• Current Events & Politics
    Welcome Guest
    Please read before posting:
    Forum Guidelines Bluelight Rules
  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Kavanaugh sworn in

ENSURE PROMPT SENATE VOTES ON EXECUTIVE AND JUDICIAL NOMINATIONS

The irony here is thick enough to cut with a knife. I'm not sure how much of his opinion on this was shaped by the finger pointing in this thread about parties using delay tactics to stall out selections based on partisan politics. I think we can all agree on wanting the RIGHT candidates to be voted in (though we differ on the definition of RIGHT), but we all want a proper amount of time to evaluate and ensure we get the RIGHT candidates in. His circus of a hearing only highlights how broken the system is, and it is getting worse. If some which to bend this to being 'empowering the executive branch', I can see that somewhat, as it is the duty of the President to put forth nominees....but it falls back to Congress to actually vote someone in or out of the position. Doesn't matter if the President has a list 20 deep or needs 20 months to come up with a single candidate, this suggestion is addressing the process of vetting and filling vacancies.

But if you read this section, he is addressing not just SC nominees. The comments by some that this is self serving by the President as regards Kavenaugh's nomination...is missing the entire thrust of this article. All positions requiring Senate approval are suffering by the current processes. He points out there is no distinction between nominees for executive branch positions vs judicial branch positions in terms of the hearing process. However, he suggest there ought to be a different approach, considering the executive branch positions serve at the discretion of the President (he can fire whenever, and they answer to him), whereas judicial positions are lifetime vocations answering to no political party or President. The Senate has crippled Presidencies (of both parties) when the majority is of the party opposite the President - the inability to effectively vet and vote on candidates has left cabinet positions and other executive openings vacant for far too long, leaving the President short handed in doing what the people elected him (or her) to do.

Leaving key jobs unfilled can paralyze executive branch efforts to accomplish critical missions and discourages innovative and bold executive branch action. To be sure, in the power struggle that is Washington, Congress sometimes seems to prefer an enfeebled executive. But this is short-sighted because, as Alexander Hamilton correctly stated in Federalist No. 70, “[a] feeble executive implies a feeble execution of the government.

He suggests a 30day window for nominees to executive positions. To me, this seems reasonable on several counts. First, such nominees aren't last minute submissions (suprise, Congress!), and plenty of background checks (hello FBI investigations!) are done ahead of nomination. Secondly, in line with the public's expectations that these folks get treated like the rest of us, we get something similar to our court systems with their "the right to a speedy and public trial" or hearing (hey there, sixth amendment!).

To the judicial positions, and SC in particular, he does describe more in depth reviews are appropriate. He goes further to describe the way the hearing process has broken down in recent years where a nominee's views on existing cases (ie, Roe v Wade) has gained more weight for discussion among senators, over qualification and ethical character. he's fine with the expansion of review to address this, according to his article. Where he takes issue and suggests reform is in the procedural aspects. he references senators stalling and putting nominees on hold indefinitely for judicial positions based on political parties rather than addressing the needs of the court systems. Specifically, positions (not just SC) are left open for years, and nominees put their lives on hold indefinitely awaiting word from the Senate. His proposition is simple, put it to a 180d limit to get it to a vote. 6months brings the gap (for the court, and the nominee) to a more reasonable level. I don't see this as wrong. In fact, I see this as a good suggestion for trying to squeeze politics OUT of this process and allow the Judicial branch to more effectively do what it is intended to do. This was supported "...by President Clinton, President Bush, then-Chief Justice Rehnquist, and the American Bar Association among others."
 
