Ketamine salts solubility

[polymath]

What if you were to add a (1-phenylpiperidine) or just a (phenyl) to Dizocilpines chemical structure ? Or place another molecule on the top of it. Would that be possibly or not ? And would it be more psychoactive ? Just wondering.

There is a huge number of different kinds of modifications you can do to that structure and the ones you mention are not much more interesting than others.

In other sciences, there is a principle called Occam's razor which states that you should principally try to make things as simple as possible but not any simpler. Therefore the first thing to try would be to see if NMDA activity remains even after removing the other aromatic ring

or after converting it to cyclohexane

Then you could try to test the naphthalene and pyridine versions of that molecule (whichever aromatic ring you replace with those).

There are also alternatives in where you put the nitrogen of that pyridine ring. This type of modifications look like what a medicinal chemist would first attempt to find out the structure activity relationships. Or they could try to add halogen, methyl or methoxy substituents on the aromatic rings.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I was talking about adding the phenyl to the top. Not to the side, but thanks for attempting to draw the molecule for me. I was thinking more of a link, with a phenyl on the top of the molecule.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

You laugh, but such a thing really does exist.

Back to the topic at hand.

4-(2-chlorophenyl)-2,9-dimethyl-6H-thieno[3,2-f][1,2,4]triazolo[4,3-a][1,4]diazepine
SMILES: CC1=CC2=C(N3C(C)=NN=C3CN=C2C4=CC=CC=C4Cl)S1

I would call this 'metizolam' but apparently the name is taken by this:

Here's a Benzo I came up with. It's 5-(2-Iodophenyl)-1-methyl-7-nitro-1Hbenzo(e)(1,4)diazepine-2(3H)-one. How strong of a Benzo would that be ?

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Here's another Benzo I designed. 8-Bromo-6-(2-Iodophenyl)-1-methyl-4H-imidazo(1,5-a)(1,4)Benzodiazepine. Which one do you think is stronger ? The first design or this one ?

 

[MedicinalUser247]

This may be the stupidest question I've ever asked. Can you make 3'4 Methylene Dioxy Phenylephrine ? Or is there no process for that ?

 

[AlsoTapered]

You laugh, but such a thing really does exist.

Back to the topic at hand.

4-(2-chlorophenyl)-2,9-dimethyl-6H-thieno[3,2-f][1,2,4]triazolo[4,3-a][1,4]diazepine
SMILES: CC1=CC2=C(N3C(C)=NN=C3CN=C2C4=CC=CC=C4Cl)S1

I would call this 'metizolam' but apparently the name is taken by this:

Sorry - that was me. when etizolam was banned in the UK, the boss wanted a design for a legal analogue that the Indian company who make etizolam could easily switch to. I admit, I spent under 90 seconds INCLUDING the name. But I couldn't find a convention for naming triazolo- derivatives that lacked the 2-methyl. It was just a name people would immediately recognize... and that seemed to be all that mattered.

Just out of interest, what name would have chosen?

 

[MedicinalUser247]

It that doesn't work then how about 3,4 Methylene Dioxy Methylphenylephrine ?

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Well this is one of the molecules I came up with, but I don't know if it would be Psychoactive. The design is (RS)-1-(1,3-Benzodioxol-5-yl)-3-(-1-hydroxy-2-(methylamino)ethyl)phenol. Its a cross between Methylene Dioxy and Phenylephrine. Whether it would be Psychoactive I can't be sure.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I just need to figure out how to replace the Hydroxyl radical that's left of the Phenyl and place a Methylene Dioxy there and I think it would work.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

That's because it's a Windows application.
Nobody does serious chemistry on their phones, in general.

You may want something more like KingDraw (disclaimer: i haven't used it at all)

I tried downloading KingDraw and the app was all in Chinese. So, I guess that's out of the question.

 

[sekio]

> Just out of interest, what name would have chosen?
Desetizolam? Desmethyl-etizolam? Because it still has the ethyl group.

It that doesn't work then how about 3,4 Methylene Dioxy Methylphenylephrine ?

