• H&R Moderators: VerbalTruist | cdin | Lil'LinaptkSix

Kratom Addiction/ Need Help After Withdrawals Are Over

Feelinblue- I just wanted to say I feel your pain. I get the anxiety when I stop as well, which I think is the hardest symptom of all. How are you feeling now? I would surmise that it gets better with time, but I've never waited long enough to find out.

tkarr-I, as well, feel the withdrawals from going down in usage as well. It's pretty ridiculous. I am down to 13 grams (was up to 16) went to bed at 2 AM and was wide awake at 6 AM for no apparent reason, except I was sweating. Tried to wait it out, but 2 hours later I was still awake, and had to take 1 gram to get some rest. The only symptom I've never gotten, even from stopping roxys, was the RLS syndrome. I've heard potassium is good for that, maybe try some good coconut water? Has more potassium than bananas.

I have more to add to must eat :D
 
I feel your anxiety ... I too have stopped Sub about 2 months ago with the help of Kratom. I really like its gentle aroma and white vein energy but am confused as to what everybody doses comparatively. I have been doing about 2 tablespoons of powder via toss and wash with apple juice. I am doing 5 days week but have experienced some incredibly severe anxiety attacks. Weird ones ... I can reason myself out of the worst mentally but physically Kratom does something strange to the meaning of anxiety. I'm physically really healthy but am curious as to what if any strain and dose may ease the anxiety. I know we should all just back off all this shit but I don't drink ... & Thinking a little Proper K is cool.
 
I posted another response right after the other day, guess it didn't show up, oh well.

lessmore- It's difficult to measure kratom since grams measures weight, whereas a tablespoon measures volume. What I did was got empty capsules to put the kratom in from Whole Foods (when I did toss & wash it sometimes made me nauseous). Doing it this way also had the added bonus of knowing exactly how many grams I was taking per day (if I took 12 pills, each capsule held about 1 gram, so 12 grams). But supposedly, a teaspoon of kratom is equal to 3 grams. So for you, 2 tablespoons (3 teaspoons in a tablespoon)= 18 grams per day. I was averaging about 16 per day.
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/379155-Best-way-to-measure-out-grams-And-Kratom

I don't think I ever specifically took white vein, but I do know that Bali was my favorite since it didn't give me the jitters as much as Thai. And oddly enough, it was always the cheaper one. Whether you want to continue on with kratom or quit is up to you my friend. Only you know if it is affecting your life negatively or not.

It's freaking hard. I've been trying to quit for months, but the withdrawals got to me so hard. Even dropping down slightly has caused me to wake in the middle of the night, drenched with sweat. So here I am now. The past week or so I got down to 14 grams, then 12, then 13, 12, 11, 11, so far only 2 today of 15X that I had left over from times I ran out of the regular and had to buy from kava bar. I only have 2 left, then I am done. I am praying that I can get through this. I work weekends, so I am hoping 4 days is enough to be normal at work. I start school again I believe January 7th. I want to get through the worst of it before all that.

I've been encouraging myself, reading reading reading online about opiate addiction (and let's be real- it is an opiate, albeit a "less strong and natural" one). I think I never got too far with quitting any opiate since the age of 21-22 because I never allowed my brain to heal. I'd sometimes quit for a couple of days, another time I made it almost 2 months. But the depression, boredom, etc always set in and I always went back. I am determined to get through this. I can't wait to be sober and clear-headed and in control.

I am going to quit smoking soon as well, so I've been taking a smoking cleanse, which helps since I can't drink alcohol in it. As an added bonus, this helps me explain to friends my "miserableness"- I can blame it on quitting cigs. Of course I keep second-guessing myself and feeling like now is not the time (especially since I'm hormonal), but I am going to try and push through.

