Kicked out of outpatient

[evilthree]

So I got a call today...I got kicked out of my outpatient program. I came up hot for weed from a piss test yesterday, and I didn't tell them I was prescribed klonopin. Because of this, and my general attitude about all this crap, they decided to "therapeutically discharge" me.

The whole reason I'm concerned is I have a whole bunch of legal issues, and I'm scared the courts will fuck me over now. I have a whole load of drama and bs stemming from a possession charge, which was the main reason I entered treatment in the first place(not court stipulated, but TRYING to do what will keep me out of jail)

I also feel a big reason for this discharge is my philosophy. The main reason I'm trying to stay clean is I don't want this legal bs fucking me over any worse than it has. As a heroin user, I don't consider drinking or smoking weed as use, especially since smoking reduces my cravings. I don't follow the disease model, and I feel like this puts me at odds with the recovery racket, who has a complete monopoly over the field of "addiction" and subsequent legal attitudes towards it

 

[panic in paradise]

sounds like you need to keep those views to yourself in such company.

and this incident doesnt need to be mentioned to the court, your attorney maybe.

alcohol can get just as ugly and worse then opiates in ways, double that combined with benzos, it seems the pair only fuels one another.

if you are offered deferred prosecution, you will have to attend some sort of treatment, meetings, and be running in circles for the first couple of months. you shouldn't have to keep you klonopin from most outpatient facilities, it helps you, and asking you to stop taking it would be too much, they usually dont encourage pressuring yourself quiting cigarettes...

my last drug/alcohol counselor recommended medical marijuana over my ' other' marinol script, but he had cancer and was a real cool realistic guy.


you fucked up, it doesnt really master this time, if it was state mandated, you'd be getting a pounding on your door at 4: 30 am... try and learn from this the things not to do and say next time, just sit there and give the right answers, you will surely learn somethings too.

 

[RedRum OG]

benzos and booze can kill you in WD. thats some serious shit my man, not saying youre addicted like that, but it can be just as serious as dope. and anyone who doesnt use sees all drugs equally bad as heroin, as fucked up as that is cuz weed is a lifesaver to someone whos sick/craving and doesnt wanna use.

 

[EoTorv]

If you have a lawyer for all the pending legal stuff I would call them & keep them informed. They might have some advice about mitigating the effects of washing out in the last program.

Within a program, especially when you are there to help a legal situation- don't rock the boat. Pip has it right "sounds like you need to keep those views to yourself in such company."

 

[Sweet P]

If you're in an outpatient program for drug abuse, of course you're not gonna to be 100% clean, and you may piss dirty. It's stupid that they kicked you out because of that. But since the program wasn't court mandated (unlike mine!), you should be ok. Just make sure the court doesn't find out about it. Oh, and in future, never do a piss test unless you're required to by law. A doctor at my drug and alcohol service recently asked me to provide a urine sample, but I refused, as it wasn't a condition of my probation. My court order only said I have to attend treatment. It didn't say anything about having to stay clean.

 

[artaxerxes]

Yeah, definitely consult your lawyer.

The court is looking for effort, so just try to find another outpatient program that will accept you. I think you just have to get into war mode thinking: you want to win this legal battle, so keep your eyes on the prize and do what you need to do.

With your lawyer, discuss whether going to the methadone clinic would look favorable in the courts' eyes. I'm thinking the 21-day detox route might look good. I don't know what your habit is like so I can't say whether that would work for you, but it's worth considering.

I completely understand where you're coming from about not really being motivated to do it because you don't really agree with the program's views. I don't like the disease model and the philosophy pushed in the "recovery racket" either. I think it's flawed and exerts unwarranted dominance over the system, but that's not the point of this thread so I'll stop there.

But it's either suck it up for a short time or face a longer sentence. It's just something you have to do, like having to hustle $ for your DOC or travel 200 miles out of your way just not to get sick.

 

[panic in paradise]

well, the court orders you to attend, and cooperate fully. refusing the terms of your treatment, are definitely considered violating the terms of your probation.

if your attitude is right, honestly, and you are outwardly determined they know its a struggle, but remember, its hard to bullshit a bullshitter.

