• DPMC Moderators: thegreenhand | tryptakid
  • Drug Policy & Media Coverage Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Drug Busts Megathread Video Megathread

Kalynda Davis' friends shocked at ice arrest in China

This thread has taken a strange turn.
I totally get people wanting our community - and especially mods - to treat all drugs equally in their minds, and not be biased against any, just because we don't choose to use them.
However, I also totally get the "fuck meth" perspective, as part of the need to be honest and open about our knoweldge and opinions about drugs (notice: not about meth-users, but about the drug itself).
After all, meth causes more damage and destruction per user than most other drugs, in my experience. (And this apparently matches nsa's experience.)
So, I don't think that we should leave all criticism of drugs to the prohibitionists. Our criticisms - if they are based on experience and education - are more important and relevant than anything that prohibitionists could say. Criticising drug users for their choice of drug is not fair - after all, people who are naturally "slower" might want something to speed them up, and people who are naturally "faster" might want to slow down. But noting generalizations about how drugs affect people and society based on experience and education is an important part of harm reduction.
Should we all pretend that meth is safe and wonderful if you use it right? Seems silly to me.

There is a difference between noting a drug's negative effects and saying "fuck drug x, it's pathetic." I see no value in that kind of vitriol. Although it may ostensibly be aimed at the drug itself and not its users, it certainly is not the kind of attitude that is conducive to solidarity between people with different drug preferences.
 
How Tinder led Kalynda Davis down the rabbit hole

WHEN Kalynda Davis met charismatic Peter Gardner on dating app Tinder, she was immediately captivated.

Like most Tinder hook-ups, things moved quickly and a few weeks after exchanging details in October, the loved-up pair boarded a China-bound plane together on November 5.

Then, just three days later, their living nightmare began.

As the western Sydney couple boarded their flight home from Guangzhou, they were arrested on suspicion of smuggling 75kg of methamphetamine — known as the street drug Ice — back to Australia.

The daughter of a former NSW police officer was taken into custody in the Communist state, linked to more than $80 million worth of drugs found in checked-in luggage.

Thousands of kilometres away from the safety of her two-storey brick family home in Glenmore Park, the 22-year-old now faced death by firing squad.

The promising athlete and basketball player was transported to a detention centre in shackles and had her long blonde hair cut into a short bob.

As she sat in her tiny cell, word of her arrest reached the Australian Consulate-General office in Guangzhou.

Her father Larry remained clueless for several days about the fate that had befallen his daughter. On November 10, after noticing their daughter had not accessed her Facebook account in several days, Kalynda’s family contacted police to report her missing.

Before leaving Australia, the couple told their families they were travelling to Guangzhou for a short break but would return to Sydney for a few days, before flying on to New Zealand for an extended holiday.

No return

It was later confirmed to the family that Kalynda never boarded her return flight to Sydney.

Then, on November 12, came the shocking news. The Davis family were alerted their daughter had been detained in China in relation to drug trafficking.

The job of securing Kalynda’s release was given urgent priority by DFAT and negotiations with Chinese officials began, personally overseen by Foreign Minister Julie Bishop.

In the critical days after Kalynda’s arrest, Canberra-based DFAT officer Claire Went was appointed by DFAT as the family’s liaison.

Under Chinese law police can detain suspects for up to 37 days without laying a charge and it took consular officials three-weeks to strike a deal.
Kalynda Davis

Kalynda’s carry-on luggage was the crucial piece of the puzzle that would ultimately secure her release. There was now distance between her and the drug-filled suitcase, allegedly jam-packed with Ice, which had been checked-in at the counter.

As behind-the-scenes diplomatic negotiations continued between consular and Chinese officials, the Australian public remained in the dark until news broke last week.

Kalynda’s parents Larry and Jenny were told to remain tight-lipped — on advice from Penrith-based Bell Lawyers and Chinese legal firm Wang Jing — as they waited for their daughter’s safe passage home.

During the family’s “nightmare” one-month wait, it was Ms Went who kept them sane.

“Without the support of Ms Went we would not have been able to get through this difficult time,” Larry and Jenny said in a statement.