Happy New Years everyone. To everyone who wants to quit, or has already, I wish you the best of luck. You can do anything you put your mind to. There are people who have healed from this, and you can too. It just takes time. Be patient with yourself. To everyone who doesn't want to quit, hey, that's your decision. Only you know what works for you. 9 years of addiction is enough for me. I'll be back to update. Take care %)
 
It's Pods here again. Whew. I keep telling some of you I'm going to stay steady with my checkings-in here, but I've been down the tubes the last month or so. After about 30 or 40 days kratom free and totally clean (except my very small doses of benzos from my doctor which I don't abuse) I had this amazing (at the time) thought. Thinking, by the way, for me, should trigger a giant fucking alarm with lights and sirens and stuff. Anyway, I thought, kratom's no big deal, I can just use a little, you know, for an energy boost since my sleep was shitty for a few nights. SO I got some at the over=-priced place on my way to work one day. Poof, a few weeks later I'm ordering it online again, and shit yall.... WHY WHY WHY?

Now here it is New Year's day and I'm sitting here with the chills setting in, some sneezing, and my last kratom dose was last night about 8:30 pm. That's about 20 hours ago. So, tomorrow should be the worst of it, the day I go back to work. And I didn't even plan on quitting today. Last night I was thinking about how I'd go about getting out to the place I buy kratom and getting some more. But I woke up this morning just fed up. I don't know if it's the new year or what. I just don't wanna live like this.

My first real kick on kratom was after using for 4 months as a transition from a serious poppy pod powder habit. I think that one was worse than this will be because I never fully withdrew from the pods before I got the kratom going. I went 2, no, 3 days without a couple weeks agao and it wasn't that bad. I planned on staying clean then, but it didn't happen. Something's different now though.

I think before, without realizing it, I wanted sobriety and to be clean for others more than for me. Now I'm not feeling like I give two shits how proud of me or happy for me others are. Looking back though, I think that's what it was before. Look at me, ya know? I'm clean and sober and how amazing for an effed up alcoholic/addict with more issues than a medical journal.

Now, I have some extra benzos for this kick, and will take immodium as needed. I took slightly less than my prescribed dose of benzos for several weeks so I could take slightly more while the anxiety rears its ugly head. I'll have to get through work tomorrow feeling pretty poorly. But if I use the benzos to combat that I can make it through. Now, does that constitute justification for abuse? Am I abusing the benzos if I'm combating the anxiety from WDs?

I dunno. People who say benzos are their DOC and who love being benzoed don't make sense to me. I mean, I get what it is to be addicted, but being benzoed beyond just warding off panic and high anxiety doesn't do it for me . Don't like it. Just makes me annoyingly sleepy.

ScreamP, etal, how goes it? Scream, you're about to quit smoking too. I'm in the same boat. I signed up for a class thing in my city where you go for free once a week for 13 weeks and they give you free nicotine replacement. I signed on for that when my gf was worrying about me dying and so forth. And that was when I was clean too, so now I'm facing quitting cigs right around the time I'll be hitting whatever PAWS symptoms come my way.

And my emotions are just visiting me at their own will. I feel defeated in a good way, like surrender is the answer. Just surrender to life. Live life on life's terms. Just do that, simple, right? Just do that and I can one day be free and clean. I've been trying to get free and clean for a long fucking time now. I'm not giving up. I was hopeless for a long time, but now I have hope. For me, that's a miracle. As long as we have hope, we have the whole universe.

I love you all. Happy New Year, and may this one be the year we get where we wanna be. Free. Happy, joyous and free.

pnm
 
Hey again. +32 hrs now without kratom and I'm awake in the middle of the night. almost 4a.m. here. Woke up with restless legs. Good thing I don't have any booze. I took my 30mg temazepam that's for sleep supposedly earlier in the evening last night. Then took a 10mg zolpidem (ambiem) along with a 40 of budweiser before bed, thinking that would konk me til 9 when I need to get up. Nope. Kept me asleep for 2 hours. I have some extras from a prescription of a wrong dosage and from switching from zolpidem to temazepam. So, I just took a 15mg temazepam and a little more than half of a 10mg zolpidem. We'll see if I just am awake and kinda loopy or if I get sleepy enough to go back to bed. Weird thing is, I have an appetite, which wasn't there AT ALL on previous kratom quits. So, I'm gonna let these extra benzos work their stuff for a minute, eat something little, and see if I can sleep some more before 9.

