Ketamine & depression

[no_id]

Really simple stuff :

- The current trend is to attribute to ketamine or more generally NMDA antagonist antidepressants effects (type "depression ketamine" on google).
- Multiple studies show depression is augmented in frequent, occasionnal or abstinent Ketamine user compared to control ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19919593 ).

Where is the truth ? Your experience ?

I'm atm stopping using mxe because my afterglow now are depressive while at the beginning of my mxe period they wasn't. I don't want to risk my mental health, I prefer that it stay a really occasionnal stuff (wich I see now as 1 time each 3 month).

 

[RhythmSpring]

I can attest to the potentially powerful ketamine afterglow. I've had *strong* ones that last for about a week after a few bumps. But be warned, tolerance builds fast, and the afterglow dies. It's best to make the most of your K afterglow as much as possible. Take advantage of that time to make meaningful changes in your life.

I've never done MXE, but from what I keep reading, it's sort of a manic, foggy, hedonistic, and psychologically dangerous version of K. K seems like a more straightforward, clearer experience.

 

[Foreigner]

MXE and ketamine are not interchangeable. You can't look at studies about ketamine and assume that MXE will have the same effects. AFAIK this correlation hasn't been proven.

Ketamine's anti-depressant effect occurs at threshold doses or lower. You can't use recreational doses (i.e. getting high) without experiencing diminishing returns. The idea is to gently antagonize the NMDA receptors without down-regulating them.

I know that many studies out there involve using higher doses of ketamine and even k-hole levels, but those studies were done as single-time doses. You're not meant to do recreational K frequently if you want to combat depression. It has to be one large dose very rarely, or regular sub-threshold doses. And of those two options, IMO latter has more lasting results. I detail my experiences here.

Also keep in mind that such a regimen is more ideal for receptor-related depression, and if other methods like lifestyle change, counseling, etc. have not yielded lasting results. If someone eats crap food and never exercises, or has a lot of problems they're refusing to deal with, then ketamine is not going to be the miracle cure. But if you're like me and a wide array of treatments haven't helped (or have caused more insidious harm), then ketamine might work.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

MXE is serotonergic IIRC so it can not be assumed it will have the same effects.
And even ketamine for depression is done at very low threshold doses generally.
I know after a k binge I can be pretty fucking depressed, but if I do a 25mg bump a couple times a day I'm in a pretty good mood

 

[no_id]

thx for responses.

I've some other question, do you think excitotoxicity can happen from AMPA receptor stimulation (NMDA antagonism > AMPA stimulation) ? I can't find the info on the web and don't understand any shit at the wikipedia page.
Too, is there any consensus about LTP/LTD, relation to brain plasticity & antagonising NMDA receptors ?

 

[xTalK]

MXE is better for this in my opinion and many others would agree. However I don't think self-dosing dissociative is a way to solve depression, it needs to be done properly at accurate dosing and with proper research/analysis going on as it's fairly new. People need to understand that depression medications need to be used as a crutch rather than fix, it's the changes in diet, exercise, setting and lifestyle that tend to have the most impact from my own experience and talking to those who have had very bad depression including some who had unfortunately attempted suicide numerous times.

To be honest though, for anyone who is close to or a regular user of Ketamine this is unlikely to be a fix. For me it has a reverse effect and now makes me feel depressed and anxious but I did used to binge heavily and had been for a number of years. Binges generally were at least a day of solid k-holing and going through 7-14g, so at the same time it is entirely self inflicted.

I've also spoken to people who've did the full ketamine non-recreational dose thing for depression that is well covered here, most tend to say that eventually habit catches up and it's too hard to maintain medical from recreation.