Kratom Kratom advice for a newbie.

[50shadesofDave]

Hello people, hope you are all well.

My GP has decided I need to come off my prescription of DHC Continus 90mg x two per day, I tried this under the care of the pain clinic in around 2016, due to knee and ankle injuries, very painful and I never found the up and down feeling of co codamol or tramadol effective, I'm not really into opiods but the continus seemed to work well, and certainly kept me in work.

I'm now on 60 x 2 per day, and will be dropping to regular dhc with a taper off those.

I didn't really want to have to go shopping for another substance given I have a benzo issue, but i wake at around 5am aching joints and walk like a robot. Given that my work is varied but mainly physical I need help with full time pain.

What i'm looking for is a Kratom that will be good for pain, and also an effective wake up in the morning, coffee doesn't work for me.
Also what are the starting doses for 5'10 75kg bloke?.

I did try it years ago but didn't respond to it, this was a sample pack of lots of various powders.

I appreciate any advice

 

[Bleaney]

What sort of pain is it that you have?

Red Vietnam is meant to be good, as are most of the reds. They are meant to be relaxing rather than stimulating, but I find that the reds do both for me. If you wanted stronger stimulation then you'd probably need to mix in maybe 1 to 2 g of a white, along with around 3g of red.

I'd say 5g is a good dose for the supplies currently easily available within the UK.

The current stuff is not a patch on the stuff that was available from the NL in the early to mid 2010s - in terms of euphoria, sociability, and music enhancement; that stuff was amazing!! But unfortunately that supplier shut up shop following the NPS Act.

Current UK stuff is still worth a try I'd say. I've sent off a sample to wedinos and they posted the result as genuine Mitragyna speciosa. (I think that's just the Latin name for Kratom, AFAIK.) You can buy small amounts of sample packs.

I'd been using it for years with no signs of physical dependence. Totally unlike the stuff from the NL which did not take long to become highly physically and mentally addictive - it was that good.

But the last few months have been kind of weird re kratom. A mild physical dependence finally seemed to catch up with me, I've tapered my dose down to one small dose per day, with the occasional binge on any days off. And have been feeling mild w/ds throughout this whole process. They generally only last 1 day after a binge. No matter if it was a one whole day or a 5 whole day binge. But now I seem to have suddenly lost the w/d feelings.

Maybe the taper and reduced dose eventually had the desired effect. I'm not in any rush to get back to taking multiple 5g+ doses daily. But for the time being I'm not sure whether to stick to a small maintenance dose most days, and then the occasional full dose is a lot more enjoyable. It doesn't really deliver for me if I try to chase that every day. I hope to quit daily use all together fairly soon. But am using a pretty lame excuse to self to continue using a little longer.

Taking it for pain is obviously completely different. It is said by many to be effective. Mind you I've found weed to be more effective for most of the moderate muscular or tension related pain that I get - headaches, knotted back muscles, Proctalgia fugax too.

One thing I find with kratom is that it makes it so easy to waste entire days without doing anything worthwhile or productive. I can be content to browse and post on the internet all day or watch youtube etc. I've found that I'm much more likely to get useful things done, if I dont take kratom. But sometimes the energising effects can help with chores.

It's quite a weird, complicated, and unpredictable substance. It works via the opiate receptors, not sure if you knew, but that probably explains its addictive potential and also potential pain killing effects.

There are some foreign suppliers in Europe and the USA, some of whom are said to be good, but the chances of seizure by customs is very high. Considering how bulky kratom is, and I believe customs have cottoned on to the packaging and labeling used by various firms. I also think Brexit probably played a role, with tighter checks on inter-European packages coming into force since then.

A lot of people say that all the strain names, even the different colours is just marketing bullshit. I strongly disagree. There were huge differences between the strains available from the NL vendor in the 2010s, todays stuff maybe there's no huge differnce between the strains, but there is a big difference between the reds, greens, whites, and yellows as a whole, in my experience.