 

[evilthree]

I have a habit of being too honest and open, especially in settings when talking to robot people like counselors

I know about benzo and booze WD and how they're hell. I have the klonopin as needed, and take them quite sparingly. I have overwhelming anxiety and panic attacks constantly, and use them to relieve said symptoms, especially since there's no chance in hell of me getting opis or weed(PA doesn't have medical)

I completed a program in an inpatient hospital, as well as a partial program. I actually liked the partial and found it helpful, but my insurance ran out so they gave me the boot. Figures when you want to work a program more they kick you out, huh?

I never had a big habit. Used heroin on and off for a year, got 2 possession charges in that time. This last one really fucked my shit up, as it threw my job in the air, took my phone, and left me broke and nearly homeless. The legal ramifications actually did more damage than any of my using did

I've been clean off dope and anything hard for that matter for almost 1 1/2 months, save one small relapse, which I don't view as anything major, especially since it didn't start up any habits. I tend to not be able to keep drug habits going, I'm not that crafty I guess. It just aggravates me that the law and my family make a bigger issue out of something than I feel needs to be made, especially considering that I was quite functional and happy towards the end of my run, and was seriously considering suboxone maintainence as a way of quitting(now that I have this much time, I have even less support for subs than I did before, which was quite minimal to begin with)

 

[CRITICALMASS]

That's the bone man I'm sorry to hear that. I had the same thing happen to me with going to treatment so that it looked better when I got my sentence but got kicked out of the program because of insurance and hot piss.

If it wasn't court ordered then you don't have anything to worry about just look for another program, I noticed you're from Philly too and I know there are quite a few in the area.

I've been to three or four different programs and only one (the one I talked about before) made me piss so there are some out there. But let me tell you as some one who has a loose tongue and a DGAF attitude towards these programs it's better to just shut up and listen then run you're mouth if you don't want to follow their model.

The only one looking out for you is you (you're lawyer gets paid no matter what happens) so you gotta decide how are YOU gonna beat this?

 

[Sweet P]

well, the court orders you to attend, and cooperate fully. refusing the terms of your treatment, are definitely considered violating the terms of your probation.

It's all in the fine print. If a court order doesn't state that you have to do piss tests or stay clean, then you don't have to. My probation order simply says that I have "to undertake and complete such assessment course, counselling, treatment and training as required by probation officer to deal with cause of offending." No mention of piss tests there. My probation officer doesn't even ask if I've been using - only if I'm still attending treatment.

 

[CRITICALMASS]

It's all in the fine print. If a court order doesn't state that you have to do piss tests or stay clean, then you don't have to. My probation order simply says that I have "to undertake and complete such assessment course, counselling, treatment and training as required by probation officer to deal with cause of offending." No mention of piss tests there. My probation officer doesn't even ask if I've been using - only if I'm still attending treatment.

My PO does the exact same thing!

"Are you still in school? Are you still employed? Have you had any run ins with the police? Have you been attending any treatment?"

I don't even know if she ever verified any of this.

 

[Tommyboy]

You would have to sign a "waiver" or release form at the rehab facility which would allow it to contact your probation or the courts about your progress. If said document was never signed, then you do not have to worry about the courts finding out.

If you are mandated to be in treatment, then find another one asap and cooperate with their rules.

 

[Sweet P]

My PO does the exact same thing!

"Are you still in school? Are you still employed? Have you had any run ins with the police? Have you been attending any treatment?"

I don't even know if she ever verified any of this.

It's funny, I once asked my drug counsellor if probation has ever contacted him about me, and he said no.

Either my probation officer trusts me (which I highly doubt) or he's incredibly slack.

 

[Bojangles69]

So I got a call today...I got kicked out of my outpatient program. I came up hot for weed from a piss test yesterday, and I didn't tell them I was prescribed klonopin. Because of this, and my general attitude about all this crap, they decided to "therapeutically discharge" me.

The whole reason I'm concerned is I have a whole bunch of legal issues, and I'm scared the courts will fuck me over now. I have a whole load of drama and bs stemming from a possession charge, which was the main reason I entered treatment in the first place(not court stipulated, but TRYING to do what will keep me out of jail)

I also feel a big reason for this discharge is my philosophy. The main reason I'm trying to stay clean is I don't want this legal bs fucking me over any worse than it has. As a heroin user, I don't consider drinking or smoking weed as use, especially since smoking reduces my cravings. I don't follow the disease model, and I feel like this puts me at odds with the recovery racket, who has a complete monopoly over the field of "addiction" and subsequent legal attitudes towards it

Its all good to have your own thoughts and beliefs about addiction. But thats like going to church to jerk off, I've never understood it myself personally.