Upon finding out his daughter would be released last Friday, Larry flew to China the following morning.

With the support of DFAT officials, and with Kalynda’s release kept confidential, the father and daughter returned to Sydney on Tuesday morning.

In an interview with The Western Weekender, Larry described the moment he was reunited with his youngest child.

“Her and I are close, as close as any father and daughter could be. I never once thought that she had done anything wrong,” Larry said.

“I knew she was so innocent. I prayed every night that the truth would come out, I prayed for the authorities, that it was dealt with in the way that it was dealt with, and our prayers were answered.”

On the flight home, the former Penrith Christian College student kept telling her dad “I’m sorry”, “I didn’t do it” before both broke down in tears as they touched down at Sydney airport.

Larry described their ordeal as a “parent’s worst nightmare”, and it was particularly tough for the family on Kalynda’s birthday on November 22.

“(In the beginning) we never slept, we walked around aimlessly but with the support of others our outlook changed. We were in the depths of despair but we grew into a family of hope,” he said.

Kalynda, who has avoided the media glare, remains in the dark on the future of her boyfriend.

Gardner, a New Zealand-born 25-year-old builder who lives in the Sydney suburb of Richmond, remains behind bars in China.

Recruited

Senior police sources told The Daily Telegraph earlier this week Gardner may have been recruited by an organised crime syndicate in Sydney to smuggle the drugs.

There are approximately eight Australians detained in southern China over links to international drug networks following a crackdown by local authorities.

As of October this year, there were more Australians jailed in China than anywhere else in the world with the Chinese system boasting a 99 per cent conviction rate.

The majority of the 42 Australians behind bars in China were arrested and charged over business, fraud and family-related charges.

All Australian citizens receive ongoing consular support from DFAT, with current high-profile prisoners including Rio Tinto executive Stern Hu, Charlotte Chou and Dr Du Zuying.

The cases against some prominent Chinese-Australian citizens have been described by their families and supporters as set-ups, designed to damage their business interests.

High-profile entrepreneur Matthew Ng (held on bribery, embezzlement and corporate charges) was sent to Sydney from Guangzhou last month as the first Australian prisoner returned since a prisoner transfer agreement was struck with China in 2011.

Carl Mather, an English teacher married to a Chinese woman, was arrested and jailed for assault in 2011.

He was later released and deported, moving his family to New Zealand. Mather claimed the assault was in self-defence after his house was stormed by a group of men trying to extort money from his wife.

Australians currently make more than 300,000 trips to China per year.

After a recent crackdown on drugs, DFAT issued a new warning to travellers warning them against carrying luggage or parcels in-and-out of China for third parties.

“Penalties for serious drug offences in China are severe and include the death penalty,” the DFAT travel advice states.

“In 2014, a number of foreigners have been arrested for allegedly trafficking commercial quantities of drugs, mainly when attempting to exit China at the airport in Guangzhou and also in Hong Kong.

“Foreigners have been executed for drug offences in China in recent months.”

DFAT also warns against the “use or possession of even small quantities of ‘soft’ drugs”, which carry harsh penalties.

Kalynda is one of the luckiest Australians to have been held in a Chinese detention centre.

The identities of other Australians currently behind bars have been kept confidential by authorities who are engaged in similar negotiations with Chinese officials to secure their release.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-the-rabbit-hole/story-fni0cx12-1227154179062
 
There is a difference between noting a drug's negative effects and saying "fuck drug x, it's pathetic." I see no value in that kind of vitriol. Although it may ostensibly be aimed at the drug itself and not its users, it certainly is not the kind of attitude that is conducive to solidarity between people with different drug preferences.

This is the key - to work towards solidarity. I completely agree with you.
And I see your perspective (at least I believe that I do).
But I don't think that tiptoeing around our (hopefully informed) opinions about drugs is the way to achieve solidarity.
I agree that "pathetic" was probably a poor word choice.
We definitely need to be nice to our comrades. But needn't hide our opinions about drugs...
For me, while I can understand the "fuck meth" perspective (as stated earlier), I also fully support the legalization of meth and all substances. People should be allowed to have freedom to alter their consciousness in any way available.
And I don't look down on anyone who chooses to use any drug, even drugs that I, myself, hate (including tobacco).
So, I guess, I feel sad that we are snapping at each other, and I want us to work together, but I am hesitant to proclaim that negative comments about specific substances should be avoided. I hope I have explained myself clearly, and that you can see my perspective.