Most people say successive quits, like repeated WDs and such, make the process worse. This is not worse. So if anyone reading this is facing a second or third kratom quit, lemme tell ya, it may in fact get easier with kratom. Or it may be too that the extra benzos are good to have. If you can get some benzos and don't normally take them, try just using them ONLY for the first week or so. I'm going back to my normal dosage within 4 or 5 days. I certainly don't want a benzo habit to get out of hand. I don't even like them!

Peace,
podsnomo
 
Most people say successive quits, like repeated WDs and such, make the process worse. This is not worse. So if anyone reading this is facing a second or third kratom quit, lemme tell ya, it may in fact get easier with kratom
No, thats the great thing with kratom. The WD's get slightly easier after many relapses. I think thats because kratom is natural while most other opiates are synthetic and made in factories
 
HI EVERYBODY! (Dr. Nick voice from the Simpsons)

Hey Pods No Mo! We are in exactly the same boat. I quit on New Years Day too, and still standing strong! You ask WHY you went back to the kratom? Because you (we) are addicts. I truly don't think our brains work like normal peeps. It's like, for whatever reason, we think we "need" something to feel better. For me, it's blocking out painful memories of life, and also quelling this kind of social anxiety I have. On kratom, or painkillers, I am Party Girl Extraordinaire of my friends. I seriously considered becoming a party planner or club promoter. I plan gatherings and get people from all walks of life together and make sure everybody is happy and having a great time. I am Miss Popular. I always make sure I look great even if it takes me hours to get ready. No one EVER knew I was on anything. They were like, but you're so happy and fun!...But off? I just want to stay home and I don't even want to answer my phone. I just cry my eyes out. Then again, that could be the good old PAWS, or really even still in detox mode. Or perhaps I am depressed. Who knows, it's weird. And yes you must definitely do it for YOU. Even the quitting smoking thing. Because if you quit for anybody besides yourself, you will still have that feeling of being deprived, although you know deep down it's a good thing you're doing. And that'll lead you back (that's my experience anyway).

Oh man, kicking at work, I knew that one well. I used to always kick at work since I worked a 9-5 Mon-Fri, it was inevitable for a painkiller addict like me. The worst was when I chose a Monday to stop taking roxies. I was constantly in the bathroom, sneezing my head off, eyes running, wanting to punch the next person who asked anything of me (and I was a "support person", that was my job, lol, how dare them). That lasted that day and I ran straight to my ex's house after work for more pills. Roxies and oxies are freaking AWFUL. I had a heavy hydrocodone/norco habit and ran out of pills before refill time, so my ex's girlfriend (which sadly she OD'ed and died like right after that) gave me some. I took a quarter of one and was so messed up I wondered if I was driving on the right side of the highway. Then the next day, I had to take 4 to just feel good, not messed up at all. Within days I was utterly, horribly hooked. Next time you hear a story about some person who shoots 40 roxies in their arm per day and you're like WTF?, just know it's really easy to get that hooked within 1-2 months (I kid you not). I am so thankful I never got that far into it. Anyway, I am super grateful I am not working or in school this week. Then again, it can sometimes be a good distraction, to keep your mind off things. So how goes it?

When I was in detox, they told me that benzos make you hungry. Maybe it's true, who knows. My appetite's been good. In fact, I'm eating way more than normal now. Maybe it's a distraction. I'm eating semi-healthy stuff, chicken noodle soup, lots of fruit, cereal, and of course ice cream :)

It's really bizarre, but for me too, this time has been nowhere near as bad as the other times. It's still not fun, but it's not bad. Unfortunately I don't have insurance so I couldn't get any meds to help me. That may be a good thing. Ooh, I just remembered, I have one muscle relaxer left over from a back issue. Perhaps I will take it tonight.

