agonist-antagonist. It substitutes for e.g. opium and doesn't produce precipitated w/d, like suboxone.

 

[Incunabula]

I have brought this pain issue up with my doctor countless times and he never seems to want to budge beyond tramadol. Would it be wise to share with him the negative side effects it is causing ? The pain just gets to be so bad my legs begin vibrating and every inch of my muscles and skin and bones just feel like they are being put through a wood chipper but I don't know how to convey this to him. He is a good family friend, and extremely caring compassionate doctor who is generally willing to do anything to help. It's just when it comes to pain relief I feel as though it's so taboo to even push the subject matter. I mean for all I care I would be willing to try something as simple as T4's. Usually I can just come right out and suggest the drug I feel would be best suited to me and he has no problem with it. Any tips on what medication would work in this instance as well as the option of being non synthetic, semi synthetic, and completely synthetic. Given my explanation of current Kratom/Tolerance stance.

Yes, off cause you should tell him about your bad reactions to tramadol, and that it just doesn't cut it.

I think you should tell him everything you wrote here, really. Getting your pain-meds of the internet is not a sustainable solution when you really need them for pain. Getting a proper RX for something that works well for you will just make your life so much better.

Good luck

 

[amanitadine]

The primary antagonist in kratom- coryantheidine, is present in tiny amounts, like substantially less than 1% of the total alkaloid mixture, and the partial agonist, 9-HO coryantheidine IIRC is even less prevalent. Not enough of each to be pharmacologically significant IMO. This whole "antagonists of kratom" thing is used by the kratom maintenance in lieu of other opioids crowd to feel better about it all. The "ceiling effect" is not reall such, it is the other effects of all of the alkaloids present overwhelming the MOR agonism of the mitragynine and the 7-OH. Kratom is a very complex mixture of goodies.

Your problem is due to tolerance. PST tea works because it powers through such, and your are feeling the SRA and NRI effects of the tramadol. Go without the kratom, or anything else, for a few days and you'll respond to opioids again.

 

[Epsilon Alpha]

It's probably a wash out issue, or perhaps a issue of "non-standard" pain. You haven't specified the nature of your condition, so perhaps something more aimed at neuropathic pain or the like.
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