Peace. <3
 
Peter Gardner may face death penalty in China for drug smuggling

1418466621157.jpg


Chinese authorities must decide today whether to charge 25-year-old Peter Gardner for drug trafficking or release him.

Australian/New Zealand dual national Peter Gardner's chances of avoiding the death penalty in China have rapidly deteriorated with local customs officials revealing that they believe he was the owner of two pieces of luggage stuffed with 30 kilograms of methamphetamine, also known as ice.

Sunday marks D-Day for the 25 year-old builder as it is his 37th day in detention, the longest Chinese authorities can keep a person without releasing them or charging them.

However, shocking details provided to The Sun-Herald indicate that customs officials believe Mr Gardner was involved in a drug-smuggling plot and his travelling partner, 22-year-old Kalynda Davis, had no knowledge or involvement.

Guangzhou Customs said that Mr Gardner, from Richmond in Sydney's north-west, was the owner of two drug-filled bags checked in to Flight CZ325 from Guangzhou to Sydney. The zippers were sealed with super glue and, when they were prised open in an interrogation room at Baiyun Airport, officials said they found 60 vacuum-sealed bags of suspicious particles, later proven to be 30 kilograms of the drug ice –the largest single haul of ice headed overseas ever seized by Guangzhou customs.

Guangzhou Customs also revealed it had caught another Australian national attempting to smuggle drugs out of China just this month –the 11th Australian caught in similar circumstances this year –underlining the thriving drug trade between southern China and Australia. The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) is understood to be providing ongoing consular assistance to as many as nine Australians on serious drug charges in China, some of whom are potentially facing the death penalty.

Mr Gardner and Ms Davis, who booked tickets to travel to Guangzhou for just three days, were pulled aside at 9.55pm on November 8 after officials detected irregularities with two pieces of luggage they checked in.

In a move that has raised many unanswered questions, Ms Davis was abruptly released 30 days later and returned home to Glenmore Park this week with her elated parents Larry and Jenny.

"After investigation, it was discovered that this drug trafficking was operated by [Gardner]," Guangzhou Customs told Fairfax Media in a statement.

"There was no evidence that shows [Davis] had any subjective intention to take part in this drug trafficking crime and she has been released back to Australia now."

Under Chinese law, police can detain those suspected of serious crimes for 30 days without charge, after which prosecutors can decide within seven days whether to indict.

Mr Gardner's family have not flown to China and he remains in a Guangzhou detention centre awaiting his fate. They declined to comment on the case.

His father Russell appeared relaxed and upbeat in posts made online during the week about the stormy weather and drinking beers, however, his younger sister Layken, a personal assistant living in Bellevue Hill, is distraught and has tried to contact her brother in writing, friends say.

Former school friends described Mr Gardner as a gentle, friendly guy. He has an unblemished criminal record in NSW apart from a drink driving charge.

"He is a really great guy, really caring, nice and softly spoken, I guess he just got tangled in a bad way of life," said one friend from Richmond High School. "Every time I talked to him he was always genuine and never seemed like he would get involved in that."

Mr Gardner was a hard-working builder, running his own business for a couple of years and preparing to start work again by setting up a new ABN just a day before he flew to China.

He was born in New Zealand but grew up in Sydney and is a dual citizen. The New Zealand government has taken charge of his case, indicating that he entered China on his New Zealand passport.

A spokeswoman for the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade said they had visited Mr Gardner in the detention centre to provide consular advice and check on his wellbeing.

"He remains in custody and has legal representation," the spokeswoman said. "The Ministry cannot comment on the ongoing investigation or interfere in the judicial proceedings of another country."

After Ms Davis returned to Sydney this week, her father revealed that she was cleared because she had carry-on luggage only.

