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JWH-250... If it's toxic, how so?

Pegasus

Pegasus

Ex-Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
8,073
Alright, so I have experimented with vaporizing JWH-250 a bit, and really want to discuss the potential health risks of it here before going any further.

JWH-250 is obviously chosen because it does not have the naphthalene ring like the lower-numbered JWH's. With this issue averted, what risk remains?

JWH-250 is a cannabinoid, and thus my initial thoughts tended towards the substance being safe. I haven't had an experience that made me begin to question if this compound is dangerous, but I have begun wondering about this question of the other potential health risks of JWH-250. The only things I notice that concern me so far (other than the lack of research) are a mild chest "heavyness" that seems to accompany the drug sometimes (marijuana does this to me too, though); also, I noticed that the vapor that I inhale builds up on the glass above where the JWH-250 was heated, and the residue is like a white wax or something, much like the texture of the drug in the powder form but just spread across the glass as residue.

I wonder about inhaling this vapor, as it seems to still have a "sticky" consistency in the residue, and I wonder about what exposing the lungs to this type of "sticky vapor" could potentially cause.

I'm also wondering what the pharmacologists think about the structure of JWH-250 and its potential for toxicity. JWH-250 is a decent cannabinoid and I would like to use it more, but I'd like to find out as much as I possibly can about possible health concerns before taking my experimenting any further.

Thanks ahead of time for any help...
 
how does binding afficancy have to do anything with this? o_o
i get this mild chest "heavyness" as well from any cannabinoid ive tried so thats nothing to be worried about

compared to jwh-018 this compound doesnt have naphthalene ring, no epoxides :O
 
atara said:
IIRC it's a full agonist, which means there's more potential for any toxic effects associated with cannabinoid agonists relative to THC, which is a partial agonist.
Click to expand...

just to make it a little clearer: the OP seems to be worried about the toxicity of potential metabolites of JWH-250, not the toxicity of the actual pharmocological effects of the parent molecule.
 
I get a heavy feeling with absolutely anything I smoke. Within a few days of stopping, regardless of which JWH, that's completely gone.
 
It's not just the heaviness I'm talking about. I'm referring to any foreseeable dangers of the drug or this ROA of using it...
 
The discussion I've seen (including on this board) is what you've already covered, and various comments to the following:

1. It's safer than the napthalene JWHs
2. It's probably more dangerous than the napthalene JWHs
3. It's probably just as dangerous as the napthalene JWHs

I've spent some time sifting through Google, and I take it that there is no consensus. The more chemistry-literate folk around here seem to suggest there's no reason to think it's any safer than the napthalene JWHs.

This thread has some mixed discussion of 250 relative to 018:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=474536

I would like to think 250 is safer, and it's my preferred RC, but I've just accepted that there's a real level of risk associated with any of these products.
 
I would just look to keep doses low. Like others said it is a fill agonist. I would think that extends to its antagonist effects on GABA. That would explain more pronounced anxiety. I bet the risk for seizures is generally higher for all of these new cannibinoids.
 
Well, while I'm not qualified to judge the toxicity apart from the obvious lack of napthalene which avoids one potential risk, 250 is legal where I live. So it's certainly safer from a legal standpoint. Not what the OP was asking of course, but for the rapidly increasing number of people who live where 018 and 073 are banned quite important;)
 
I might be wrong about the GABA antagonism.

I looked it up:

"The results indicate that activation of CB1 cannabinoid receptors inhibits GABAergic neurotransmission in the VTA with a presynaptic mechanism. Depression of the GABAergic inhibitory input of dopaminergic neurons would increase their firing rate in vivo."

http://www.cannabis.net/gaba/index.html

They're talking about THC, but the study applies to all CB1 receptors from what I read. Considering THC is only a partial agonist at CB1 and most to all the synthetic CB1 agents are full agonists, I would have added concern. This would explain the pronounced anxiety and chest pains.

