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Kicking again, not sure if ive messed up with lope?

S

Stuck_x

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
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47
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Somewhere over the rainbow
It's coming up to 48 hours since my last oxy dose & ive just woken up from a 8 hour sleep?! Before managing that, i was staring at the ceiling, RLS in legs, arms & torso, hating life. I took valarian, hops, potassium supplements, hylands resful legs, melatonin & Was feeling awful & though it did feel a teeny bit better after going downstairs & putting TV on, eventually i gave in & had 4mg of lope.

About 4am yesterday (14 hours after last oxy) i took 8mgs lope... Followed by 10mgs about 6 hours later = 18mgs of lope total, which covered about 80% of withdrawal symptoms.

I have kicked a few times before, but usually from subutex. I have been a user for the last 5ish years, most of that time on bupe maintenance of between 0.25-1mg daily. Even i have been smoking(H) ive always done a short bupe taper. This time im kicking oxy so decided to go a different route.

i recently stopped taking my seroquel about a week ago, that wasnt great fun but i had oxy to help me... Im considering giving in and taking that but im worried it will make my RLS worse, if does put me to sleep easily, but in the past ive had a GHB sleep & still thrashed my legs around. Does anyone have any advice on the seroquel?

I have access to sub too, but it seems ill have to wait a long time to take that since messing around with the lope, so im thinking leave that alone this time.

Since losing in r my beautiful baby girl the endof December, i am really stuck between i need to get my life back & i need to get smashed & escape from this shit!

I thought i would leave my journal here for all the lurkers, since ive read through maybe thousands of threads before actually joining. Im hoping ive not screwed up too bad, and my withdrawal journey canhelp someone. Ive never really understood the whole day thing though... Am i on day 2 now since im coming up to 48 hours?

so far this morning, i feel fine really. Some crawling, shivers, watery eyes etc, Not 100% but fine. This is where my issue lies. Surely I cannot be doing anything significant with my withdrawal if i am feeling fine? I really failed trying to taper the oxy and actually ended up eating more and more each day. I think at most i could maybe be considered as tapering withthe lope? Does anyone have an idea of equivalent estimates between lope & oxy... From what i have searched the opioid equivalent charts dont seem to mention it.

thanks in advance

oh, also i am taking supplements:
potassium
magnesium
b6
ginseng
fish oil
& when i can stomach it, liposol vitamin c (awful taste)
 
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You can take loperamide and Suboxone at the same time. There is no precipitated withdrawal or contraindications/interactions between buprenorphine and loperamide when you're kicking (or possibly ever) except the possibility of a little constipation. As you didn't take 100mg of loperamide, this won't be a problem with you because of your body's previous tolerance to opioids in general and the fact your in acute withdrawal.

If you're feeling really bad, take 4-8mg of buprenorphine. If you have a limited supply only take 4mg, and see how you feel. Should resolve a lot of your symptoms after 24-48hrs taking Suboxone, regardless of whether you take 4mg or 8mg. If you want fast relief now and have enough of it, take 8mg and then take 4mg later when you start feeling crappy again, or just after 12-24hrs.

There is not true equivalent dosage to convert oxycodone into loperamide. Loperamide will give you a buzz in the 80-120mg range, and that is regardless of tolerance, but the side effects are rather considerable.

It's not so much the constipation that is problematic but the dehydration, mild insomnia and, of serious issue to people with a history of heart problems, potential harmful effects on the heart. There might be mild constipation, but that's a lot better than pissing out your ass, so it's not such a bad thing in this case.

Depending on your history of opioid use, 4-40mg of loperamide should be more than enough to combat any diarrhea and help at least a little with GI distress. 20-60mg may be needed to combat the GI distress of acute opioid withdrawal, but, again, the more loperamide you take, the more pronounces the side effects become.

Out of everything that you said you're using to help with the withdrawal right now, the loperamide will be the most noticeably significant to helping alleviate the nastiness of acute withdrawal.

The magnesium may be helpful, but how much so depends on your body's particular inherent biochemistry. Get some melatonin to help with sleep, 2-5mg pills.

Also pick up some ibuprofen/Advil, and take 600-800mg every 6-4hrs with a whole glass of water and a little bland food. This will help a bit with the RLS/body aches of withdrawal (if APAP/Tylenol or naproxen/Aleve works well for you use that instead, but don't use ibuprofen, APAP or naproxen at the same time (don't take two different types at the same time I mean)).

