Kids on LSD burn down church - Brown County, Indiana

"Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule."

- Nietzsche

To be fair I knew a guy who burned someones house down on purpose whilst tripping on acid. I'm pretty sure this quote applies to him as well.
 
I still can't understand how someone who has MDMA in their system could want to go do something destructive and violent....maybe it's just me but when I am rolling or candyflipping I don't have anything but good thoughts going on. Now alcohol or something I could understand people doing dumb shit like this a little more.

And what's with all the hating on Christians. Isn't this the same group that talks all of that PLUR shit? Idk but IMO people hate way too much and too often.
 
Sounds more like something someone would do while intoxicated on alcohol.

"It was the LSD! It is not our fault!"
 
i meant there was something deeper as in society deludes itself and is in a moral panic over drugs. society isn't just angry at hooligans on drugs, it's a battle against pleasure amongst other interpretations (depending on person, culture, context)i understand that religion has positives. i believe that sociologically/historically the ultimate source of religion is the psychedelic experience (1000s years ago). i'm way out there with mckenna there. we still keep holidays (social behavioral patterns) going from our experiences with certain "entities" etc, things make sense from that perspective imo. due to the many testimonies, i'm sure religion has helped many to be happy as well. religion is just like any other delusion / false hope that can keep you happy, and should be treated as such

but i completely understand the negative attitude toward religion, and it's quite warranted. for example, you can't expect someone to grow up in an excessively religious culture, become severely damaged by one's internal struggles all relating to things that make absolutely no sense (religion IMO was partly a way to come up with words for concepts we had no words for yet, no "physical" or "scientific" words for), be unable to ever be happy and experience trauma to an abnormal extent, for that sort of person to simply accept the way religion is and has been

i'm not even going to go into the extent of suffering caused by religion as a "meme virus", directly or indirectly, over history... everyone knows about things like religious wars, the social systems when religion was our guiding force, the social beliefs that can logically stem from religious thinking, killing infidels, etc. individually living in central midwest, i know too many people who have torn themselves apart over religion itself and went through as much distress as i see/feel in, for example, withdrawal (chronically... as norm)

so, when i see a burnt down church, i see something possibly more than just hooligans. and that sort of message should be taken seriously, because religion is that serious. i'd prefer to see a burnt church than a built one, even if it symbolizes positive things for many people

still, "if i was king" i'd reimburse this church

there are better ways to increase awareness

in the end, religion basically looks like child abuse to me. it doesn't look healthy for us psychologically. particularly its sexual repression but much more if we want an intellectual debate about it. so i'm always for expanding awareness about this... even if the message is negative, sometimes society does some pretty negative shit and its source needs to be addressed

p.s. i'm being anti religion doesn't mean i can't appreciate and understand ICP's "miracles" :p and i understand religion has been a medium of artistic expression etc, and there's plenty of positives. but if it continues, its negatives will continue. we can admire it as a part of our history if we get past the "social opium addiction"
we aren't putting christians in jail. it's quite different

uhm, honestly no. It's not warranted. It's specific people, things, etc, that caused these. just like its specific drug users who give us a bad name. I'm sure on some other forum somewhere theres some christian's arguing that the drug users aren't all bad but its warranted that they're 100% always looked down on (ok probably not but same princible). Read the bible, about how bad all these churches will be in 'end times'.
 
i don't look down on religious people

but, yes. it is religion itself that needs to go (not that that would solve all our issues; just a good amount of them, and it'd be a huge step forward as a species). while religion has its positives, the type of thinking associated with religious thought (EG the absolutes, EG the i'm 100% definitely right and everyone else is wrong, EG causing guilt for sex and pleasure, EG the connection to social mores/memes eg the correlation between religion and sociological phenomena like racism) do make it dangerous for society. of course not every religious person has each of those problems related to religion, but the style of thinking that goes along with religion should be disconcerting, the way rationality is simply thrown out the window and distrust of science and magical thinking

while it's simply belief, it's hardcore belief and people are suicide bombing over it. what happens when all it takes to end humanity is a loose lethal virus and a misguided individual with access who wants the end times to finally come and feels like he may be acting as an instrument of god?

i realize other things besides religion can have all these negatives too. and it's not the "people" that are the problem, it's a cultural phenomenon... people are the victims (of their own creation, like so many other things that damage us as a society); the "people" are caught up in a societal behavioral pattern we call religion. this behavioral pattern enhances and creates cycles of guilt, violence, etc. and it has no connection to what it evolved from (most likely vagina and mushroom worship as hunter-gatherers)

religion feels like it is warranted to attack entire groups of people, and do so much more that causes suffering, in the name of whatever particular god blesses that particular nation/locality. when the churches were in charge, society was *even less* fair materially, and that's saying something about how bad people had it. it is sitll literally damaging our species. so why is it not warranted to hope for the end of religion?
 