So, to be more specific, JWH-250 isn't a GABA antagonist directly, but instead modulates and depresses release of GABA in the hippocampal network via fully agonizing the CB1 receptor

Here's another link:
http://www.jneurosci.org/cgi/content/short/19/11/4544


Again, sorry if I caused confusion or if I'm just flat wrong.
 
When reading that post, I was thinking more about direct antagonistic action (read: ligand) than functional one. In this respect, I have to agree.

- Murphy
 
this cannabinoid gives me some insane restless leg symptomps!

it was so "painfull" that i dove into my opioid stash
maybe gabaergic mechanism?

no problem such as this with any other synthethic cannabinoid


ps: would that up-regulate gaba receptors?
 
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raybeez said:
I developed a rare subtype of asthma called small airway disease after smoking JWH-018 and -073, 1-2x a day for 18 months (asthma is normally located in the large airways). It's an obstructive lung disease almost exclusively caused by chemical/toxin exposure.
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Please make a post about this in the cannabis forums and in the synthetic cannabinoid thread in Psychedelic Drug Discussion if you haven't yet. This seems like it could be a real risk of these untested RCs that people need to be informed of.
 
raybeez said:
I developed a rare subtype of asthma called small airway disease after smoking JWH-018 and -073, 1-2x a day for 18 months (asthma is normally located in the large airways). It's an obstructive lung disease almost exclusively caused by chemical/toxin exposure.

It initially began as tightness in the chest feeling, then progressed to racing heart. I was convinced it was just paranoia/panic attack thing because at first it would only happen when I'd smoke a hero dose. Fast-forward 3 months later and I was in the hospital with 45% lung function.

It took me 4 months of oral steroids to reduce my lung inflammation until I was up to about 80%. I'll need to be intranasal steroids, inhaled steroids and bronchodialators for the rest of my life.

I'm a healthy male mid 20's, never had any lung problems before (eg childhood asthma, allergies, etc). Never smoked cigarettes, but was a frequent smoker of cannabis before switching to the JWH's.

I used to dissolve them in acetone, drop them them onto catnip, dry with gentle heating, and smoke in a vaporizor.

I can't conclusively say it was the JWH's (vs the catnip or trace ammounts of acetone ) that did it, but if you're experiencing any kind of chest/breathing symptomology, even if its just mild, I'd advice you to stop smoking them immediately!
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Jaybeez, I'm sorry to hear this.
Hey, I forget who I'm replying to, but we're both in the Bay state. We tend to be the most educated in the nation so, hope you can follow this:


This is hardly surprising, as napthalene's epoxide metabolites are the body's own version of synthetic SUPER-GLUE! Now, the new one..
From a bit of googling, the new part of the chain that replaces napthalene is broken down as such:

(1-pentyl-3-(2-methoxyphenylacetyl)indole)

PENTYL: (pentanol: When pure, it is nontoxic, while the impure product is toxic);(Pentyl pentanoate (C4H9COO.C5H11) is an ester used in dilute solution to replicate the scent or flavour of apple, and sometimes pineapple);(Pentylamine is a chemical compound with the formula CH3(CH2)4NH2. It is used as a solvent, as a raw material in the manufacture of a variety of other compounds, including dyes, emulsifiers, and pharmaceutical products,[2] and as a flavoring agent.);(Amyl acetate (pentyl acetate) is an organic compound and an ester with the chemical formula CH3COO[CH2]4CH3 and the molecular weight 130.19 g/mol. It has a scent similar to bananas[1] and apples which is not detectable by all people.)