I'd also suggest getting your potassium from eating bananas instead of a supplement. Your body needs the nourishment from good healthy food during acute withdrawal to heal itself and work towards reestablishing homeostasis. Bananas have enough potassium to help, so supplementing it is kinda redundant. Two or three bananas for a snack works really well, plus it will help with the GI distress of withdrawal.
 
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I have no direct experience with seroquil or major opiate withdrawal, but do have other withdrawal experience. It seems like you're getting off of two major drugs at one time, and I know psych meds are usually difficult to cold turkey from. Is there are reason you need to stop both right now, or would it possibly be better to do one at a time? With seroquil, everything I have read about it points to doing a slow taper and not stopping that cold turkey. If I were in your position, I think I would quit opiates first, and then taper seroquil as seroquil may help with sleeping etc while going through opiate withdrawal. I understand wanting to quit everything at one time, but sometimes it isn't feasible, and it's not a race. I wanted to quit booze, benzos, antidepressants, and trazodone but found I had to get of stuff in increments...first benzos, then booze, then antidepressants, and now trazodone. It was the only way to keep my sanity in tact. Take your time in getting healthy.
 
x_benzo_girl said:
I have no direct experience with seroquil or major opiate withdrawal, but do have other withdrawal experience. It seems like you're getting off of two major drugs at one time, and I know psych meds are usually difficult to cold turkey from. Is there are reason you need to stop both right now, or would it possibly be better to do one at a time? With seroquil, everything I have read about it points to doing a slow taper and not stopping that cold turkey. If I were in your position, I think I would quit opiates first, and then taper seroquil as seroquil may help with sleeping etc while going through opiate withdrawal. I understand wanting to quit everything at one time, but sometimes it isn't feasible, and it's not a race. I wanted to quit booze, benzos, antidepressants, and trazodone but found I had to get of stuff in increments...first benzos, then booze, then antidepressants, and now trazodone. It was the only way to keep my sanity in tact. Take your time in getting healthy.
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Totally agree. Its best to kick one drug at a time. How much lope are you taking right now?
 
Firstly thank you for everyone for replying, i use bluelight on my phone so please excuse any typos...

TPD - really theres no precipitated withdrawal with sub & loperamide? I kinda figured since i took that following from the oxy i would need to wait longer than the 12-24 hours? I have to say though, with the bupe ive never needed doses as high as that, ive always kind of lingered between 0.5-1mg if im honest. Re: the potassium, i HATE bananas, i have choked them down in withdrawal inthe past, but i find them really awful. I have used melatonin & naproxen, i tend to only take anything when im really suffering.

benzogirl - I decided to do the seroquel first as i was only onit for a short time & everything i have read antipsychotic withdrawal wise sounds kind of scary, i know what to expect with opiates because they've been in my life for a long time. I am not apposed to taking something because i am bipolar, but i dont get on with seroquel, it made me really lazy, gave me really bad migraines amongst other things. I see my psych Tuesday so i will discuss with her then. All of the withdrawal symptoms fromthe seroquel have subsided, i think.

CJ- i have taken a total of 22mg & it is 52 hours since my last oxy.

I have to say i am REALLY surprised how much it is actually holding me, I have some withdrawal symptoms but nothing unmanageable & they are a lot less than I anticipated. I am eating healthily when i do eat & have stocked up on loads of fruit & veg today. Generally i also only drink water, though probably not enough.

I can relate to a lot of people on these boards, one thing i must say though is i have always been a 'managing addict' always had a job, home & friends not in the circles, in fact, my addiction is hidden from 90% of the people inmy life. Even when i go on a crack & H bender, it only usually lasts 6ish weeks before I decide to sort myself out again. The thing I really struggle with is the boredom & lack of motivation when not on opioids. Also, i tend to fall back into drinking and party drugs, which TBH, are worse for me when trying to do 'normal' life things, work, commitments etc.
 
Yup, taking buprenorphone after loperamide will not result in precipitated withdrawal. Maybe if you took 100 or 200mg of loperamide, but I would hope you arent going to do that. If you do, let us know what happens!
 
No absolutely not, to be honest, im kind of paranoid about having even taken the 11 tablets that i have, but desperate times cause desperate measures. OK, i think i may trial a crumb of subutex, maintainance probably wouldn't be a bad idea for me right now. Though if im honest, id really rather sort out my medication for the bipolar & deal with the underlying issues. I have been meditating for the last 2/3 weeks & attending spiritualist centre. I was supposed to go to my first NA meeting yesterday, i was feeling awful though
 
If you have mental illness and addiction issues, maintenance is a really useful option. Keep all your options open at this point, and take it a day at a time. Make sure to be kind and gentle to yourself during this transition into your life of recovery and healing. It might be rough here and there, but it is oh-so-rewarding :)
 
If it were me, I'd do a quick taper just using the lope (I've done maintenance with high doses before and the withdrawals were hell). Taking subs for me turned into a whole other ballgame.
 