Phenylephrine, IUPAC (R)-3-[1-hydroxy-2-(methylamino)ethyl]phenol, is AKA N-methyl-beta-hydroxy-(3-hydroxyphenyl)ethylamine.
So it already has a substituent at the 3 position.
"methylphenylephrine" is an ill defined name because the methyl could be on several places (the ring? the alpha carbon? the beta carbon? either of the alcohol groups? (the 3-position one on the ring, or the alcohol on the beta carbon - making a methoxy group)
And if you mean alpha-methyl-phenylephrine, that would more correctly be called 3-hydroxyephedrine.
So, given a loose interpretation of that name, you mean beta-hydroxy-MDMA, or methylenedioxyephedrine.
The IUPAC name for that is 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-2-(methylamino)propan-1-ol.

It is a known metabolite of methylone and is less active than either methylone or MDMA and also more peripherally active.

You need to stop manipulating IUPAC names in the fashion you are doing. The names you make as a result do not make a lot of sense, What you want to do is:
1. Draw the structure you are starting with
2. Make the changes to the structure
3. Name the new structure.

This is because doing things like e.g. changing an -OH to a methylenedioxy ring can TOTALLY change the name of the compound.

I tried downloading KingDraw and the app was all in Chinese. So, I guess that's out of the question.

How did you install it, specifically?
I just installed it through the Google App Store and it was in English. Try that.

You can also use an on-line app like https://molview.org/ or something too.
But really, ChemDraw on a Windows PC is the gold standard - nobody seriously uses phones to do chemical structure drawing.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I think I used chemsketch back in undergrad because it has a free version, worked pretty well for me

https://alternativeto.net/software/chemdraw/

 

[AlsoTapered]

Blue Book

The full text of the Nomenclatue of Organic Chemistry IUPAC Recommendations and Preferred Names 2013

iupac.qmul.ac.uk

IUPAC Blue Book complete, on-line, free. Took me 10 seconds to find.

If you can't even produce IUPAC names for compounds, how on earth is anyone else supposed to know what you mean?

BTW YES, it IS a lot of work, but we all had to learn it in the first year of or undergraduate course because all papers, patents and other technical texts ALL use IUPAC as it is the lingua franca of organic chemistry.

AS SGOTI pointed out, that weight HAS been lifted with the FREE software. There are several choices so try them all, but please, USE them.

 

[sekio]

5-(2-Iodophenyl)-1-methyl-7-nitro-1Hbenzo(e)(1,4)diazepine-2(3H)-one

Here's another Benzo I designed. 8-Bromo-6-(2-Iodophenyl)-1-methyl-4H-imidazo(1,5-a)(1,4)Benzodiazepine. Which one do you think is stronger ? The first design or this one ?

"Designed"? You swapped one atom for another. Don't rest on your laurels quite yet.

Nobody can predict benzo potencies except in a general sense.
The first is an analogue of Ro05-4082 or N-methylclonazepam (which is apparently about as strong as clonazepam) with an iodine instead of a chlorine so should have similar effects to its parent drug with maybe longer half life (greater logP = more fat soluble) and less potency (more bulky = poorer binding).
The second is an analogue of flubromazolam, but given what we know about benzos, generally 2-fluoro produces the most potent benzos (compare flunitrazepam with clonazepam/Ro05-4082) so going from a fluoro to an iodine would make it less potent and also longer lasting.
You don't see a lot of iodines on benzos for that reason. Or turning the phenyl ring to a napthyl or the like.

I don't think I've seen swapping a thiophene for the phenyl.

SMILES: O=C1CN=C(C2=CC=CS2)C3=CC([N+]([O-])=O)=CC=C3N1C
1-methyl-7-nitro-5-(thiophen-2-yl)-1,3-dihydro-2H-benzo[e][1,4]diazepin-2-one - an analogue of nimetazepam. Would be interesting to know if it's equipotent.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

> Just out of interest, what name would have chosen?
Desetizolam? Desmethyl-etizolam? Because it still has the ethyl group.


