Just picked up some ICE! Looks a bit different from last time?

[GhOst]

well, education has to start somewhere... and wat better place to start than the DDs?
if DD or friend says, "i have ice.", i sit them down and tell them everything ive said in this thread, and suss out whether they know wat they're talking about.
ask to try a little, to gauge for yourself. or buy a small amount first. and remember to get back to the DD whether it is 4-MAR or meth. remind them the importance of knowing the difference, the potential for OD.
if DD is impatient/stubborn/cant be bothered, then its time to change DDs.
these days, alot of them are actually quite well-informed.

 

[Acid_Reign]

Ice is such a commonly used term for meth i think it's here to stay, at least for a long while. An apathetic attitude, yeh. But it's to much effort

I hate trying to correct people about drugs, generally they're so sure they're right. Other times i just feel like a knob correcting some random who calls their pill smacky

btw. I don't think you'll see freebase meth unless you know a cook. Freebase meth has no benfits but plenty of drawbacks. Freebase meth is an oily mess that, while active, is very difficult to handle.

------------------
You have to run as fast as you can just to stay where you are.
If you want to get anywhere you'll have to run much faster.
--Lewis Carroll

 

[Biscuit]

Acid-Reign:
yeah i agree with that; meth when made, as a freebase is an oil.
I just figured that there was a way to make it as u can make crack. (i am not certain freebase cocaine is crack; i'd have to look into it; but i think they "do something" to normal cocaine to MAKE crack)
U cant fool litmus paper however. As i said i TRIED to dissolve some in water. The solution turned red litmus straight to blue. I had made a BASIC solution.
Dissolving methamphetamine-hydrochloride in water (very easy) means u have methylamphetamine as an ion (the amine part exists as NH3+) and a chloride ion.
Being NH3+ the meth is an ACID.
So it cannot make a basic solution.
Plus a sample vaporised in less than a second after applying a flame to foil; salts would never do that; they boil at very high temperatures.
They certainly wouldnt melt as it appeared they were doing at less than 40 deg.
(from erowid; cocaine as the hydrochloride melts at 195 deg, as a nitrate-dihydrate (is this the form of crack??) at only 60 deg.
Obviously cocaine is not meth, its a lot larger and would have higher melting temperatures; but the vast range of melting points according to the form its in would correlate to meth.)
I do concede the term freebase is misleading. i used it because thats how crack is described.
Smokable meth i guess will do.
People r probably wondering y i am going on about this; basically its because one time i bought ice which had all the properties of a regular salt; the other time all the properties of "crack" meth.
(or perhaps it is 4-MAR that is usually in this form; it is generally thought to be smoked after all)
(i would love to get phase dancers opinion on all of this. i actually wonder whether 4-MARs structure is senstitive to stomach acids also; and hence oral activity may be a lot less if at all)
The other important consideration in all of this are potential adverse effects of snorting something possibly rather caustic?
[This message has been edited by Biscuit (edited 14 June 2001).]

 

[Acid_Reign]

All this chemistry's reminding me why i dropped it in year 11 and took up outdoor ed

I'm struggling, but i do understand what your saying. Very strange indeed

Crack is freebase cocaine. It's very simple to convert cocaine to crack and it has the benefit of being smokeable. Meth however is smokeable as a salt, so there's no need to freebase it.
Maybe it was cut with something that affected your testing?

 

[GhOst]

i seem to be posting this link quite often lately, for information on freebase cocaine and crack (which may or may not mean the same thing): http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/coc05.htm
im not sure i fully understand your question, Biscuit.

like Acid_Reign, im afterall not a chemistry student and the last time i touched a chemistry book was 8 yrs ago. i suggest posting your query in Other Drugs or email PhreeX (who knows meth synth), [email protected]. good luck!

 

[Biscuit]

Sorry guys; i was on a dexi fuelled study break. :
Needed someone there to slap me.
I confess i did not know ordinary meth was smokable.
It may well have been something that effected the test. The second sample was very moist and didnt look as well made.
I'll stand by it didnt want to dissolve in water though; which is just not right.
Guess we'll never know

 

[GhOst]

this has no proper scientific basis, but i think
* 4-MAR does not dissolve in water properly.
* methamphetamine does.

 

[Biscuit]

Yes that might be it.
Unlike meth the synth can be left at the freebase stage in solid form.
This would definitely not dissolve in water and would have the basic properties i found.
A FAQ says "it has a characteristic look and feel, like white opaque ice".
Whereas the first lot of ice that hit Perth back in May which some people called Shabu was amazing clear; definitely not opaque.
The second lot was opaque.
Does anyone know if breath odour is a side effect of Meth?
As it apparently is with 4-MAR, which i found i was getting, not horrid, u just could feel it was there. (thought it was kidney problems

but no, it looks like it was due to this "ice")
All rather confusing

 

[GhOst]

i would think both, but only bcos both 4-MAR and meth keep pple up for ages and some of them neglect personal hygiene/food (lack of salivation).