High doses just isn't necessary, is what I'm saying. The actual experience of mental illness, combined with the stigma surrounding mental illness in groups like NA/AA and addiction treatment in general, even professional medical treatment centers and doctors that are otherwise top notch at treating addiction, coupled with the lack of good treatment out there for mental illness itself, well, stability is so important in recovery from mental illness that it is high recommended by any good professional. You need to do it right, so it has to be taken seriously, but it can be a real game changer for the best ;)
 
To be honest guys I don't really do high doses of anything, the only thing i get greedy with is dope itself & at a point i just nod out.

I decided to have the bupe, i took about 0.25, so far symptoms are the same. In half an hour or so ill take a crumb more & see how it goes. Its weird, because of the bipolar im either totally irresponsible, or really really cautious.

Toothpastedog is there really stigma regarding mental health in NA circles etc? Id have thought addicts would be some of the most understanding people? Thats always beenmy experience. & you are right, i am my own worst critic, as im sure most are. The main reason for me trying to rush this is to start a family again. Im weary of being on any medication, but i know i have to be well myself, before i can be a good mom

i know the mental health circles stigmatise against addiction however, but apparently its part & parcel of bipolar... I dont know much about it to be honest, it's only recently been a diagnosis for me. I just thought id had a shitty life to date & was 'trying' to cope.
 
Stuck_x said:
Toothpastedog is there really stigma regarding mental health in NA circles etc? Id have thought addicts would be some of the most understanding people? Thats always beenmy experience. & you are right, i am my own worst critic, as im sure most are. The main reason for me trying to rush this is to start a family again. Im weary of being on any medication, but i know i have to be well myself, before i can be a good mom

i know the mental health circles stigmatise against addiction however, but apparently its part & parcel of bipolar... I dont know much about it to be honest, it's only recently been a diagnosis for me. I just thought id had a shitty life to date & was 'trying' to cope.
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Every meeting is different, but yes, within the 12 step community stigma against mental illness runs rampant. There used to be a big movement against taking any psychiatric medication within AA and NA, and it is still very powerful in terms of influence among the fellowships to this day. Which is really very sad, because the stigma really can do some real damage in terms of those who experience symptoms of mental illness and addiction. Trust me, I should know. NA and AA can be so incredibly supportive to recovery in terms of addiction, it's really quite sad.
 
Wow, im really surprised at that. I guess i will find out the extent of it when i go next week, theres no point going anywhere for support & keeping things to yourself.

Update: i did take more bupe, now im at approximately 0.75mg. All symptoms of withdrawal have subsided & my cheeks are feeling flushed & i have an itchy nose. At that amount and feeling like this, im feeling like ive just taken a massive step backwards and that i should have just continued with normal with a rapid lope taper.

just a bit of background for those interested. I was smoking H from 1st January until late February. I done a rapid subutex taper (4mg, 2mg, 1mg, 0.5, 0.25 then skipped days) At the same time i stopped taking my prescribed Ativan (2mg per day) an suffered a horrendous withdrawal, anxiety worse than ever before & including extreme paranoia & hallucinations, which ive never experienced before. I went on holiday just after & in 2 weeks had approximately 0.5-1mg of sub in the entire time. Stupidly, i got home & started taking Oxys(20-80mg for around 4 weeks), the depression was just too much. I must say though, I truly believe the seroquel was making me more depressed. Prior to this run, i have been on sub for around 4 years off & on, more on than off. Though i am a long(ish) term addict, i have only really had a small habit (0.5-1mg bupe or 2-4 bags of H)

im really trying to make this withdrawal my last. In the past i have never put healthy coping strategies in place. This time I have and am
 
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Good luck Stuck_x. The thing about 12-step groups are that some are way better than others. My girlfriend's home group is amazing from what she tells me, although certainly not perfect (I'm not interested in really going there, but that is honestly primarily because I want it to remain her thing, and I don't want to intrude on her recovery, you know?).
 
Thank you toothpastedog. I appreciate your help & support.

yea I totally understand what you mean with your girlfriends group, if she's getting on so well there, you want that to continue too. Do you go to any meetings yourself? I assume you have been from the knowledge you have. If you have a link to any of your experience/recovery posts id love to have a read?