I'm probably going to have my one and only dose of the day soon. Just waiting for those signs of hunger pangs to kick in first. It's definitely 100% more effective on an empty stomach.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Kratom is very weak, significantly weaker than DHC IMO. I don't know how much use it will be to you if you're used to DHC.

The various strains are largely a meme, just buy whatever. Allegedly red is more "sedative" and white more "stimulant", but I'm not sure how much of a difference there really is.

I never had a problem getting it shipped over from Europe, but if you do that you're breaking the Psychoactive Substances Act, which you won't be if you're ordering UK>UK. Though I don't know of anywhere that ships from the UK.

 

[50shadesofDave]

Cheers folks, it's mainly from a motor cycle accident, ruptured ACL/PCL and Meniscus tears of both knees, combined with bilateral plantar fasciitis, all four joints ache really badly, made worse by having to wear steel toe cap boots.

I did try to find work in a different sector last year with no luck, and I'm in a good job otherwise.

I'm in a better position pain wise than when I was initially prescribed DHC but still have arthritis pain, I can't take Anti inflammatory meds due to asthma.

I did try and stop the DHC last year but bounced around a couple of jobs where I ended up needing it, I get extremely leg weary, as if i could crumple at any time.

Appreciate your time and words folks.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

What sort of pain is it that you have?

Red Vietnam is meant to be good, as are most of the reds. They are meant to be relaxing rather than stimulating, but I find that the reds do both for me. If you wanted stronger stimulation then you'd probably need to mix in maybe 1 to 2 g of a white, along with around 3g of red.

I'd say 5g is a good dose for the supplies currently easily available within the UK.

Well i would start slow weighing 65 kg a dose of 2.5 gr. Is depending the strain.
Just right, but when i got something new, i titrate upwards as the naussea when overdone. Is about as bad as Poppy Pods homegrown are, these alway s nauseate me. No matter the dose, even a under-dose i can only lay on my stomach.

Kratom is better forgiving and shorter acting but i try to avoid it.

The current stuff is not a patch on the stuff that was available from the NL in the early to mid 2010s - in terms of euphoria, sociability, and music enhancement; that stuff was amazing!! But unfortunately that supplier shut up shop following the NPS Act.

It defeinetly matters the stuff direct from Indonesia was the highest quality.
And despite being legal in NL, shipments direct from there are taking in custody by the border-cops. The reason that company started using a national Vendor who does receive the good s.

a citation from their site "Currently shipping to the UK is possible. Please do not order more then 2 kg, you could get import charges."

This Kratom is about on par with direct from the source. Which was roughly twice as strong as Head-shop material. The price is higher. But better then no good s i assume.

Wonder how long this plant will be remain legal. Kava Kava didn t make it.

And was a lot less popular, i do notice that these day s even addiction specialist s know the name Kratom. Few years ago they had to look it up.

They still believe it is equal to shooting Heroin which i have no experience with.
But i believe is scare-mongering of lack of knowledge.

Can t rule that out. They still don t know Xyrem is GHB. That is why there is no real medical treatment. So you have to but bring your own bathtub GHB,
and taper with that under professional ... supervision.

Current UK stuff is still worth a try I'd say. I've sent off a sample to wedinos and they posted the result as genuine Mitragyna speciosa. (I think that's just the Latin name for Kratom, AFAIK.) You can buy small amounts of sample packs.

It is Latin like Sempervivum Tectorum or Papaver Somniferrum. Sound s good imo.

I'd been using it for years with no signs of physical dependence. Totally unlike the stuff from the NL which did not take long to become highly physically and mentally addictive - it was that good.

That was what i witnesed in reverse going from the quality product. And buying online or direct in a head-shop. It was barely 1/ 2 the strenght. I used to order from teh UK.
But that stooped at a point. But you can order from UK so what is the status of the plant.

It s still a bit grey here as it get s sent to you under a different name. Or as DIY incense powder, that was a vendor i used a long time ago.

But they do work as if it is a bit shady. Atm it is sent under disguise of a other plant. Which give the 'not ment for human-consumption' vibe.