But some of the attitudes people on BL got towards christianity are really ironic, becuz the intense hate for any and all religion but ESPECIALLY, specifically christianity, is so strong that its just as bad as the fear and hate of religious extremist who caused the things that been done in the name of religion over time. when you are like "yea! good, the chucch got burned! fuck christianity, its evil!" that aint no different than some bigoted-ass christian bein like "thank god those druggie scum bags got arrested!" when they hear about a drug bust in the news or somethin like that.

i think we all understand that some shitty things been done in the name of religion over time that aint nothing new. but some people got just such a severe, extreme burning hate of christians and it just seems a lil off to me becuz that kind of hate is the type of shit that they claim to hate about these religious folks, so whose better?

I'm with you there, 100%.


Anyways.....this story is pretty stupid--There aint nothing to it. The kids burned down the church, said they were trippin, thought the church was satanic.

No the point is that this was a premeditated arson that some morons blamed on harmless psychedelic drugs. I know you have heard someone say "a few idiots ruined it for everyone" when referring to something harmless and fun, right? These are those idiots, and I thought the world ought to know.

it had alot of potential but that was the lamest write up of a event that i have ever seen in my life.

See what I can do about getting an interview. Thanks for the constructive criticism.
 
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No the point is that this was a premeditated arson that some morons blamed on harmless psychedelic drugs. I know you have heard someone say "a few idiots ruined it for everyone" when referring to something harmless and fun, right? These are those idiots, and I thought the world ought to know.

See what I can do about getting an interview. Thanks for the constructive criticism.

I 100% agree with you that some retard kids blame the event on a drug...and how wrong that is....But I aint sure that the article was really specific in showing that. i didnt get the idea that "these kids had a premediated arson and blamed it on a drug" as the main point...that seemed kind of like a afterthought added in, there wasnt alot of emphasis placed on it. So i guess it was good in the way it didnt sensationalize the shit but it also was kind of bland on the "draw the reader in" tip. And my bad, i didnt realize u are the author of this (that was the idea i got from your comments, right?) thats cool that you posted a piece u did in here. :)

Im sorry for bein harsh but its the way I am and i just say the shit on my mind without really editin myself, but the good side of that is you will get a real point of view from me and not one that is sugar coated or tryin to be nice, etc, so whether or not i might always be the nicest , i always do keep it 100.

and i think part of the reason that i was criticizing it is becuz for a little while i worked at a newspaper and was friends with the editor, so i got some idea of wat makes a good story, u know? he taught me alot about writing for newspapers and the kind of shit that wil make a person want to keep reading so i guess i notice the quality of the article and not just wat its about, more than other ppl might sometimes.

Like i said...Hope u aint take personal offense to the shit i said. but at least u got a real reaction to the article and im glad you didnt take it as a personal thing and get all upset , but instead did appreciate that even tho i mighta said it in not the most pleasant way, i did try to put somethin constructive in there suggesting other things that coulda improved it. I do think that a interview would really add alot to the story and could make it very interesting for the readers, and you could also use that to stress the point of how this was a pre mediated crime and it could show just how dumb the kid is, if you ask the right kind of questions and frame the story the right way, you can make it be about how drugs aint to blame, but let the kid do all the work for you. You can still be the unbiased reporter just writin it how it is, but let the kid do the talking and in your responses and the way you write about it you can make the point, without it seeming like you are biased towards drugs not bein at fault, you feel me?

