Ketamine Gave Me Gastritis (K Cramps, Ulcers)

[LucidSDreamr]

Oh wow, I didn't know about the bile ducts. A Bluelighter named vortech actually died of bile duct cancer last year... he did tons of arylcyclohexamines (ketamine is one, as are all the -PCPs and -PCEs and -PCMs).

Holy shit I didn't know he died. I was helping him with his next dissociative book and he just fell off the map one day. I would like to know more and whether we can conclude his cancer was related to drug use.

To add to this thread arylcyclohexamine abuse gave me interstitial cystitis. I can never drink alcohol, eat good food, or do stimulants or psychedelics ever again.

And I endured 6 months of suicidal levels of pain. A five year IV heroin habit did not cause as much damage as dissocistives.

This is just another of the hundreds of suchthreads. I and many others have continued asking for a sticky on this topic. But I think bluelight suffers a hit from the "psychedelics are the only wholesome and harmless drugs" outlook that is so common among psychedelic drug users.

 

[Bitchniggaz]

So I am moderately educated in the medical arena, but by no means to the level of specialty that many of you folks seem to be. Thank you all for sharing information and experiences, it really helps people like me who are looking for information and harm reduction techniques.

I am curious, as it seems that ketamine will have more and more of a role in treating depression, how exactly the negative effects of the drug manifest and what the variables are in their appearance.

I have been using ketamine as prescribed by a psychiatrist for severe depression and suicidal thoughts post-brain injury for several months. I was on intranasal administration, 20mg twice a day, for probably 5 months. Then seemed to develop a tolerance and increased to 40mg twice a day for two months. At the beginning of the year, insurance changes pushed me over to IM injection, 35mg once a day. I have been on that for just over two weeks, and have found it to be doing a lot more for my depression symptoms, the intranasal only seemed to keep the suicidal thoughts in check. Lately I feel better all around, lifting of the anhedonia and less lethargy.

I knew it had potential to irritate the bladder lining, and I had been told by the doctor that some people develop GI issues over time that may be irreversible. But reading more on here has me a bit more concerned about the pervasiveness of such symptom development, and the addition damage to internal organs like the liver damage mentioned.

I am not terribly familiar with ketamine as a recreational drug, so I don?t know how my dosage compares, and the quality of the medication from pharmacy vs. other avenues, and the ROA.

I would be very curious and appreciative if anyone could shed some light on how the longer-term medical use might compare or the differences in the side-effects to recreational use. No judgment on recreational use, I am a full proponent of educated and responsible use of substances like psychedelics.

I am also a bit curious about the addiction potential here. I always try to be very self-aware and cautious of becoming addicted to any substances. With ketamine, it has literally been a life saver. But it sounds like ketamine has a reputation for being very easy to fall into addiction without being aware of it. Are there any insights that can be shared as to warning signs or what to be watching out for to avoid addiction issues with this drug?

Thank you!

I dont think you need to worry.
Most people who get issues do grams a day.

 

[bug12]

what do you take for the gastritis?

 

[Nicholai]

I will say this was in 1990. I knew people that took it a lot. I mean a lot. And bladder issues were unknown. This seems to be a new phenomenon. It is interesting. But I admit watching a friend who has since stopped but still screwed up gave me the interest. And like Shadowmeister said it is the arylcyclohexamines, and I do think all of them are suspect. Use wisely if at all.

In the late 90's in the US, before it was illegal, I was a young raver and clubkid, and even back then we'd hear stories about people who were doing tons and getting messed up from it. One guy had to have his bladder removed, and I remember a few other people that were having trouble peeing. So these issues weren't completely unknown, although we had absolutely no idea what was going on. I lurked on BL way back when it started, looking for information about ecstacy, but I don't recall a mention of it here at all.

I had a friend who went back and forth to NYC all the time, and he'd bring back a case of vials every time. We'd cook up the whole lot and throw a big party, but it was just key bumps spread amongst a large group of people over a few days, and all of us were fine.

It's really sad to hear about the damage, and even deaths that it causes people, as it really is a great substance. Definitely use it in moderation.

 

[dopamimetic]

Ok, interesting fact you mention @Nicholai, about bladder issues in the 90's.

So just a possibility, that the illicit Chinese K might contain a synthesis impurity that heavily increases the load to the bladder & urinary tract. And/or it doesn't hit everybody. Dissociatives are great at masking your body's needs like thirst and hunger. Especially thirst, so if one isn't watching for this, it's easy to become dehydrated on disso binges. Concentrated urine with lots of metabolites staying in the bladder for long time doing more harm than dilated urine that's excreted frequently.