He told a local newspaper that Ms Davis was shackled in a small cell during the 30-day investigation, was not allowed to have contact with the outside world and had her long, blonde hair cropped.

Mr Davis only flew to China the day after she was granted a release on December 5. The family had remainedlargely in the dark until then, instead allowing consular officials to deal with the matter in the best possible way.

"When I saw her for the first time, I just collapsed," he said. "She kept saying 'I'm sorry Dad, I didn't do it, I didn't do it, I didn't do it.'"

He said Mr Gardner was a friend and the pair had planned to have a holiday to New Zealand but decided at the last minute to add a three-day trip to China at the start then return to Sydney for two days then fly to New Zealand.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/peter-gar...china-for-drug-smuggling-20141213-126dho.html
 
The zippers were sealed with super glue

He probably never even saw what was in the bag. They were probably just handed to him. Or maybe someone else just checked luggage that he never even new about since he may only have had carry on as well.
 
Kalynda Davis’ boyfriend facing firing squad in China over drug smuggling charges

THE father of a Sydney man who may face a Chinese firing squad for alleged drug smuggling says he has no idea if his son is innocent.

In the family’s first interview, Russell Gardner said his son Peter was “doing okay”’ despite staring down the barrel for allegedly attempting to traffic 75kg of methamphetamine from China to Australia.

Peter’s girlfriend Kalynda Davis has been freed and allowed to return to Sydney, while he languishes in a Chinese prison cell, awaiting the end of a month-long investigation by Chinese authorities.

During that time he’s been barred from any contact with his worried family, except for a couple of letters he has sent home.

“Of course it does,” Russell Gardner says when asked if the death sentence was weighing heavily on his mind.

“I’ve got over that initial shock you get at first, but you’ve got to take it as it comes. We’re managing, we’re pulling together. We’re still a close family. The Chinese are treating him okay.”

Gardner said his 25-yer-old son had never been in serious trouble before, but didn’t want to speculate on his guilt.

“I don’t know if he’s innocent. She obviously was innocent because the police wouldn’t have let her go if they couldn’t pin it on her. There’s probably more to the story but the embassy know and the lawyers know.”

He compared the attention the case was getting to another infamous drug smuggling case. “It’s the whole Schapelle Corby thing, you know, pretty blonde girl.”

Russell Gardner — a former New Zealand air force engineer — said he had hired a Chinese lawyer and the family were anxiously awaiting the outcome of the Chinese investigation.

He said the total Peter was alleged to have been carrying of 75kg of meth, worth $86.3 million, was “someone’s wild guess”.

“I don’t know where they got that figure from because [even the] lawyers don’t know yet. The police haven’t released it, the investigation is still going. When he gets charged we’ll know then I suppose.

But you’re not allowed to carry more than 20kg in luggage anyway.”

Mr Gardner, originally from Hawkes Bay, said he and his ex-wife Sandy moved their family to Sydney in the late 1990s. He now works at Australian Aerospace, on a Royal Australian Air Force base in Richmond, west Sydney.

Peter’s mother Sandy Cornelius returned to New Zealand several years ago and lives in Kaiapoi, north Canterbury. She could not be reached for comment.

Russell said Peter was still close to his New Zealand family, and had been to visit his mother just a few months ago.

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...muggling-charges/story-fnii5s3x-1227155279076
 
This is the key - to work towards solidarity. I completely agree with you.
And I see your perspective (at least I believe that I do).
But I don't think that tiptoeing around our (hopefully informed) opinions about drugs is the way to achieve solidarity.
I agree that "pathetic" was probably a poor word choice.
We definitely need to be nice to our comrades. But needn't hide our opinions about drugs...
For me, while I can understand the "fuck meth" perspective (as stated earlier), I also fully support the legalization of meth and all substances. People should be allowed to have freedom to alter their consciousness in any way available.
And I don't look down on anyone who chooses to use any drug, even drugs that I, myself, hate (including tobacco).
So, I guess, I feel sad that we are snapping at each other, and I want us to work together, but I am hesitant to proclaim that negative comments about specific substances should be avoided. I hope I have explained myself clearly, and that you can see my perspective.

