DerealizationSucks
Greenlighter
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 1
I'm posting this question because I have found myself somewhat entrenched in a suboxone, kratom based detox strategy. Profound panic attacks, among other things have set me to researching around the forums, but I haven't really found any good answers to the few unresolved questions I have. I'm going to ask my questions first and then give the relevant story, since its somewhat long, but I would appreciate ppl reading the rest. I think my questions are definitely flirting with the usefully unknown and also increasingly relevant as more and more ppl are using suboxone or kratom to detox.
1) I'm mostly seeking peoples experiences avoiding suboxone dependence. I realize things vary a lot with this drug in particular due to biochemistry and dosage, which is why I'm asking for experiences rather than theories. In your experience how much off time is required to avoid suboxone dependence? Once a week? Twice a week? There has to be a decent number of people out there who have experimented with this. But so far there isn't much in the way of consolidated info.
2) Anyone messed around with mixing kratom and suboxone, particularly as a part of a detox strategy? Any useful information, experiences you discovered? I already know that u CAN mix them, that answer is easily found on google so plz skip that info. I'm finding that they have very odd interaction. For instance the kratom placed my initial sub tolerance sky high as I mention below.
3) Any experiences/ information regarding panic attacks precipitated by the combo. I see a lot of info that Subs cause panic attacks, but I have often wondered if its really just the underlying wd's from the original medication?
A couple weeks ago I actually got suboxone to try to substitute and alternate my way off kratom. Please skip the flaming about kratom, if you are feeling tempted - it isn't the point. I found kratom wd's at 40+grms a day to be very very easy, however, I was getting very severe RLS for some reason and would go days and days with out sleep, and I just can't afford to see that process through because of various critical responsibilities. Actually, I had RLS a lot as a kid and this sensation is way different and way worse. Definitely some correlation though. So I started searching for some kind of assistance. Suboxone has been very helpful. I instantly dropped from 40+ to about 17/day and maintained for 2 weeks by taking suboxone every other to every few days with no symptoms at all. Now I haven't had suboxone for 4.5 days and feel fine at 20 grms of kratom. I found I was tolerant/needed a high dose to stop the RLS like sensation. One day I took 3.5 8mg strips. Other days I would take 1.5to2. I would feel a moderate high from this with no nausea or draw backs. I found this very interesting since I see many stories of people who are using it to detox from oxy', heroin, and the like, and their tolerance sets them up with anywhere from 4 to 16 mg's and they are fine. However, I have noticed this about Kratom. I once took a sizeable doses of morphine, vicodin, and tramadols - all for sports injuries- and felt nothing bc of the influence of kratom. I'd be interested to know if that was because of a cross tolerance or kratom blocking the other opiates/opiods via mu competition?
So everything is going very well except for one thing - the panic attacks. Kratom withdrawl and suboxone use are both known to cause panic attacks so I'm kind of setting myself up for a double whammy. If it wasn't for the panic attacks I would have used the subs more and probably be almost off both substances by now. The PA's were incredible. I had PA's when I was younger because of some parental stuff. They were bad but even as a kid I could deal with them fine. These are a whole other thing. The derealization and the fear of going insane were the worst parts. The impact was increased because when they first started happening I didn't know the cause, so I was terrified I had somehow broken my mind with drug use and I was beginning some kind of slip into permanent mental break down.
Anyhow I have discovered both substances are incredible for detoxing. The kratom alone is quite capable of making wd's easy. What I have learned from both experiences so far, and from lots of reading around the net, is that the key to both strategies is speed. Kratom addiction takes a couple of weeks so if u discontinue after say the first week of opiate detox you won't end up with a secondary addiction. The best practice for subs seems the same. However, I believe there may be incredible potential in using both if the process could be understood better.
1) I'm mostly seeking peoples experiences avoiding suboxone dependence. I realize things vary a lot with this drug in particular due to biochemistry and dosage, which is why I'm asking for experiences rather than theories. In your experience how much off time is required to avoid suboxone dependence? Once a week? Twice a week? There has to be a decent number of people out there who have experimented with this. But so far there isn't much in the way of consolidated info.
2) Anyone messed around with mixing kratom and suboxone, particularly as a part of a detox strategy? Any useful information, experiences you discovered? I already know that u CAN mix them, that answer is easily found on google so plz skip that info. I'm finding that they have very odd interaction. For instance the kratom placed my initial sub tolerance sky high as I mention below.
3) Any experiences/ information regarding panic attacks precipitated by the combo. I see a lot of info that Subs cause panic attacks, but I have often wondered if its really just the underlying wd's from the original medication?
A couple weeks ago I actually got suboxone to try to substitute and alternate my way off kratom. Please skip the flaming about kratom, if you are feeling tempted - it isn't the point. I found kratom wd's at 40+grms a day to be very very easy, however, I was getting very severe RLS for some reason and would go days and days with out sleep, and I just can't afford to see that process through because of various critical responsibilities. Actually, I had RLS a lot as a kid and this sensation is way different and way worse. Definitely some correlation though. So I started searching for some kind of assistance. Suboxone has been very helpful. I instantly dropped from 40+ to about 17/day and maintained for 2 weeks by taking suboxone every other to every few days with no symptoms at all. Now I haven't had suboxone for 4.5 days and feel fine at 20 grms of kratom. I found I was tolerant/needed a high dose to stop the RLS like sensation. One day I took 3.5 8mg strips. Other days I would take 1.5to2. I would feel a moderate high from this with no nausea or draw backs. I found this very interesting since I see many stories of people who are using it to detox from oxy', heroin, and the like, and their tolerance sets them up with anywhere from 4 to 16 mg's and they are fine. However, I have noticed this about Kratom. I once took a sizeable doses of morphine, vicodin, and tramadols - all for sports injuries- and felt nothing bc of the influence of kratom. I'd be interested to know if that was because of a cross tolerance or kratom blocking the other opiates/opiods via mu competition?
So everything is going very well except for one thing - the panic attacks. Kratom withdrawl and suboxone use are both known to cause panic attacks so I'm kind of setting myself up for a double whammy. If it wasn't for the panic attacks I would have used the subs more and probably be almost off both substances by now. The PA's were incredible. I had PA's when I was younger because of some parental stuff. They were bad but even as a kid I could deal with them fine. These are a whole other thing. The derealization and the fear of going insane were the worst parts. The impact was increased because when they first started happening I didn't know the cause, so I was terrified I had somehow broken my mind with drug use and I was beginning some kind of slip into permanent mental break down.
Anyhow I have discovered both substances are incredible for detoxing. The kratom alone is quite capable of making wd's easy. What I have learned from both experiences so far, and from lots of reading around the net, is that the key to both strategies is speed. Kratom addiction takes a couple of weeks so if u discontinue after say the first week of opiate detox you won't end up with a secondary addiction. The best practice for subs seems the same. However, I believe there may be incredible potential in using both if the process could be understood better.