Phenylephrine, IUPAC (R)-3-[1-hydroxy-2-(methylamino)ethyl]phenol, is AKA N-methyl-beta-hydroxy-(3-hydroxyphenyl)ethylamine.
So it already has a substituent at the 3 position.
"methylphenylephrine" is an ill defined name because the methyl could be on several places (the ring? the alpha carbon? the beta carbon? either of the alcohol groups? (the 3-position one on the ring, or the alcohol on the beta carbon - making a methoxy group)
And if you mean alpha-methyl-phenylephrine, that would more correctly be called 3-hydroxyephedrine.
So, given a loose interpretation of that name, you mean beta-hydroxy-MDMA, or methylenedioxyephedrine.
The IUPAC name for that is 1-(benzo[d][1,3]dioxol-5-yl)-2-(methylamino)propan-1-ol.

It is a known metabolite of methylone and is less active than either methylone or MDMA and also more peripherally active.

You need to stop manipulating IUPAC names in the fashion you are doing. The names you make as a result do not make a lot of sense, What you want to do is:
1. Draw the structure you are starting with
2. Make the changes to the structure
3. Name the new structure.

This is because doing things like e.g. changing an -OH to a methylenedioxy ring can TOTALLY change the name of the compound.


How did you install it, specifically?
I just installed it through the Google App Store and it was in English. Try that.

You can also use an on-line app like https://molview.org/ or something too.
But really, ChemDraw on a Windows PC is the gold standard - nobody seriously uses phones to do chemical structure drawing.

What I was trying to design looks like the bottom molecule. Only that in my design there isn't that extra link going down between the OH and the HN. So it lacks the link that Amphetamines have. So, it's a cross between both. And if I we're to name my substance. I would call it... Utopia.

 

[sekio]

Only that in my design there isn't that extra link going down between the OH and the HN. So it lacks the link that Amphetamines have. So, it's a cross between both

You mean the plain phenethylamine? (Shulgin called it "BOHH")

Every "link" there is a bond between two atoms, and by default carbon atoms are not drawn but implied, same as hydrogen atoms. Otherwise we get structures like this:

MDPEA (the compound without the hydroxy) is inactive at 300mg.[ref]
The closely related "DME" (the dimethoxy analogue) is also inactive at 115mg.[ref]
It's only with the methoxy compound that you get activity, and it is a known compound called BOH. Unfortunately the trip reports don't seem very interesting at all.

A footnote in DME states:
"BOHH, or 3,4-methylenedioxy-β-hydroxyphenethylamine, or 3,4-methylenedioxy-β-ethanolamine, (viz. your compound) has also been assayed in man at up to 100 milligrams without any effects, and must be considered, as of now, to be inactive centrally"

"Utopia" it is not. You really need the alpha-methyl to make a good stimulant or empathogen.


---

(S)-2-((2S,4S)-2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-isopropyl-1,3-dioxolan-4-yl)piperidine
SMILES: ClC1=CC=CC=C1[C@@]2(C(C)C)OC[C@@]([C@@]3([H])NCCCC3)([H])O2

for a dissociative, a super potent dexoxadrol / etoxadrol analogue (should be orally active to boot)
According to this paper combining 2' chloro and an isopropyl will both increase NMDAR binding, making this a potent etoxadrol analogue. 2-chloro-isoproxadrol ? (compound 9d combined with 10a)

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Well, now you know what I was designing. That's the molecule right there, but I wouldn't call the substance plain old Phenethylamine. Its hybrid of Methylene Dioxy with a much easier to obtain molecule such as Phenylephrine.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

Also, I know you're a chemist, but I base my idea of making Methylene Dioxy Phenylephrine off the fact that Phenylephrine is mildly psychoactive. Some people get a buzz off Phenylephrine. And I was just wondering what the effects would be if you were to add a Methylene Dioxy molecule to a Phenylephrine molecule and it would be interesting to see if adding a Methylene Dioxy molecule to a Phenylephrine molecule just to see what the effects would be. I can only hypothesize that it would only be mildly psychoactive. I'm just basically trying to design a much more easy way to manufacture a molecule that would have psychoactive effects and which would be easier to produce. It would be interesting to see what the effects of Methylene Dioxy Phenylephrine would be. Basically because it's been untested.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

If I wasn't thinking about the easy way of making something. I would come up with 3,4 Methylene Dioxy MethylMethlyphenidate, but that's got to be harder to produce.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

Why would it be easy to produce?