Peace. <3



Havent posted for ages, but this topic including the seemingly easy let off for Miss Davis and the attention from Julie Bishop, which smacks of 'taking care of our own' as well as now the talk of solidarity among drug users in regards to Ice. '

Personally I feel sorry for Ice users (how could I not, being hooked to something like Ice is a terrible weakness), but when they start hurting others this sympathy is rapidly drained to nil and instead scorn is what they will get. Ice users, all of them, need to get help. Its an evil drug, it destroys people, it adds nothing good to anything,ever. As for the talk of not restricting personal liberties, well say for instance, if we lived in a truely open and fair society, if someone willingly brought Ice into my community, I would throw them off a cliff and be supported by the rest of our people. Having seen Ice degrade so much around me in the last 10 years. I have no time for it. its beyond dirty, it opens people to up to a world of crap. im sorry if this offends any Ice users, but thats not my problem. They have far bigger problems to worry about then what someone on the internet thinks. The rapidly developing holes in their brain and the ever decreasing cognitive ability should be enough of a concern, as well as the ever thinning connection within themsevles to anything good and decent, that doesnt rely on the external to feel good. Now I will end this with saying I support decriminalisation in areas, however for manufacture, currently I would probably increase penalties, as well as importation. cant have every fucking prick thinking they can make a buck off the most junky of junkies, may as well at least leave it to the pricks that are supposed to do be doing something good with the money (goverment).
 
Methamphetamine has been considered a "safe and effective" medicine by the FDA for decades (their words, not mine), in fact it is considered safe for daily use in children.

The vast majority of people who try methamphetamine are not addicts. In the 2010 U.S. national drug use survey, it was found that only 2.7% of people who had ever tried methamphetamine had used it in the past month.

Might also want to check out this report by Carl Hart:

methamphetamine-dangers-exaggerated-featured-20140219.jpg


I am not trying to argue that methamphetamine use is never harmful, but the vicious hyperbole that is applied to it is ridiculous.
 
He probably never even saw what was in the bag. They were probably just handed to him. Or maybe someone else just checked luggage that he never even new about since he may only have had carry on as well.

This has actually happened to me, I was departing an asian airport and a strange asian woman came up to me and asked me if I could accept her luggage since she was over her weight limit, I said no and after I had finished checking in I noticed the girl at the counter had printed out a luggage tag with my name and was about to place it on the womans bag. I said "hold the fuck up!"

People are unwittingly made into mules all the time..... always pay attention to your luggage in airports and at check in!

As for meth, well I don't see much difference between it and other amphetamines and stimulants except for the hyperbole around it, although I know a few folks who have been caught up in dangerous use patterns, I know as many who can use it very occasionally without any issues.
No more "pathetic" than alcohol or tobacco or any other addictive substance IMO.
 
I am not trying to argue that methamphetamine use is never harmful, but the vicious hyperbole that is applied to it is ridiculous.

I used to use it on and off for a few years, but became concerned about the potential for neurotoxicity, and now I stick with mostly modest doses of pharma-d-amp if I feel like I need a temporary but effective CNS jolt.
 
Pretty rich white girl goes home, working class white boy gets a firing squad, and so the world turns...
 
Methamphetamine has been considered a "safe and effective" medicine by the FDA for decades (their words, not mine), in fact it is considered safe for daily use in children.

The vast majority of people who try methamphetamine are not addicts. In the 2010 U.S. national drug use survey, it was found that only 2.7% of people who had ever tried methamphetamine had used it in the past month.

Might also want to check out this report by Carl Hart:

I am not trying to argue that methamphetamine use is never harmful, but the vicious hyperbole that is applied to it is ridiculous.

I know people who used methamphetamine decades ago during the 60s and early 70s when it was easily available via prescription. Some did get addicted to it, while others did not. But this is not something I would ever gamble with as I've seen way too many people get addicted to meth.
 
I think the issue here is not the potentially harmful effects of methamphetamine - it is it's extreme profitability.

I'm sceptical about the Australasian tabloid media just as I am about the Chinese state press - and for that matter, the police investigations (and more specifically the 'information' making it into the public arena.