STREAMLINE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ORGANIZATION AND ENSURE THAT OFFICIALS IN INDEPENDENT AGENCIES ARE MORE ACCOUNTABLE

Ok, he's got two main points here. The first is the duplication and confusion that exists between so many agencies. "Overlapping responsibilities means redundancy, inefficiency,
conflict, and unnecessary finger-pointing." The second is effectiveness and accountability of so many independent agencies. On the second point, he points out that President appoints members of these agencies, but after that he has minimal control over them and can only fire for cause (SC has made it fairily clear this is a hard standard to meet). "The independence those agencies enjoy from presidential direction and supervision may weaken the Executive and strengthen Congress’s hand in the Washington power game. But this independence has clear costs in terms of democratic accountability." He asks if the Executive branch should have more control over these agencies (here is something to point at in terms of empowering that branch), in an effort to thin down the organizational structure, provide clear delineation of responsibilities, and more importantly bring a level of accountability that does not exist today.
 
RECOGNIZE THAT BOTH THE LEGISLATIVE AND EXECUTIVE BRANCHES HAVE LEGITIMATE AND SOMETIMES OVERLAPPING ROLES IN WAR AND NATIONAL SECURITY

Here, he is first acknowledging that the Constitution clearly gives congress (only) the authority to declare war. However, in referencing work by Judge Jackson, there are three areas in which a President has historically flexed his military muscle: 1) Congress authorizes maximum Presidential power, 2) Congress has neither authorized nor prohibited, 3) Congress has prohibited the President from taking action. Recall, he was writing this in an era following Invasions (Grenada '83, Panama '89) and targeted strikes (Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan in 90's; Kosovo '99), as well as congressionally approved actions such as Gulf War '91, Afghan War '01, and Iraq qar '03. Category 3 is ill defined on what a President can lawfully do; therefore it is preferred to seek congressional approval. If there is a dispute, the judicial branch has been ready to address it. But his main thrust of this section is to get courts to provide more clarity, less interpretation, of the rules - to rely on the laws written, and not make assumptions based on congressional silence on a topic. He also urges that Presidents avoid operating in category 3. A lot of this stems from the confusion of the broadening of Presidential powers following 9/11.
 
CONSIDER THE POSSIBLE BENEFITS OF A SINGLE, SIX-YEAR PRESIDENTIAL TERM

A big part of this appears aimed at the distraction, and therefore ineffectiveness, of Presidents who get elected and then spend a large amount of time campaigning for a second term. He references the original constitutions providing for unlimited 4y terms, and the 22nd amendment in 1951 that then limited it to only two such terms. He goes to some length about the problems and ineffectiveness of the current policy, acknowledges a single six year term may not be the solution other, but is asking that the subject be reviewed and have options considered for improved presidential effectiveness going forward.
 
These posts are NOT so espouse his opinion, but to clarify and educate for those who haven't taken the time to explore this nominee and prefer to simply repeat what is said from not even a skin deep assessment on MSM. Personally, I don't agree with some of his proposals, but I accept he has a much better perspective and experience from which to put these forth. Moreover, he is not saying these are the things that must be done, but are ideas intended to generate discussion so that the Legislative Branch who can enact changes will work to improve our gov't.
 
TLB, I used "Kav" in quotes because that nickname was used in some frat boy defense of grabass perv-hood by one of his mates on social media. I actually thought you were having fun with that nickname. So it's all good, with me. I was more referencing that source, which I thought you were referencing.... I'm going to just let this be. :)

Cheers.

As stated in the article I quoted, the FBI collects allegations. It's tradition not to investigate further unless someone with the authority (in this case I think only Trump can trigger it) requests it. (See my post above.)

So yes, I think it's completely disingenuous for the one guy who could prompt an FBI investigation (Trump) to act like it couldn't happen. "The FBI can't do anything..." Yeah, because of him not wanting them to do so. Please.

Ok. So Trump could trigger an investigation. Of what? There is still nothing of substance to investigate. Please, PLEASE, enlighten me on what they can investigate? If there were something material to be looked into, why wouldn't local law enforcement pick that up and run with it? Not saying FBI can't or shouldn't (IF anything to investigate can be brought forward), but there's no reason the local law enforcement would wait for FBI to hand them findings...especially when local law enforcement would be the ones supporting local prosecutors in bringing charges. My point is that the FBI ought not be the ONE resource pointed to, others can do this as well (I see no reason for ALL to work together, as opposed to passing back and forth as 'not my job'). I don't see ANYONE picking up anything to investigate.