METHOXYIn chemistry (particularly organic chemistry), methoxy refers to the functional group consisting of a methyl group bound to oxygen. It has the formula:
–O–CH3
The word is used in organic nomenclature usually to describe an ether. It is also an electron-donating group and can cause an organic compound to become less acidic.
Examples of methoxy ethers are methoxyethane and methoxypropane. In the field of natural compounds, examples bearing methoxy groups are O-methylated flavonoids. NOT VERY HELPFUL

PHENYL GROUPwhere the six carbon atoms are arranged in a cyclic ring structure. This hydrophobic, highly-stable and aromatic hydrocarbon unit can be found in many organic compounds. It can be thought of as being derived from benzene (C6H6). In fact, in chemical literature benzene itself is sometimes denoted as PhH. :(

ACETYLThe acetyl moiety is a component of many organic compounds, including the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, acetyl-CoA, acetylcysteine and the analgesics acetaminophen, and acetylsalicylic acid (better known as aspirin) NOT TOO SCARY

INDOLEndole is an aromatic heterocyclic organic compound. It has a bicyclic structure, consisting of a six-membered benzene ring fused to a five-membered nitrogen-containing pyrrole ring. Indole is a popular component of fragrances and the precursor to many pharmaceuticals. Compounds that contain an indole ring are called indoles. Notably, the indolic amino acid tryptophan is the precursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin.
INTRIGUING, ENLIGHTENING
Substituted indoles are structural elements of (and for some compounds the synthetic precursors for) the tryptophan-derived tryptamine alkaloids like the neurotransmitter serotonin, and melatonin. Other indolic compounds include the plant hormone Auxin (indolyl-3-acetic acid, IAA), the anti-inflammatory drug indomethacin, the betablocker pindolol, and the naturally occurring hallucinogen dimethyltryptamine (N,N-DMT).
GO ON...
Natural jasmine oil, used in the perfume industry, contains around 2.5% of indole. Since 1 kilogram of the natural oil requires processing several million jasmine blossoms and costs around $10,000, indole (among other things) is used in the manufacture of synthetic jasmine oil (which costs around $10/kg).
Indole is a big component of fragrance, ok..

Does this help? ;~}
 
kken said:
it was so "painfull" that i dove into my opioid stash
maybe gabaergic mechanism?
Click to expand...

It is really strange that you say that, because the first time I touched JWH-250 beyond the small dose reaction test, I took a decent vape hit of like 10-20mg (don't remember exact amount), and literally sped over to the side of the room where I had my benzos and took them almost instantly. I felt it, and there was something in those first few seconds that felt so wrong that I felt I had to abort it the best I could with benzos. I don't react like that to psychedelics ever, even if I am having a bad trip.

I think JWH-250 is going to remain a research sample for me in the foreseeable future, until some more is known on it...
 
LouDogLBC said:
Jaybeez, I'm sorry to hear this.
Hey, I forget who I'm replying to, but we're both in the Bay state. We tend to be the most educated in the nation so, hope you can follow this:

...


Does this help? ;~}
Click to expand...

Hey, I think your post is regarding substances with the naphthalene ring, which JWH-250 does not have. There are other concerns with the drug, and those were what I was intending to explore. There is not enough known about this drug yet for me to be comfortable letting myself use it, so I don't think I will...
 
Pegasus said:
a mild chest "heavyness" that seems to accompany the drug sometimes...I noticed that the vapor that I inhale builds up on the glass above where the JWH-250 was heated, and the residue is like a white wax or something, much like the texture of the drug in the powder form but just spread across the glass as residue.

I wonder about inhaling this vapor, as it seems to still have a "sticky" consistency in the residue, and I wonder about what exposing the lungs to this type of "sticky vapor" could potentially cause.
Click to expand...

I have the same worries about crack.

The way you describe it, it freezes like candles freeze. I accidentally stood over a candle the other day and got pretty much the same feeling in my lungs that I get after smoking a lot of crack: the feeling that my lungs have been coated with a thin layer of an amorphous solid.

Same feeling as the time I was dumb enough to drink hot coffee from a cup that was coated with wax (like those little Gatorade cups they hand out on football fields). There too the hot coffee was vaporizing the wax and I was inhaling some of it.
 
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