If the Australian Federal Police tipped off Chinese Authorities (which they did in the case of the 'Bali Nine' in he early 2000s, they are breaching Australian law - which is never to cooperate with countries (in serious alleged offences) that would see people the defendants facing the death penalty.
So I don't believe their lines.

As for the Chinese-run press? Forget it. I skim though a couple of english language Chinese Newspapers that we have subscriptions to at work - the phrase "unreliable narrator" comes to mind in virtually every story.
...and the same goes for the Australian corporate. Press in afraid - especially in this instance.
What do they have to go on besides the 'official line' of the Chinese government/prosecutors/state-run (govt mouthpiece) press?

Family and friends of the accused; hardly the most impartial sources, especially if they are unnamed sources (not sure if that's the case here, but a dodgy journo trick nonetheless for printing unsubstantiated shot.

....which basically leaves us with a whole tale of unverifiable information from highly untrustworthy sources.

Again though - this is an international incident, at a very sensitive time in Australian/Chinese relations, in regard to the Free Trade Agreement.
The relationship between aust and china has always been really complicated.
Now - infinitely more so.

I wouldn't be at all surprised (from the australian side) if this is about preventing another backlash from the Australian public against our very unpopular prime minister (a la the Corby case with Indonesia) as some of the scant/contradictory details we are being fed could indicate that one - or both - of these mules are innocent.
If there is reason to suspect that the young woman was u bowing lay pulled into this situation, it allows the Chinese to both save domestically and in negotiations with Australia on the FTA.

Why is this important to the Chinese to have a PR win with a lightweight like Australia in this situation?
Because the Australian government is so incredibly unpopular, that a large popular shift amongst the Australian electorate could queer the deal.
And for China, that would be a bad thing; as the superpower in these "negotiations", China undoubtedly calls the shots.
That being the case, why fuck it up by executing some Aussie tabloid sensation.
I'd be very surprised if her released was unrelated to some high-level diplomatic negotiations - the liberals copped enough blame worth the Corby case - and China's relationship with Australia is a very different one to that of Aust and Indonesia.

I'm glad she's been set free, but I think it is a bit premature to assume the boyfriend knew any more than she did (assuming she knew nothing).
Basically, this is a clusterfuck of International Politics, high level trade agreements that the Chibese govt do not wish to jeopardise (because clearly they'll be the far bigger beneficiaries of such an arrangement) and Australian prime minister Abbott knows his days are likely numbered, especially if he brings yet another PR disaster down upon himself.

I could be wrong about the above theory, but i think we all know that billions of dollars in trade agreements are worth more to the international financial (minerals, agriculture, manufacturing, imports/exports) interests than a drug mule or two.
My hunch is that nobody on either side wants to see the media circus play out all over again as it did in Bali a decade ago - but in this instance, the free trade agreement trumps all "deterrents to foreigners smuggling drugs".

Governments and LE know that drug mules are usually desperate victims anyway.
Call me cynical, but I don't think people's lives, people's innocence or the "evil" of methamphetamine has anything to really do withy his story.
It's much more complicated; much more sinister in my opinion.
 
Methamphetamine has been considered a "safe and effective" medicine by the FDA for decades (their words, not mine), in fact it is considered safe for daily use in children.

The vast majority of people who try methamphetamine are not addicts. In the 2010 U.S. national drug use survey, it was found that only 2.7% of people who had ever tried methamphetamine had used it in the past month.

Might also want to check out this report by Carl Hart:

I am not trying to argue that methamphetamine use is never harmful, but the vicious hyperbole that is applied to it is ridiculous.

Sorry bro but you're wrong. The FDA is hardly a barometer of actual safety.. They are a toothless tiger that mostly approves anything big business and goverment wants. They declare genetically modified corn safe, where people have done many tests and it gives rats stomach cancers. Usually I say fuck the FDA and any one that supports it.. But you seem more naive then actually bone headed. Lol and i know a bunch of supposed ex-meth heads who still use at least once a month and then are crap for rest of month.. They are still addicts..