My bestfriends partner has not long completed a detox in a rehab facility after a 10ish year addiction on high amounts of methodone & also a pretty Large H habit he had on top at the end. I asked the other day how/why this time he was successful in his attempt. He told me he had hit rock bottom & was at the risk of losing everything (again) & he'd just had enough. He is attending weekly meetings and really doing well. He achieved an award for 90 days clean & i am SO happy for him... & for her. She truly deserves to be treated like a princess & to not worry about his addiction & the rubbish that comes with it.

Sorry i got a bit side tracked. The point is, if he can do it, I can. & if I can, & go along with him to the meetings etc, we can encourage each other & i think it will keep pushing us both. I think so many peopletry to do this alone & its near impossible. The more support we have, the better. I will be forever grateful to bluelight & its members. Helping so many people over the years.
 
That's the attitude Stuck_x! And you're very welcome, it's my pleasure.

Yes, I have a lot of experienced with 12 step groups, or had a lot of experience with them, as I haven't been to one in like five years (thank god 8)). I don't really know if I have much in the way of experience or recovery posts, but I used to share in OD a lot when I did the buprenorphine thing myself back in like 2013 for a year and a half. You can find old threads and posts of mine by going to my profile on here. They'll be pretty far back in the list, but they should be there. Don't honestly know if they'll be all that interesting though.

I do have a good thread about using DXM to deal with acute heroin withdrawal though, so I'll try and find that.

EDIT: found it: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads...-the-Acute-Stage-of-Heroin-W-D-AND-addiction-!
 
I know from on here DXM is an ingredient in cough syrup? But ive never heard of it except onhere, so im sure if we have it in the UK. You're right though, interesting read.

i think a lot of us consider the actual withdrawal the worst or most difficult part, when in fact, it's staying clean after that's the problem for most.

Update for today: 72 hours from last dose (day 3 i think)
feeling absolutely fine. In fact, I nodded to sleep last night from the 0.75ish mg of subutex i had, so today im really annoyed & wish I would have just continued to do as i was. But hey, no use crying over split milk. Im hoping that crumb of sub takes me through today & tomorrow & the worst of the physical Oxy withdrawal will be done & ill maybe have a few days/nights of withdrawal symptoms from the sub. Will keep you posted
 
Stuck_x said:
I know from on here DXM is an ingredient in cough syrup? But ive never heard of it except onhere, so im sure if we have it in the UK. You're right though, interesting read.

i think a lot of us consider the actual withdrawal the worst or most difficult part, when in fact, it's staying clean after that's the problem for most.

Update for today: 72 hours from last dose (day 3 i think)
feeling absolutely fine. In fact, I nodded to sleep last night from the 0.75ish mg of subutex i had, so today im really annoyed & wish I would have just continued to do as i was. But hey, no use crying over split milk. Im hoping that crumb of sub takes me through today & tomorrow & the worst of the physical Oxy withdrawal will be done & ill maybe have a few days/nights of withdrawal symptoms from the sub. Will keep you posted
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Hey how are you doing? You feeling okay? I know it's a tough battle just hang in there and let everyone know how you are doing. I agree with you how difficult trying to kick on your own is. I failed many, many times. So take care and I hope you are in a good place.
 
Hi there, i was just heading back to give an update. Im doing ok & feeling alright, just not at where i wanted to be by now.

Since my last post i have been taking crumbs of subutex, daily, when withdrawal starts to creep in. Im not sure if it's because im a long term user, but the major symptoms seem to want to stick around. So i have a new plan.

i have an order of kratom due tomorrow & im going to use as little as possible for as short time as possibe, hoping that this will be the final little piece of this puzzle. If anyone has any recommendations on the amount of kratom i should be using that would be great?

i have joined the gym, through myself straight into boot camp my first day... Legs are still killing now lol. I am back there at 2 for some general training, followed by yoga at 3.

im also eating well, meditating & trying to keep a clean sleep process. The vitamins i have just been taking a multi & magnesium.

big spanner in the works maybe? I have been prescribed ablify for my mood disorder. On paper it sounds great, energising but sedation action too. Common side affect: insomnia. Great!! But im armed with melatonin, valarian & passion flower

will keep updating. Thanks guys
 
Kratom is a great tool for combating withdrawals - That's how I got over my IV heroin and U-447700 habit.
I think you will find a lot better once you give some kratom a try - Just don't be on it for too too long because
prolong kratom use can have some withdrawals but not as bad as oxy or heroin withdrawals.

You're doing great. Keep up the good work!
 
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