Did you think the test wouldn't know you smoked? Or they'd just give you a slap on the wrist? I def DO NOT make the right decisions all the time, but thats one thing I've never thought twice about.
If I couldn't stop myself from smoking pot I wouldn't be in outpatient or inpatient to begin. I also consider it thoroughly disrespectful, maybe thats why I've never got high in rehab.

But you have overworked counselors with overpopulated caseloads busting their ass to help a bunch of drug addicts out. Going off and getting high is like spitting in their face. I've never had the nuts to do it cause I'd feel like too big a piece of shit.
I don't wanna come off too strong, but this has always been a serious petpeeve of mine. I use to see people coming to rehab joking before group about how high their gonna get when their finished. I've seen people leave NA rooms to go cop. I've seen people get high IN inpatient. I've genuinely wanted to smack them all in the face.
Its one thing to say you don't follow a disease model, its another thing to act like you have that disease by getting high in rehab of all places THEN saying part of the reason you got high is because you don't believe in the model? WTF. YOU ARE THE REASON that model was made. Thats like me shooting carcinogens into my brain because I don't believe in cancer, it makes no sense. If you don't believe in the model, then don't get high.

I shouldn't take this so personal but it genuinely bothers me. So you're "trying" to stay out of jail?... by getting high while your in outpatient? Can you explain to me where the word "trying" comes into play there? That sounds to me like you're actually trying to GO TO JAIL. I have tons of empathy for drug addicts, I understand people go through problems while in rehab and shit happens, people get high. But in this specific case, I'm gonna have to say that you deserve what ever the courts give to you. Sorry if I sound like an ass but I'm def not gonna attempt justifying what you did. Next time don't even go.

 

[sid3]

Yeah I tend to agree with that. Facing a stout sentence would be more than enough reason to give the weed a break.

 

[Sweet P]

If I couldn't stop myself from smoking pot I wouldn't be in outpatient or inpatient to begin.

But isn't that the whole point of outpatient programs?

I've turned up to my drug counselling sessions countless times while on meth, because that was the only way I could get out of bed and actually attend the appointments. I know that's different to the OP's situation, but I'm just saying.

 

[nioreh0422]

You would have to sign a "waiver" or release form at the rehab facility which would allow it to contact your probation or the courts about your progress. If said document was never signed, then you do not have to worry about the courts finding out.

If you are mandated to be in treatment, then find another one asap and cooperate with their rules.

If the courts subpoena his records then I doubt his signature really matters.

 

[Bojangles69]

But isn't that the whole point of outpatient programs?

I've turned up to my drug counselling sessions countless times while on meth, because that was the only way I could get out of bed and actually attend the appointments. I know that's different to the OP's situation, but I'm just saying.

It is yes. But I just got the impression you didn't really try that hard. Obviously this is the internet and I wasn't there, and I'd hate to misrepresent what happened, ESPECIALLY if you believe you tried. But didn't you have a naggin fear inside telling you "if I get high I could wind up spending time in jail?" I'm just curious where that fear went I guess.. or if you even had it to begin.

And the other thing that kind of got me was it was pot. If someone had just gotten off a morphine habit, and went into outpatient, then got high on it and got kicked out that would be a totally different story to me. I'm not sure if you're a daily pot smoker, and that was your first time taking a break in a long time. But I've never had an intense drive to go smoke pot while in rehab. Of course I've thought about it, but to be discomforted to the point where I'd actually risk getting kicked out doesn't seem feasable. Maybe this falls into that "pot affects people differently" category, and you were going through some serious shit in your head, but to relapse on pot seems more gratifying then out of your control additive.
I'm def not here to judge, I can't explain what you felt like before you did it. But it just seems like you didn't really try at all. If I'm wrong I'm sorry, but I'm just trying to be honest here.

 

[Sweet P]

^ You're confusing me for the OP, I think. I'm not much of a pot smoker.

 

[Lysis]

Sometimes, jail time is the only thing that works such in the case of the OP.

My ex smoked pot once and got nailed on a piss test during probation. Went to jail for 30 days and didn't do that shit again.

People just need to learn the hard way sometimes. If jail scared him that much, he would have realized that what he thought in his mind (smoking weed) was not what paralleled the law. This is really just a matter of playing with fire and getting burned and saying "WTF, fire? You burned me?"