Ketamine enantomer question

[Sturnam]

Recently, I've been very confused about the whole ketamine enantomer deal. from everything I have read here (several TR's) and one on erowid, the S(+) isomer is the psychedelic one, without the strong tendency to knock you out.

However, from reading the journal articles they all say that S(+) is used because of the exact opposite reasons.

S(+) ketamine, because of its higher anesthetic potency and lower risk of psychotomimetic reactions, has been suggested to be superior to presently available racemic ketamine.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2185332

Even wiki agrees (although i know it's not the best source).

Since (S)-ketamine has greater analgesic effects and less hallucinogenic side effects than (R)-ketamine, the pure (S) enantiomer is sometimes preferred to the racemic mix for use in medical procedures, especially when lower doses are used for minor surgical procedures where the patient remains conscious during the operation.

So, what's the deal with the enantomers then? I find it pretty hard to believe that the scientific community could make multiple blunders (more than one study done on this), and yet I also find it hard to believe that all the educated people here would overlook this fact. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[fastandbulbous]

People who've taken the S(+) isomer are the ones of the opinion that it's the more psychedelic (not just the druggies here, but respected people in the field of ketamine research like Karl Jansen, who's a member of the Royal Society of Psychiatrists)

Ever read reports about the action of LSD by people who've never experienced the psychedelic state & though,"that's not the drug I know as LSD"?

 

[nuke]

The subjective effects are different, as stated above, and note that the latter reports are likely to be thought of from the perspective of the anaesthesiologist, while the user reports on BL are probably more relevant to the patient/subject experiencing the effects.

As far as anaesthesiology is concerned, the s-enantiomer is more potent and less likely to cause a psychotomimetic reaction (eg PCP-like rage).

 

[fastandbulbous]

^ A more concise version of my post (I'm in a strange waffling state of mind tonight)! In this case psychomimetic and psychedelic are def not the same thing...


Mrs f&b just looked over my shoulder & asked how I can differentiate between my normal state & when I'm waffling - guess who's not getting a cuppa made for them before going to bed tonight?

 

[Sturnam]

ah. thank you. i figured that the reports here were probably more accurate, but it seems weird that the government (US at least) would "overlook" something like that. but i suppose most of the anesthesia with ketamine is also with amnesics, so even if the patients did get fun effects, they wouldn't remember it.

thank you for also clearing up the psychotomimetic thing. i know that they're different terms, but research into psychedelics, at least old research, always used that term, so i figured maybe they were still using it.

but going with that, does that mean the that R(-) isomer CAN produce PCP-rage like effects? or is that very unlikely because of the sedative effects also associated with the R isomer?

 

[MattPsy]

For X thing to have less of quality Y than some other Z thing, Z thing must have an amount of quality Y that is not nothing.

So the answer based on that evidence is "yes".
This doesn't mean that it's probable enough to be worth worrying about, though. Nor does it mean that it will be a rage reaction... just that it's "psychotomimetic", whatever that might be. Pretty loose term.

And yeah ketamine is usually given with an amnesic agent to prevent "emergence reactions" ie. people tripping the fuck out and remembering it.

 

[intensemoments]

What is the name of the S+ isomer brand?

People who've taken the S(+) isomer are the ones of the opinion that it's the more psychedelic (not just the druggies here, but respected people in the field of ketamine research like Karl Jansen, who's a member of the Royal Society of Psychiatrists)

Ever read reports about the action of LSD by people who've never experienced the psychedelic state & though,"that's not the drug I know as LSD"?

Ive heard that Imalgen is good and ive heard ketaset??

 

[Black]

has anyone ever tried R-ketamine?