Sad to head that about vortech. Rest in peace..
Would be interested too about whether the cancer was related to his arylcyclohexylamine usage.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

As much as we all dont want to believe it, with the availability of these drugs to the general public via the DNM, and with the increasing popularity of ketamine for use in clinical settings to treat depression and chronic pain, encouraging people to medicate on their own.

I think we are unfortunately in for a very big wave of victims in the immediate future.

I did not approach these drugs with the same caution given to MDMA and long term comedown.

These drugs need to be labeled as just as dangerous as MDMA within the drug using community, in my opinion. I think we are starting to see the first instances of that happening lately. As I dont recall "only use dissos once in a blue moon" rules existing ever. In fact regular talk of daily use and medicating depression as such is the norm during disso discussion. In contrast look at a thread where someone is doing MDMA daily and you'll have 20 people piling on calling said person responsible and warning of their assured demise.

 

[Vastness]

^LucidSDreamer, do I remember incorrectly or didn't you develop bladder issues after using some DCK? I could be remembering this wrongly but I though I recalled in another thread a while back you describing some DCK as "caustic"... And I also had an experience of lasting bladder symptoms after using a particular DCK batch, although mercifully shorter lasting.

Maybe just coincidence or perhaps I remember this incorrectly as I haven't seen anyone else talking about a similar experience, but this idea reminded me of it -

So just a possibility, that the illicit Chinese K might contain a synthesis impurity that heavily increases the load to the bladder & urinary tract. And/or it doesn't hit everybody. Dissociatives are great at masking your body's needs like thirst and hunger. Especially thirst, so if one isn't watching for this, it's easy to become dehydrated on disso binges. Concentrated urine with lots of metabolites staying in the bladder for long time doing more harm than dilated urine that's excreted frequently.

Although that said, while I'm sure this is quite possible, it's also quite possible that it's ALL ACH-related damage and no impurities are involved.

This is just another of the hundreds of suchthreads. I and many others have continued asking for a sticky on this topic. But I think bluelight suffers a hit from the "psychedelics are the only wholesome and harmless drugs" outlook that is so common among psychedelic drug users.

I agree with this to some extent, but I would actually argue that dissociatives are distinct enough substances to be allocated an entirely separate forum. I think that there is some truth to the idea that true psychedelics are one of the least harmful classes of substances, but dissociatives in my view do not fit into this class, although they like to pretend to, for sure - and although I understand why they are so often grouped together, I think this grouping has the potential to be actually harmful.

...On that note, and looking at the current forum arrangements, I would say that "MDMA & Empathogenic Drugs" could easily have been grouped with psychedelics since there is a lot of overlap between psychedelics and empathogens. Although I think it is absolutely correct that they should have their own forum. Equally though I think it might be time for a "Ketamine & Dissociative Drugs" forum, for similar reasons as you mentioned, and also to make clear that dissociation is a quite distinct state from classical psychedelia, and equally, that dissociative drugs are quite a distinct class from psychedelic drugs, with their own unique set of dangers.

(...I have actually started a new thread about this suggestion - I quoted your post above in that thread also as I thought it was relevant, I hope you don't mind, let me know if you do.)

 

[Xorkoth]

Regarding a sticky highlighting the risks of ACHs, I think that's a great idea. It has become very clear over the course of time how damaging they are when abused, to various systems of the body. I would welcome some collaboration in crafting such a post.

I do think having multiple threads about ketamine damage staying near the top of the forum for so long now probably has had some effect.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

^LucidSDreamer, do I remember incorrectly or didn't you develop bladder issues after using some DCK? I could be remembering this wrongly but I though I recalled in another thread a while back you describing some DCK as "caustic"... And I also had an experience of lasting bladder symptoms after using a particular DCK batch, although mercifully shorter lasting.

Maybe just coincidence or perhaps I remember this incorrectly as I haven't seen anyone else talking about a similar experience, but this idea reminded me of it -Although that said, while I'm sure this is quite possible, it's also quite possible that it's ALL ACH-related damage and no impurities are involved.



I agree with this to some extent, but I would actually argue that dissociatives are distinct enough substances to be allocated an entirely separate forum. I think that there is some truth to the idea that true psychedelics are one of the least harmful classes of substances, but dissociatives in my view do not fit into this class, although they like to pretend to, for sure - and although I understand why they are so often grouped together, I think this grouping has the potential to be actually harmful.

...On that note, and looking at the current forum arrangements, I would say that "MDMA & Empathogenic Drugs" could easily have been grouped with psychedelics since there is a lot of overlap between psychedelics and empathogens. Although I think it is absolutely correct that they should have their own forum. Equally though I think it might be time for a "Ketamine & Dissociative Drugs" forum, for similar reasons as you mentioned, and also to make clear that dissociation is a quite distinct state from classical psychedelia, and equally, that dissociative drugs are quite a distinct class from psychedelic drugs, with their own unique set of dangers.