After the whole "I was a virgin" Kavanaugh interview, and public commentary by teammates and roommates and schoolmates about Kavanaugh and his sloppy drunk behavior (and he completely denies ever being really drunk) is ridiculous.

So yes I have found Kavanaugh to completely lack credibility, but I've also actually followed this closely. I investigated like 4chan ;) based on his interview, having multiple accusers with have corroboration by witnesses, etc.

...

Also, Dr. Ford's testimony, which is corroborated by four individuals, and her polygraph showed her to be credible imo.

I haven't watched the hearings, I can't give my opinion.
 
if they are false.

if they are true...it's never ending without FACTS :\ That's really all I want, facts. If we are left with just a he-said-she-said, we are nowhere. Second best is witnesses, which haven't shaken out so well in providing something closer to facts (still 'they said'). So we are left with taking accusations as true, and condemning a man's career possibly by mistake; or taking the accusations as false, and letting a less than desired candidate onto the SC while ignoring someone's personal trauma. Neither is appealing to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the whole "innocent until proven guilty" apply to criminal proceedings only?

The Senators' job is to advise and consent. They can vote for or against, for whichever reasons they choose.

So there really is no "burden of proof". It's just pageantry.

Agreed, this process is not a trial nor does it require 'burden of proof'. To my comments above, I'm afraid we will be left with he-said-she-said(-they-said) which really doesn't shed truth and only leaves vague guessery for the Senate casting the vote....then it becomes a political line driving the votes, which is not what the position, or process, call for.
 
Last edited:
It's like a he said, they said at this point. He also blatantly lied to the committee yesterday, and displayed an aggressively partisan temperament which is disqualifying in and of itself.

the repubs had no issue delaying Obama's nominee for almost a year. Yet now one more week of investigation is simply too much.

All I can say, when he's confirmed, the blue wave (if it exists) just got about a hundred feet taller. Sexual predators in the White House, sexual predators on the Supreme Court. Scary shit.
 
I'm glad to see various people discredit themselves as emotional (non)thinkers by continuing to attack Kavanaugh after the show trial yesterday.

The ONLY reason for an FBI investigation is because the Democrats hope to win the midterms, in which case they can LEGALLY vote him out of the court instead of using these horrible, dirty, criminal tactics.

The democrats will be slaughtered in the midterms over this. Watch.
 
It's like a he said, they said at this point. He also blatantly lied to the committee yesterday, and displayed an aggressively partisan temperament which is disqualifying in and of itself.

the repubs had no issue delaying Obama's nominee for almost a year. Yet now one more week of investigation is simply too much.

All I can say, when he's confirmed, the blue wave (if it exists) just got about a hundred feet taller. Sexual predators in the White House, sexual predators on the Supreme Court. Scary shit.

No, every man who isn't hard democrat (and their mothers, sisters, wives etc) just saw that they can be attacked at any time, and the entire left and much of the media will paint them as gang rapists.
 
And regardless of the hearing:
All 4 of Ford's witnesses say it never happened
NONE of Ramirez witnesses corraborate her story, which she needed 6 days of coaching to come up with.
Avenetti's story is just stupid and silly, 10 gang rape parties would have at least 1 witness (besides Swetznick or whatever her name is)
 
I haven't watched the hearings, I can't give my opinion.

I saw the highlights and feel I saw enough.

the repubs had no issue delaying Obama's nominee for almost a year. Yet now one more week of investigation is simply too much.

All I can say, when he's confirmed, the blue wave (if it exists) just got about a hundred feet taller. Sexual predators in the White House, sexual predators on the Supreme Court. Scary shit.

^ this; qft
 
Adept analysis TLB. <3

**
Rightwing women react to Kavanuagh's testimony:

"I'm on the brink of tears".

I appreciate your response...up to the last line. Was that intended as a joke? How on earth is there a mechanism for Trump to coerce Kavanaugh? IF Kav were placed on the SC, he would be further beyond the influence of the President - immune to any threats or promises from any President. Can you expand on what you meant, please?