My sleep's been pretty crappy, but nowhere near the other times, and certainly not as bad as kicking painkillers. I have always been lucky in regards to the RLS thing, never got it, even with mega "real painkiller" quits. Anyways, I've been going to bed about 1 or 2 AM after taking Benadryl, Tylenol PM, and other natural sleep aids. Melatonin never works for me, but I have valerian root and also some other combo sleep aid with skullcap, kava, some other stuff, and also sleepy vanilla tea. I know that's a bit excessive, but I gotta do what works for me. For some odd reason I always wake up at 5 or 6 am. I pop another Benadryl, then get maybe another hour of sleep. I'm tired, but it's nowhere near the 2-3 hours I normally get when quitting.

I've been having some sweats and chills, but it was actually worse when I was cutting down as opposed to now that I've completely stopped. So strange. I have some sneezing, runny eyes and nose, and tiredness, but nothing that awful. On day 2 I sold something on eBay and packaged it up, took it to the post office, and sang along with the radio and SMILED. That's NEVER happened on day 2.

I keep wondering myself why it hasn't been that bad for me this time. There are so many factors at play here.

For one, I REALLY wanted to quit. Not because I ran out, not because I couldn't afford it, not because people wanted me to, I did. I am keeping busy even if I am not doing anything crazy. I am keeping my thoughts on pleasant things. I've been reading these books that I really love, I've devoured 2 books in 3 days, and they're not like the horrible addiction and crazy books I normally read, they're just pleasant. They restore my faith in humanity (although they take place in Africa, perhaps I am travelling without getting on a plane :). I've been listening to a lot of music on my headphones on Pandora on my phone. If it's depressing or brings back bad memories, I skip it. I've even been singing along (sorry neighbors). I spent 45 minutes today doing my make-up, just to feel good and have something to concentrate on. Guys, maybe you can trim your 'stache, or whatever it is guys do to work on themselves. lol. I've been hanging with my ferrets. Just watching them act like psychos brings a smile to my face. Oh, and I absolutely LOVE Mystery Science Theater. There's tons of hilarious videos on youtube. I'm sure everyone can find something they like on there. I don't watch TV, so this is what I got. You could also watch your favorite comedy movie.

So besides the stuff I'm taking for sleep, I'm taking my cleanse for the smoking stuff. I am still smoking, but smoking less. I know smoking is bad, but I'm not worried about it right now. Tackling this is important. When I was on kratom, all the cleanse stuff made me sooo sleepy :|. Since I am no longer, it seems to just help me be calm and that's it. I stopped having coffee, because I read it can make detox anxiety and jitters worse, and that's normally my worst symptom. I do allow myself a cup of tea. I did cave and get a small iced coffee from Dunkin Donuts today, and I did notice I felt a bit more agitated than usual. I'm drinking a bunch of water, I'm peeing constantly. Once a day, I put a tbsp of apple cider vinegar in the water, that aids in detox. I'm taking 4 loperamide tablets (Immodium) at a time every other day, although I haven't had the dreadful diarrhea. But I read somewhere that it is considered an opiate and can help. It does constipate ya though, which is why I'm not taking it daily. I do need to go eventually, lol. I take Advil for the aches and pains, and maybe just to "feel" like I'm taking a painkiller. Oh, and I've been taking multi-vitamins and fish oil, I heard that helps. And what I REALLY think it helping me above all (besides wanting to quit and staying positive)-EPSOM SALT BATHS! All of the dozens of times I quit, I never did this, although I did soak and take tons of hot showers, which made me feel human for about a half hour. There are some AMAZING things that epsom salts can do for the body. It can get magnesium into the body, which is generally lacking after taking any kind of opiate. The magnesium helps produce seratonin, which is crucial for mood. It lowers adrenaline and blood pressure (and anytime I stopped kratom or other painkillers my blood pressure was INSANE, I couldn't stop my pounding heart, none of that this time). It also gets rid of toxins in the body. I even made an exfoliant with it by mixing my face wash in it. I rub it on my face and feet. When I first get out of the soak and shower I actually feel worse for about 10 minutes, lots of sneezing and eyes running and hot and cold flashes. But within a half-hour I'm good as gold, feeling like a normal human. And it actually lasts for a few hours. Google "health benefits of epsom salts, there's way more benefits than I've mentioned.