I got alot of respect for the fact that you didnt get all hurt and mad from my post and was able to see the positive in it, so good looks on that and if you did do a follow up article def. post it here. :)



Anyways...orangescrewpen..Seriously? God damn....i aint sure if you realize just how ignorant sayin shit like that makes u sound....why take away a in animate building that is the home of many programs that help people in the community, that brings joy and happiness to so many folks in the area...its just the building...if you got a problem with the religion, burnin the building that people who believe in it go to, aint really a great way to make the point that you are against intolerance. 8(

And for real...so many churches AINT the way that alot of yall on here make them out to be...there is alot of churches that aint all stuck up, uptight, super strict, anti-sex and drugs, you gonna go to hell if you fart, type of places. there is so many churches these days that is open minded, that accept and completely tolerate homosexuality, that even allow openly gay priests....that dont turn away drug addicts who come lookin for help...who do all kind of community service for people nearby like food pantry, offering shelter to people who need it, they do out reach programs to the folks who is down and out physicaly spiritually or emotionally, who protest the death penalty, who help people who is low income find legal aid to help them in court cases, who help people who cant afford their medical bills get care, and so much more. A church dont necessarily have to be a symbol of some kind of oppressive, evil, intolerant, bigoted, shame and guilt causing type of group. Not all religion, even not all christians are like that. these days there is alot more to it, and there is so many people who might call themself christian in a real general way, that dont believe nothing like the super strict kind of fundamentalist "god will send the fags to hell" type of shit that we all are against.

I understand why anybody would hate a group or idea that caused them to feel shame of their entire self....that makes them think their body is dirty, that sex is dirty, that doing drugs will send them to hell, that questioning things and thinkin for yourself wont lead to nothin but evil, that makes them feel like they are restricted and stuck and all kind of shit. i understand the kind of mental sufferin that a super strict religious raising could bring to a person. It aint that i am saying that plenty of people been pretty much scarred for life by a extremely serious , strict ultra-conservative religious family life growin up.

but you got to realize that christianity as a whole thing, dont mean all that stuff. There is so much negativity but there is also so much more than that. and dismissin the whole thing, is just as bad as the strict fundementalist ones dismissing anybody who dont go to church every sunday, or who listens to any music that aint church hymns, as a devil worshipper.

Burning a chruch aint saying a big fuck you to the evil oppression of extreme ultraconservative religious christian up bringing. all its doing is hurting a community that is most likely made up of people who aint all like that, and takin away a resource tha thelps many of the people who need help and cant get it from nowhere else.

Is making a really shitty, misguided point about religion being bad, worth local families goin with less food on their table cuz the church food pantry burned along with it? is making a statement that anything that is a symbol of the evils that SOME christians have done deserves to be destroyed, worth puttin the local battered mom and the junkie who just got kicked out of his house by his folks out on the street cuz they was staying in the cfhurch basement and now thats gone too?


for real, if you want to make a point there is way better ways to do it. pickin some random ass church that may or may not even BE a community of the super religions christian freaks that yall hate so much, and could have been just a tolerant, loving community of folks who ARE actual "true christians" in the good sense of the word (helping others, practicing forgiveness and loving their neighbor, etc) , and then saying its good that its burned down now, is a horrible way of saying that you believe that some christians are evil and do bad things with their religion.

i think that there is alot of posters on here who grew up in extreme religious house holds and got a deep , understandable bias towards it....that see all the bad, but none of the good....I aint sayin that in the name of religion, and christianity expecialy, there has just been some terrible, shitty, horrible and awful shit done again and again. And I aint no christian, neither so dont think i am apologizin for it or somethin. But im just sayin yo...The hatred that so many of yall clearly got for that religion, is a lil too close to the hate showed by the ones you hate.....:|
 
Is making a really shitty, misguided point about religion being bad, worth local families goin with less food on their table cuz the church food pantry burned along with it?
if churches went, soup kitchens would not go with them. there may be better material wealth disribution in a society less tied to previous social values anyway. there may even be a more empathic system with less emphasis on us vs them if we embrace facts rather than vote based on a 1500 year old moral system book developed by a political institution

like i said, i recognize religion's contributions and positives and how it's been a medium of expression for feelings we have no words for yet. but a maintaining large, collective, complex delusion has consequences, and those consequences can't just be ignored
 
Iunno how many soup kitchens you been to yo, but ALOT of them are actually right inside the church. I can think of at least 2 or 3 in a 20 minute drive from me that got soup kitchens inside the church in the same building. Also tons of churches have thrift stores where people donate un wanted clothing, appliances,baby stuff, etc and they have a lil store setup in the basement...When i was a kid this is how i got all my clothes....If that store had got burned down along with the church that it was inside, i woulda been shit outta luck as a kid.

Also many churches just do out reach work for local families and it aint specifically a food pantry or soup kitchen but they just do "ministry" work I think its called, where they just have families that donate money or food and the church buys a bunch of it and then they bag it up and drop it off to families in need who is members of their church. They store the food, diapers, and other shit that they help take care of, in their basements or their other rooms of the building.