Wonder why, its not black and white but gives me that is it legal/ tolerated/ illegal.
Like the blanket ban, NPS. Benzodiazepinen were not included. Which was weird.
But they did stop selling them, without any notice or explanation. Imo they should be only beavaiable prescribed. But as dr s don t wanna prescribe them.

This was the only way to get them legally.

 

[50shadesofDave]

It's like I start struggling with stairs, or start to flag when lifting objects repeatedly.

I'll try a white strain for the stimulation.

Thank you folks.

 

[Bleaney]

@emkee_reinvented

The current NL vendors are not the same ones, as the one who was selling fire product in the early 2010s.

I've heard most people say that most of these vendors are quite "meh" with maybe just one or 2 good ones with good strains.

Although the kratom from the UK supplier lacks the euphoria of the 2010s NL supplier, (they must have been importing their products from Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo etc) it is much stronger. 5g is a good dose, whereas 10g was a good dose from the other supplier. Take much more than 5g and you start to get horrible tremors and things like that. There are so many variables, from different suppliers, to different individuals.

I think maybe something has gone wrong at the very source, with the product just no longer being what it once was. I have no idea what the reasons for that might be.

It could also just be my brain chemistry no longer responding in the same way, but I don't think that is the case.

I definitely don't think even the very best kratom would be anything like shooting heroin, but that 2010s stuff was very good. The best red strains from that vendor might have been quite similar to opium, they really were so good, and this is a comparison I've heard a psychiatrist use. (And this psychiatrist seems to know what he is talking about. Unlike many other "professionals" in the field who may also be psychiatrists, or substance recovery workers etc who really don't have much of a clue about many of the more relatively obscure substances.)



Today's UK stuff doesn't really even equal codeine. Although some days it does hit the spot a lot more effectively than others. It's very unpredictable and confusing as to WTF is actually going on imho.

Final Edit: Today's annoyingly increasingly painful headache has now disappeared following me taking 2 paracetamol, 1 ibuprofen, and 5g of Bali Gold about an hour ago. Obviously I don't know which of the 3 helped the most, but maybe all 3 did.

Although according to Trump and RFK I may be risking making my Autism worse by taking paracetamol

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Kratom seems very inconsistent, both from person to person, and even dose to dose within the same person. Even more so than other drugs.

 

[Bleaney]

Yeah I agree that definitely seems to be the case these days. It wasn't like that in the 2010s though. I don't know what has changed, but I wish someone did.

Maybe all the high grade grows are now much more strictly monitored and controlled, and maybe nobody cares too much about any lower grade stuff, which seems to be what is making up most of the European consumer market these days.

That's just my best guess anyway.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

@emkee_reinvented

The current NL vendors are not the same ones, as the one who was selling fire product in the early 2010s.

I've heard most people say that most of these vendors are quite "meh" with maybe just one or 2 good ones with good strains.

My vendor mailed me that shipments were not arriving at customers because orders didn t get trhough customs. So he changed the ordering. It would first be transported to a Dutch vendor National. Selling the same product for a bit higher price.

Better then have your 800 gram sitting in a douane port.
That ammount i would buy bi-montly from Indonesia.
He is Dutch so he he just wrote back to me in Dutch, that was a surprise.

Gave a lot of info about the Kratom he sold. Which was all grown in the Indonesia group of islands

They grew Thai Kratom, Malaysian, Borneo and Indonesian. And told me that historically there is no Bali Kratom, just a marketing name that stuck. He was the first to mention this. Still the name persists.

Although the kratom from the UK supplier lacks the euphoria of the 2010s NL supplier, (they must have been importing their products from Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Borneo etc) it is

Not from Thailand or Malaysia, according to him. But he worked from Indonesia.
So it is possible but in Indonesia it s not illegal. Guess in Malaysia it s prohibited too.
I am sipping on some powder full, Limited Edition [LE] White Kratom and a special extract/ the extract features dark green, grainy particles that have a reflective appearance.

And i tit-rated up ward s, had nausea during as it is pretty powerful about 1.75 is a dose. Though not really found my sweet spot. Normally i don t buy extract s.
But it was a long time ago i bought Kratom, and such a nice extract.