Of course, the thought is still there. When I'm shivering or whatever I think, I think to myself, "I could go get more and make this stop". Then I tell myself, "Yep, I could, but I'm not. 2013 is my opiate-free year!" And then that's it. There are other thoughts too, like since this is fairly easy, I could go ahead and start again since stopping is no bigee. But I've made a commitment to myself.

Sheesh, sorry for the super long sermon. Can I get an amen?! Seriously, I'm just feeling so relieved this isn't too awful and I am so glad and thankful. Everyone can do this if they so choose, just do your research, and find what works for you. YOU CAN DO IT! (Rob Schneider voice) OK, I am way too hyper, have a lovely night all :!
 
Hiya Scream etal.!

Scream, yo, I tried to pm you but your inbox is full. Clean it out, or post a bunch til you got 50 and get a bigger mailbox. :)

K, so, well wait, first, Scream, I enjoyed the long read. It's inspiring to hear you doing so well and enjoying life some and singing and doing a lot of stuff to help you through, like the baths and all the supplements. I too am on day 5 now. But I've not really done much aside from eat food, drink water, and take immodium (loperamide) to ward off the shiets and reduce some of the WD symptoms.

But it's Saturday now, I got off work early, and I'm sitting here entertaining the idea of going to get some kratom. Oy oy oy. I think I should go to a meeting instead. I know that if I buy a bag of kratom, it'll be there after my first dose, and even though I'd tell myself that one dose for now, that's it, and then maybe next week I could get another 4 grams or so out of the bag. Well, I'd tell myself that, but FML, I know it wouldn't go that way. I've been down that road before. Bunch of times.

I'm an alcoholic. Yay me! Addict too. Yee-fuckin-haw! I think if I'd only ever been a drinker it would be easier. I don't have a problem staying away from booze and beer unless my WDs are VERY bad and I'm just dying for something, ANYTHING to knock me out at night. But lately it's not been too bad. My sleep is fucked up. I get less, but feel not too tired. But now I twitch in my sleep, so I can't sleep with my gf. That was part of the reason I relapsed on kratom in the first place. Periodic limb movement disorder is what I think I have. Anyway, that started after I quit kratom the first time. Then I got some, just to microdose, ya know, use enough to keep from twitching at night but not enough to get hooked again. Yeah, worked like a freakin charm. not. So, there I was for a good month or 2, no twitching at night, but hooked again. Wasn't planning on quitting NY's Day either, just woke up and had had enough. But now I'm thinking about it again. ARARAGGHGHG!

It's chewing on my brain. It's like, I just wanna get some kratom, toss and wash it down, sit back, put on some music, play chess online, watch some TV shows, and, ya know how it goes. My mind tells me whatever it thinks it needs to tell me in order to try to get me to go do what it thinks it wants me to do.

I'm just gonna put all that on hold for a damn minute. MY gf is calling. Good timing for a distraction....

More later,
peace and love to all,
pnm
 
Podsnomo, I just cleaned it out. Stupid 50 post rules. It'll take me a year to get there. You know you don't really wanna do it deep down. What you're going through is just a temporary phase. It will pass. It may take time. Imagine the next time you and the lady "watch a movie"- you know it'll be great without that delayed crap! lol I do think you should go to a meeting, or at least talk to a friend who truly understands. Or just vent here, whatever it takes.

I wish I could feel as positive towards myself & my life. It's Day 5, and I just seemed to have gotten worse than when I first quit. I wish I could go back to feeling great like I did a couple days ago :(