I thought I'd try my hand at a bit of conspiratorial thinking there.

If anything, its probably the other way around and Kavanaugh has dirt on Trump. ;)
 
Last edited:
"Radio host and National Rifle Association spokeswoman Dana Loesch said that to torpedo Kavanaugh would usher in a “new standard of not being judged by your competency as an adult, but by your fart jokes and beer drinking as a teenager (as no evidence has materialized to prove true any of these claims).”"

I don't remember Ford saying anything about fart jokes when she was being questioned. Maybe I missed that part.

Then again... maybe that's why the two boys were laughing!!
 
At the risk of straying slightly off topic, I wish we'd stop using polygraphs. They're not widely used pretty much anywhere else in the world for anything. America's about the only place that trusts those stupid things for almost any purpose.

...

I for one don't think the standard of proof for you to be a worthy individual for an extremely important job be that high. Now I realize that at first glance that may appear to contradict my point about polygraphs. But the thing about polygraphs is I don't see them as any level of evidence at all. An eye witness may not be great evidence, but I'd still consider them evidence to at least some degree. It still requires that a human make a plausible and consistent public accusation against someone. Whereas I don't consider polygraphs evidence of anything at all.

Wholly agree. Polys are fallible to the point they should be sent to traveling circuses as a novelty. I'll take a witness anyday over a poly.


Anything involving humans is so unreliable.

I believe polygraphs aren't admissible in court. However, I was impressed Dr. Ford was willing to take one, moreso than the results.

Yay, she was willing to take a Poly, considering anyone she named as a witness stated it didn't happen. :\

They aren't admissible in court, but to the best of my knowledge they are still used more in the US than almost anywhere else. And they're a joke and shouldn't be legitimized.

Yes people are highly unreliable, but polygraphs are even worse, they're like leaving a question up to a magic 8ball.

Too true (love the 8-ball comment). However, even for a poly to be considered, it ought to be adminstered by someone who knows what they are doing, and that they do an adequate job of it. Like, asking baseline questions, asking questions known to be true or false to understand the readings, and then to ask questions about the matter at hand. But, in this case....

Ford Polygraph Results Released. Did They Just Blow a Huge Hole in Her Story?

Bizarrely, the person conducting the polygraph — who was a third-party examiner and not a law enforcement official — had Ford scribble down her nearly 40-year-old memory of the drunken party, and then asked her two vague questions.

Those two questions were: “Is any part of your statement false?” and “Did you make up any part of your statement?”

This is absolutely important to understand: Again, the polygraph test didn’t actually ask the main accuser any questions about Kavanaugh. His name was never brought up by the interviewer.

Instead, Ford was simply asked if she she believed her own hand-written statement.

It gets even more strange, as nowhere in that written statement does the name “Kavanaugh” appear, either.

And, to make matters worse, the statement from Ford that she was then asked about by the polygraph examiner directly contradicts different versions of the alleged event that the accuser has also given.

“Ford’s polygraph letter contradicts letter she sent to Feinstein,” pointed out Charles C. W. Cooke, the editor of The National Review.

...

The problems with this accuser’s story don’t stop there. Buried in the release of the weak polygraph results was the fact that Ford was in Maryland — on the other side of the country from her home in California — to take that test.

But the supposed reason she couldn’t appear to testify in front of the Senate and answer questions about her accusations was that she’s afraid of confined spaces, which means she won’t travel by plane.

“The GOP has been told that Ford does not want to fly from her California home to Washington … which means she may need to drive across the country,” reported Politico just five days ago. “Ford has reportedly told friends she is uncomfortable in confined spaces, indicating a physical difficulty in making the trip by plane.”

So she took the polygraph when she was in the mid-Atlantic, then drove back to California to be there after the 10th?

Yet the letter from Ford to Senator Feinstein made no mention of this difficulty, and casually mentioned that she planned to be back in California from the East Coast in less than three day’s time.
 
Top