(...I have actually started a new thread about this suggestion - I quoted your post above in that thread also as I thought it was relevant, I hope you don't mind, let me know if you do.)

My use involved a variety including mxe 3meo pcp dck and ketamine. Not heavy usage compared to many posters on here.

Regardless of whether one specific chemical was to blame. I can tell you that once the issues had began to surface doing pharmaceutical ketamine made the situation worse, although I dont think was as harsh as 3meo or dck.

I dont think it is due to synthetic inpuritities, since we have seen these issues caused by pharmaceutical ketamine all the way up to the most exotic RCs, it is something that is inherent in the mechanism of action of these drugs.

If it was synth impurities why would we see the same issue across differentRC disso of completely different chemical structure and synthetic routes? Why dont we see the issue occurring in any other drug classes?

 

[Xorkoth]

I agree, I think it has something to do with the acrylcyclohexylamine class, or perhaps even NMDA antagonism in general. A frequent argument (that I have made before even) for ketamine being harmless is that it's considered among the safest drugs for anesthesia, even given to children, and at doses far higher than recreational doses. However, that argument is invalid, because when used for anesthesia, it's a one-off dose one time, or maybe a few times in someone's life. Chronic usage could (and seems to indeed) have much different health concerns than a single dose.

Our member vortech (RIP bud) died recently of an aggressive bile duct cancer... he did tons of dissociatives and had been having problems for some time. Evidence is mounting that chronic use of ACHs has a variety of very real and concerning health risks. I still think they can be great drugs, when used sparingly, but I think abuse of them (which happens often) is simply not benign like was once thought.

 

[In4Md.]

I became a heavy ketamine user for about 2 years.. I only got k cramps one time when I first started using, and that was when I bindged on salt k. Worst pain ever!!! Kratom was the only thing that helped the pain. I did a saline enema cleanse which I think really helped. After that horrible experience I made sure to stay alway from salts, always take activated charcoal, and also Uva ursi (an amazing bladder supporting plant). I also would drink vinegar to help counteract acidity from K, and I also use topical magnesium frequently (magnesium is supposed to be great with k?). For some reason I never had any health issues from It despite the fact that I have snorted abnormal amounts for a while, and I am a young girl with a little body.... Twice I even went through an entire ounce myself in a week :/ I used it every day and self medicated with it for depression and anxiety. I viewed my ketamine usage to be no different than how people use caffeine or smoke cigarettes..... I finally decided to stop this lifestyle when I realized how stupid it actually makes me (it gives me symptoms of dyslexia and aphasia).
I came to terms with my addiction when I reflected on my usage habits - I would use it in the bathroom in-between classes. I think doing it secretively is something to watch out for.
- Kratom helped me easily transition into a ketamine free life. Also I started to supplement lithium because it has brain growth factors and is mood boosting. I don't feel the need to do K anymore.
- I think activated charcoal was so extremely helpful for protecting my digestive system!!!
- I heard mastic gum is an antacid thats great for stomach ulcers and pain. - maybe it could help k stomach damage?
- I think bone broth and collostrum are the most gut healing things to consume ever.

 

[Mads91]

High in the stomach like where the gallbladder/ pancreas would be located?
Or like lower in your stomach? Because UTI symptoms and issues with the bladder have been reported and experienced by myself personally however the former one is the one I have most often experienced and researched...
Picture the bile ducts being crystallized or something. I am not a doctor, but feel good enough about putting this out there for other people to do with what they will.

Kcramps are common but not talked about much for some reason. People sometimes have a really bad sensitivity to ketamine and I've read studies where even just one dose or low doses have caused these issues and pains.
Drunk plenty of water and stop the ketamine usage.
Enemas with olive oil even if the stool is so dry that it's hard to pass.
I've heard Tylenol can help but may not be good on the tummy. I personally have taken it intermittently because it gets so bad that you just have to.
Green tea, peppermint tea, ginger tea, lemon tea. The warm water bit helps and you can also use a hot water bottle to put on your stomach if you can't get in a hot bath.
Some people say midol, paracetamol, and I've tried the midol. I didn't notice a huge difference.
Magnesium chews were helpful, potassium pills I've heard also.
Take all of that for what it's worth. Gathered from other posts and tried from personal experience and read from medical reports online.
Pancreatitis or pancreas issues/gallbladder issues.
I've also read something about "Sphincter of Oddi dysfunction" which is a tube lining in or leading near the pancreas.
I would go see a GI doctor/specialist, [Gastrointerologist]
Take care and lay off the k.
Water, water and more water my friend