There is also many churches that keep supplies over the course of the year they store up clothing, socks, underwear, shoes, backpacks, blankets, toiletries like toothbrush, shampoo, etc, and all kind of other shit, and they go 2 or 3 times a year and go do a program that is called different things in different churches but one word for it is "the midnight run" ,basically they take all these supplies they gathered up over the last few months and take them into the city in a big ass train of vans and they hand out all free shit to the homeless folks that they come across...

All these things aint rare, or unlikely that a church would be involved. Most churches are involved in this type of shit in some way, and Iunno how it is where you at but here there aint like a shitload of buildings like a church compound or complex or somethin, its just the church. Alllll the stuff that goes on, the soup kitchen, the food pantry/donation stuff, the discount thrift shop goodwill store type operations, and the donations that they have managed to get together for the other programs i talked about, is all stored in the church.

To be real, i would honestly be willing to put money down that in any one single church you could randomly pick anywhere, there will be at least some kind of charity/community service type supplies that is in that church whether its food , clothing, or w/ever, that would also go down with the church if it burned.

Like i said.....You can make the point that you want to make, without these kind of consequences to people who dont deserve them, who aint got nothing to do with the oppression of peoples minds or bodies, etc.

For real, I am a pregnant woman with no income, the churches in the area will most likely be helping me out a good amount once I have this baby. They offer all kind of furniture, high chairs, etc, all kind of baby stuff in good condition that you can get for like 5 dollars....There is classes for mothers, support groups and shit like that...There is child care....There is many things that they offer, and you aint even gotta be a member of the church. (I aint a member of no churches, but they dont care--they just want to help anybody who comes to them needing help.)

I got faith that I will be OK and that me and my man will get by and raise our baby just fine, but if some disaster ever happened, somethin awful and we needed the help, I know that I could go to the soup kitchen nearby and get a good meal, shit I use to do volunteer work there when i was younger for a long time and there wasnt a damn soul in that place helping to run the kitchen that wasnt a sweet, loving and completely caring person. I never saw no evil christians workin in there.

Im just sayin,...it aint some faceless "them" that could possibly potentially get helped by the neighborhood churches.....I am just one example of a person who was not a member of the church even as a kid, but still got so much help from them....Seriously, i wouldntna had no clothes on my back without the one church store nearby our neighborhood....Almost everything in our house at one time was completely secondhand stuff from the church basement store....Backpacks for school, plates, forks, cups, toaster oven, ....Books...And lots of my toys as a kid came from there aswell....

If that church had got hit by some dumb ass knuckleheads like these kids and burned down I dont know wat my family woulda did. Did we, people who were not even members of the church and didnt even go to church, deserve to get hurt as 'collateral damage" in the process of throwing a big middle finger at organized religion? Is that really worth it?

Like damn...Sometimes, the "principle" aint more important than the practical reality. in this situation i just dont understand how u can possibly justify all the families and people that would be hurt and screwed over by somethin like their local church gettin burned down, as somehow all worth it just so you can say ha ha, plus one for the anti-religion-squad! There aint NO other way to make the point that you feel organized religion is evil and harmful and damaging to the human race, except to cause the same kind of damage and pain that the evil religion people have caused over time?

It just dont make no fuckin sense to me. I get the idea, you believe that it is harmful in so many ways and should be stopped. But shit like this really dont do a damn thing to stop it or the spread of it. They will just build another church, but instead of takin the money to help the poor and homless and down and out people in the area, those people will have to go without so they can use the money to build a new building. That really aint accomplishing jack-shit for "team down with religion" and just unnecessarily hurting tons of people who probably werent even christian to begin with.
 
how many of the people recieving goods from these church networks are truly religious? it seems there is a desperately needed network/collective for goods to be shared

i'm just saying that if religion goes, the demand for (and use of) these sort of collectives won't go with it
If that church had got hit by some dumb ass knuckleheads like these kids and burned down I dont know wat my family woulda did. Did we, people who were not even members of the church and didnt even go to church, deserve to get hurt as 'collateral damage" in the process of throwing a big middle finger at organized religion? Is that really worth it?
that's why i'd reimburse this church (as stated in previous post) and charge the perpetrators for the appropriate crimes (if found)

i'm just saying, one can empathize with both sides here
 
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