I don't know what quite happened. I had a horrible day yesterday, maybe that's why. Lots o' drama over school stuff, classes start Mon, couldn't figure out what to take for 4th class since "requirements" from my community college, the info from the university I want to transfer to, advisors at my school, etc. all say different things. I ended up going to the uni and wandering around the campus with a freaking map in 80-degree muggy weather. So I was sweating a ton, but then when I got inside the freezing AC made me shiver. I wasted hours there, only for them to tell me "we can't help you", GRR! I was so mad. I only took a Benadryl last night to help me sleep, and don't think I had any all day yesterday. So I tried going to bed around 12, was def up to 1 or later, woke up a few times, and my last time was 6 AM. Alarm was set for 8. Couldn't go back to bed. Called out of work and went to my school which was annoying too, I was sweating a ton, then I went outside and it was raining and in the 60s and of course stupid me forgot the umbrella so I was shivering/sweating. Ugh. Plus last night I started getting very sharp pains "down there" (I have an annoying medical condition which is one of the things that caused me to start abusing painkillers in the first place practically a decade ago) and also today. I pray I do not have my condition which will cause me to get major surgery, get admitted to the hospital for 4 days, take major painkillers, etc.

YAY... :(

Well, I'm not giving in. At least not today. I like not having irritation on my face and chest and feeling itchy, and feeling all dehydrated. I like how my eyes look. Human-like, not all pinned. One day at a time..
 
Scream, do you have unresolved childhood issues regarding physical/sexual abuse?! I hate to ask a personal question like that, but maybe thats where the problem lies.

And if thats the case, there is a way out
 
That's kinda weird you'd ask that. But yeah, I have been through pretty much everything a person could go through (well, in the US anyway). I have went to counseling for years, group therapy, etc. I'm still on my journey. The good in it is that I want to help others like me, which is why I am going to school for what I am going to school for. And I'm not going to get anywhere if I keep masking the pain with any substance.

Oh, and my "medical issues" have nothing to do with that. For some reason I get reoccurring abscesses. No specialist can tell me why. Just in case you were wondering. :)
 
Holy fuck, I didn't know Kratom addiction was that bad. I usually used to buy it for my mom to keep her off opiates, not after reading this thread. I feel for you guys, good luck :(
 
Scream, yall, whoever.

I did it. Went and got 30g. Took 2 doses last night. One today.

I know how you feel scream. When I quit I feel lots better for a few days. Then that wears off and I want to use again. Thing is, I've been trying to not to drink or use while not working a program. That's a recipe for misery. That's what I got.

I'm a people pleaser too. Always putting others ahead of me, esp my gf. And it seems we're codependent, and I think she's more dependent than I am. Today though, tipping point. I was doing everything I could to make our plans go well without her getting grumpy and upset. I planned to miss my AA meeting so we could see a movie, and wa ready to come over to her house at a moment's notice to fix breakfast like I said I would. But then she sent her text to my email instead of my phone, and 15 minutes later she's calling me all grumpy and upset. So we just talked. And I just told her that what I have to do is to call my sponsor, go to my meeting, and take care of myself. She recognizes that there's a problem. That me always doing more for her than her for me, and her expecting me to go along with whatever is going to make her happy is bad for us. She even said she feels like she relies on me for everything. She kinda does. OY! So I knew I just had to go. I left while she was crying. Broke my heart, but she couldn't tell me anything or say anything. She was the one crying, but I can't imagine how she could have felt more miserable than I did.

I called my sponsor. Told him the truth, the short version he had time for. I'm going to a meeting later. I'm going to flush the rest of that bag, and in order to be sober and happy, I'm going to have to go back to working my program, and maybe twice as hard as before. For me, putting things, anything, ahead of sobriety is a recipe for disaster. Because if I lose my sobriety and relapse all the way, I won't have ANYTHING left.

All the guys (and gals) in AA/NA who have long-term sobriety and are actually happy say some version of this: "It took everything it took for me to get where I am today." Some of them got clean and sober and stayed that way the first time. Some of them years in and out of programs and sobriety. And everywhere in between. But they all say that. I think I'm figuring out what they mean. I'm fucking stubborn, or more accurately, this disease is fucking stubborn. If it weren't for this, I'd be nearly golden.

I gotta dive back in to AA. I know it's not for everybody, but for me, it's the only thing that works. And if it's the only thing that works, then that's what I just have to do.