The hyperbole is deserved..
Any drug that when you smoke simulates what happens when you die in your brain ie. massive rush of dopamine, is fucked up.. No one should use it ever. Especially smoking.. If you gave meth to my son, I'd fucking kill you or at least hurt you severely. And my spirit won't be weighed down a jot by any meth users.. Aiiight :p
 
The hyperbole is deserved..
Any drug that when you smoke simulates what happens when you die in your brain ie. massive rush of dopamine, is fucked up.. No one should use it ever. Especially smoking.. If you gave meth to my son, I'd fucking kill you or at least hurt you severely. And my spirit won't be weighed down a jot by any meth users.. Aiiight :p

While I appreciate what you're saying, meth is not available for prescription in crystalline form.
Ie to smoke.
Meth is meth is meth, but purity, dosage, ROA and cultural (that is to say addictive/binging) practices make a huge differences I the harm associated with the drug's notoriety for harm.
A few mg of methamphetamine in tablet form (taken as prescribed) is just not the as pure shard vaped or injected.

Chemicals in and of themselves are not 'evil' or 'bad' - it is the way humans use those drugs and what effects manifest in those circumstances.
Like taking a 5mg oxycodone orally, compared to preparing 160mg of the same drug for intravenous injection.
Not the best analogy, but plenty of drugs are safe and acceptable to use in medically approved dosages and routes I administration.

If anything it is prohibition that had lead to an escalation in meth's danger by halting it's use as a prescription drug in weak doses in tablet form (in the 50s to early 60s) to the extremely pure clandestine crystalline meth as we know it today.
Of course strong psychostimulants are dangerous.
But so are most of the drugs approved by the Goverment and pharmaceutical companies, come to think of it.
Therein lies one of the bleakest hypocrisies of all.
 
While I appreciate what you're saying, meth is not available for prescription in crystalline form.
Ie to smoke.
Meth is meth is meth, but purity, dosage, ROA and cultural (that is to say addictive/binging) practices make a huge differences I the harm associated with the drug's notoriety for harm.
A few mg of methamphetamine in tablet form (taken as prescribed) is just not the as pure shard vaped or injected.

Chemicals in and of themselves are not 'evil' or 'bad' - it is the way humans use those drugs and what effects manifest in those circumstances.
Like taking a 5mg oxycodone orally, compared to preparing 160mg of the same drug for intravenous injection.
Not the best analogy, but plenty of drugs are safe and acceptable to use in medically approved dosages and routes I administration.

If anything it is prohibition that had lead to an escalation in meth's danger by halting it's use as a prescription drug in weak doses in tablet form (in the 50s to early 60s) to the extremely pure clandestine crystalline meth as we know it today.

Spot on. I would wager that if caffeine were commonly smoked and injected in pure crystalline form, it would cause a lot of damage too. The formulation and ROA are, I think, much more significant factors than the identity of the compound when it comes to drug harms.
 
In my experience meth has really different effect profiles depending on route of administration.
Not defending it, but nobody deserves to be executed for selling a drug people are eager to buy.
And this coming from someone that considers free market capitalism to be the downfall of modern humanity ;)
 
Your points are fair. In my life not one person in the last 10 years has batted an eye lid when I suggested they snort or eat their shard. My point was that in a free society without regulation, I'd be living somewhere that people don't do completely synthetic drugs, If someone came into the community and started trying to get people to toke on ice/shard we'd throw them off a cliff. Perhaps not for real, however they certainly wouldnt be doing anything remotely similar again.

Lol I'm suss on loads of over the counters.. Anti hystamines and their complete improper use being one of them. However when it comes to crystal meth I've seen the destruction it causes both physically and ethereally.. Its hard for me to not aim both barrels at any potential proponent of that shit. Cocaine is pretty evil as well. Just read up on the history of Columbia for ample evidence.
 
Although re synthetic.. Still kind of confused about 'cid. Seems I can interact with organic and synthetic elements on that... I know It can be dangerous if mixed and can change a person for the worst potentially. Part of me believes it's some sort of sorting device like the magic hat in Harry potter.

Anyway don't wanna turn this into a synthetic vs organic debate
 
Top