 

[Biscuit]

The breath odour i got was apparent an hour after taking it.
and that included washing it down with toothpaste.

 

[GhOst]

ahhh.. then i think u mean the "breath" u get from smoking chemicals.

u get that from smoking meth too.
its not bad breath, its chemical breath.

its not from your throat or lungs, its from the vapour itself leaving a taste in your throat.

 

[Biscuit]

4-MAR:
When ingested orally the usual dosage is 15-30 mg as the free base (18-36 mg as the HCl), onset of effects 1-2 hours, duration 14-16 hours.
"Qualitatively, the experience is similar to a long-lasting MDMA intoxication superimposed with methamphetamine, with the added benefits of easy verbalization, free association, integration and elaboration of previous insights.." - THE NEW AGE SCIENTIST, PM&E 4.
Transient somatic effects: increased respiration, tachycardia, tremors, perspiration, increased blood pressure, intraocular pressure, blurred visionand tightness in the chest.
Increased body and breath odor."
I didnt smoke mine; just a small sample orally taken. (~30mg)

 

[GhOst]

wow, i didnt know New Age Scientist has information on recreational chemicals!

the practice of ingesting isnt very common in melbourne amongst users (at least amongst pple i know). its always smoked to obtain maximum mileage (u need to smoke only a fraction of the amount for ingesting). im quite curious to know, wat were the effects u experienced when u ingested, Biscuit? length of time for come up, peak, wearing off of effects, able to sleep after etc?
bcos 4-MAR keeps u wired for such a long time, id prefer a stronger onset rather than longlasting effects... thus smoking vs ingesting.
as for the body odour/breath thing, we've nvr noticed it as an obvious issue... are u a regular user? (how often, how long do u stay up etc?)
this is a very interesting drug.

its amazing how focused pple are, on the effects. we can spend entire days doing our own thing, sometimes for 12 hour stretches, and with much more clarity than on amphetamines/methampetamines... apparently its a good tool for studying/assignments, and i can see why.(DISCLAIMER - im not encouraging use of 4-MAR for studying purposes.

)

 

[Biscuit]

Actually that dose would have been quite high to be honest.
Maybe only about 25mg, dissolved in water, drunk.
(it was actually the sample i used to do the NMR with; from the first very dry lot. wasnt going to waste it

drunk it ~ 11am)
It actually was for study that day (note i agree with your disclaimer)
Didnt notice onset really; obviously it wasnt a lot; became apparent when started note writing.
As u said very clear headed. I am rather sadly experienced with the good old dexi when it comes to study time. However with dexies its like u r a robot; u go through and make ur notes easily/fast enough but i often feel i dont remember even writing them.
Whereas this not only had me racing through, but thinking, understanding, remembering. Its was like i was writing the notes (law subjects) and forming an opinion etc of what i was going through.
Definitely not a regular user; i am very sensitive to breath odour as friends will tell u i have an obsession with toothpaste following any form of ingestion; food, drink, drug or otherwise

Have had this particular lot numerous times before though; as have friends. All very talkative, and say very long lasting, but not rushy, but of course they have little idea they probably havent had an amphetamine.
Unfortunately i have never knowingly had good meth, so thats the problem with me knowing which one it is.
But it certainly isnt rushy like i would have expected from meth; although times when i have cut it up and ingested too much i have been very, very wired, almost uneasy. Heart up around 100, so not racing, but beating EXTREMELY strongly, like out of my chest.
Now i presume this is from raised blood pressure?
in the FAQ it said something about significant effects on norepinephrine. As i understand it, this chemical is responsible for BP. connection?
Definitely good in small doses.
Havent tried smoking yet.
I was still with effects 12 hours after; and only just got to sleep.
I also sadly became quite uptight and agitated after this; and didnt feel sociable.
(Note: i was prised away from my work to see a friend, perhaps that had something to do with it

Eating not a mission though; i have a theory that while all amphetamines and related drugs tell your brain NOT to eat, only the ones which really effect u peripherally, have u rushing etc (DL-amphetamine, meth, MDMA), make it very hard and sickening to eat.
Definitely an unusual chemical.

 

[GhOst]

exactly the same effects as wat we had.

your brain goes into overclock mode, thinking and understanding is super-fast. and u remember everything. no edginess or jumpiness like with meth. very calm yet very alert. i remember thinking faster than i could type...
comparatively, meth gives a full on body rush, which makes it hard to do things like studying... its hard to sit still with all that adrenaline pumping. and attention span is pretty short. u get distracted by other things, like bopping to the music in the background, thinking off tangents etc.
smoking 4-MAR produces a better effect. it doesnt linger as long. after abt 6hrs, i could go to sleep.
toothpaste? have u tried Listerine?