Here I go.

peace,
pnm
 
majicBLUE- The kratom addiction depends on the person. Just like some people can have 1 drink and are fine, and others don't stop until they black out. If your mom's using it for opiate withdrawals, it can help temporarily. Some people can use it for months and months and not get addicted, others can't. So it just depends on if she's an addict. I am an opiate addict, so anything opiate-like I put in my body, I just can't stop. Some people can take painkillers for surgery then stop once they're not in pain. I can't. And some people are fine with the idea of taking a substance daily. I'm just not.

Pods- That sucks, but I'm glad you're still trying instead of giving up and dragging it on for months. And absolutely, your recovery needs to be #1. Your gf must understand that, and know that in order for you to be well, you need to take care of you. Once you're well you can have more to give to her, but it takes time. That's just the way it goes. I take it she's not an addict?

And me, well I'm still dealing with the crap. Day 6 and I'm still sweating/having chills. Did get 6 hrs of sleep last night, which I am truly grateful for. And only took 2 Benadryls. Still pretty depressed. Money situations are no good, I have no money yet have tons of bills. Need to pay $300 by tomorrow for my classes or else they get dropped. No clue where $ for books is gonna come from. I start classes tomorrow. I think my phone and internet is gonna get shut off soon, so if you don't hear from me, that's why. The bf (doesn't live with me) has been out of work for months and now his car is screwing up. No bueno. But I'm hanging in there. One day @ a time..
 
^^I second what Scream said, Majic. It can be useful for getting off opiates, but only when used when it is absolutely needed and then tapered. One week tops to be safe. It can turn into it's own addiction. And while people are mostly right when they say kratom isn't as bad as "real opiates", it can, as witnessed by many here, become its own demon.

My chills and sweats will come back tomorrow, on a Monday. Again. Ah well. Life is life.

And yeah, Scream, my gf is one of the earth people. She's never even been hooked on cigs or coffee or ANYTHING. She's completely clueless. Her dad's an alky too, but unlike me, he's in denial. So, this is driving her nuts also. Literally nuts. She needs to call her al-anon sponsor and get cracking on her program almost as much as I do in AA. But I can't say to her the one piece of advice that, if followed, would be the best for her. When she's mad at me, which is often because even if it's something else entirely that upsets her, she gets mad at me. Anyway, when she's upset if I were to say, "Call your sponsor, go to a meeting, and work your program," that would just make her madder AND less likely to actually do it. Plus, who am I to talk? Tonight will be my first meeting in over a month, I'm stalled just after step 5, and I took kratom earlier today. But she doesn't know. Last time I told her. That went badly, not just for me, for her. I'm not doing that to her again. I was taking my sponsor's relationship advice, but his track record in relationships is shit, so if he proffers any more advice regarding my gf, I'm just gonna ask him if that's in the Big Book (the AA book). If it's not part of the program, I'm not telling her. At least not now. The only part of the whole deal that matters in the end she already knows, which is that I haven't been working my program and it's making me nuts again. Knowledge of my use would just make a bad situation worse. It would be different if she were working her program or if she had some history of addiction. But she's such a totally addiction-clueless earth person it's not even funny.

Hang in there Scream. It gets better. What are you doing to cope for now and for long term? I could give you some ideas/advice, and it'd be advice I need to follow too.

Peace.
 
Yo NoMo! I really think tomorrow won't be so bad for you. When I took real opiates for months, stopped for a week, then gave in for another week then quit again, my withdrawals were very, very minimal. Keep us posted.

Wow, do people like that even exist? No coffee even? Wow! My dad was an alcoholic for many, many years. He quit 4 years ago, but never got counseling for it or went to AA. So I call him a "dry drunk". He's just an old school guy, they don't believe they need help. Thankfully, he lives in another state and has a wife to care for him so I don't have to. He now has encephalopothy (I'm sure I'm spelling wrong), on permanent disability, can't drive, etc. Anyway, he affected me. But I don't let it affect me nowadays as much. I got a lot of insight through counseling. But she has to recognize it's affecting her and want to do anything herself. I think I'm gonna PM ya if the system will allow me to do so..
 
man alive gurl ... if kratom made me feel that fuckin good, I'd always have a cup of tea with me!
 
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