Powerful but not too. Maybe near double strenght ?

 

[Bleaney]

But you can order from UK so what is the status of the plant.

As far as I can make out, it's not illegal to possess kratom in the UK. But it is definitely illegal to sell and to import it into the UK.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

So NL breaches the Law/ you can order from UK ?, thy state.
Like my OG vendor, years ago, informed me that orders despite legality.
Were stopped at the border, and the domestic vendor did get the the bulk order through custom. And in NL. it is legal, the government is above the law of-course so can do as they want. I still awaiting a ban.

That its not il-legal by now is amazing, but that s what i thought about GHB/ GBL too. And that is still legal, on paper for non human consumption.
But still expecting it will get on someones list, there always bored politician s looking for drugs to control. They got pretty far. This is gonna be a big brother state, in no time.

Better to be of things about to be banned.

It s that i can t find a place were i belong, a place where creativity blossom s, creating drugs equal s Poetry @Rectify and misfit scan wear there outfit s. Or i d become a refugee !

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

It's illegal to import anything psychoactive other than alcohol and nicotine, even if it isn't covered by the misuse of drugs act

I don't think it's enforced very strictly, I've never heard of anyone getting done for importing personal use amounts of Kratom etc

 

[Bleaney]

It's illegal to import anything psychoactive other than alcohol and nicotine, even if it isn't covered by the misuse of drugs act

I don't think it's enforced very strictly, I've never heard of anyone getting done for importing personal use amounts of Kratom etc

Yeah, I have heard of several people getting their kratom seized by Border Force though, and them receiving a strongly worded warning letter instead of their kratom order.

Basically saying 'We've seized your kratom under the controlled substances Act, and you'll be in deep shit if we catch you doing anything like this again, and don't think this means you've got away with it this time either, as we have informed the police, who may follow this up.'

Fortunately I think most police forces are probably so overstretched and underfunded that they don't have the time for that kind of thing - for kratom.

Obviously it would be a very different matter if Border Force were to catch anyone importing virtually any other controlled drug. Kratom is possibly the softest one to get caught out with, in legal terms.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

Yeah that's colloquially called a "Love Letter", you'll just get that for importing non wholesale amounts of class A most of the time

 

[Bleaney]

Even heroin, opium, crystal meth, or coke etc?

So you'd only get a warning if importing those via the mail? Sounds doubtful tbh.

If you tried smuggling any of those through a border, on your person, luggage, or vehicle, you'd surely get a lot more than a warning?

Obviously depending on the amounts, and which particular border it is. Obviously you're fucked if it's Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc, even Australia is very hardline on such matters too. But not as bad as some of the middle Eastern countries.

 

[GulpingBatteryLiquid]

In Britain, yeah, you'll only get a love letter if you're importing relatively small amounts of those drugs you've mentioned

Plus it's extremely unlikely that you'll even be caught if you're importing smallish amounts, I never did

 

[RyGly76]

Hello people, hope you are all well.

My GP has decided I need to come off my prescription of DHC Continus 90mg x two per day, I tried this under the care of the pain clinic in around 2016, due to knee and ankle injuries, very painful and I never found the up and down feeling of co codamol or tramadol effective, I'm not really into opiods but the continus seemed to work well, and certainly kept me in work.

I'm now on 60 x 2 per day, and will be dropping to regular dhc with a taper off those.

I didn't really want to have to go shopping for another substance given I have a benzo issue, but i wake at around 5am aching joints and walk like a robot. Given that my work is varied but mainly physical I need help with full time pain.

What i'm looking for is a Kratom that will be good for pain, and also an effective wake up in the morning, coffee doesn't work for me.
Also what are the starting doses for 5'10 75kg bloke?.

I did try it years ago but didn't respond to it, this was a sample pack of lots of various powders.

I appreciate any advice

Hello, look into Bali by Royal. Found everywhere. For me it works far better. I'm TYPE 2 and have neoropothy (misspelled)