• The Dark Side 💕 Welcome Guest 💕
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads Urgent Hotlines
    Bereavement Mindfulness
    Suicide Support Anger Management
  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Just Another Cautionary Tale

Jabberwocky

Jabberwocky

Frumious Bandersnatch
Joined
Nov 3, 1999
Messages
1,256
Location
Looking-Glass Land
Been pretty busy lately, no much time, sadly not even to check in here to my favorite forum and peak around. Stumbled across this earlier today though. Felt it might be worth sharing:

Heroin Helper said:
Suicide

Let me relate a personal anecdote from my using days that shows the limits to how much you can help someone. I knew this chipper who, despite not being addicted, was the most irresponsible user I have ever met. It was well-known from others who had used with him, that he would use as much heroin as he possibly could. Not surprisingly, the first time he used around me, he overdosed. It was not particularly bad. I managed to get him conscious quickly and made him swallow a naltroxon pill--partly because I was still a little concerned and partly because I wanted to punish him, since I had warned him not to do the amount he did.

On the second occasion it was much worse. He stopped breathing. I had to give him mouth to mouth resuscitation several times over the course of the half hour that he was unconscious. Again, I had told him he was doing way too much, but he did not listen (I later found out that in addition to doing all of his, he had stollen some from me). As I drove him home, I told him that he was not welcome around me ever again. As it turned out, that was the last time I saw him.

Maybe this was callous. But there is only so much you can do for some people. I had done what I could for him--including saving his life--but he would not accept my help when he was conscious. About a year later I found out that he had died of an overdose--either because he was alone or because he was with someone who couldn't or wouldn't help.
Click to expand...

http://www.heroinhelper.com/bored/stories/suicide.shtml
 
Thank you for sharing :).


I also didn't know that about bupe. Good info. Doubt if i'll ever need it but what the heck.
 
Yea, tis a little know fact, that, about bupe. But then again, it sure makes sense, for anyone who's ever take suboxone any route than sublingual.
 
Incorrect. CaptainHeroin IVs suboxone (not just bupe) daily. I used to snort it daily.
The naloxone in it has nothing to do with it. Bupe has a higher binding affinity for the receptors than most all opiods. It will knock the heroin off them and replace them, and as you probably know, bupe isn't really material to OD on, so you're essentially in the safe zone. Naloxone is in suboxone so that the manufacturer Reckitt Benckiser can keep a longer patent on it and circumvent the competition of generic medications.
 
While I know you are correct Dexter about using bupe to help OD victims in a jam I think its only fair to point out that an ambulance should still be called in an OD situation as there are no guarantees it will work. Also I can imagine a person getting jammed hard by the law if they were unsuccesful in reviving the person with sub and they died.
 
DexterMeth said:
Incorrect. CaptainHeroin IVs suboxone (not just bupe) daily. I used to snort it daily.
The naloxone in it has nothing to do with it. Bupe has a higher binding affinity for the receptors than most all opiods. It will knock the heroin off them and replace them, and as you probably know, bupe isn't really material to OD on, so you're essentially in the safe zone. Naloxone is in suboxone so that the manufacturer Reckitt Benckiser can keep a longer patent on it and circumvent the competition of generic medications.
Click to expand...

Very true, it's a common misconception that Suboxone can't be administered IV due to the naloxone..

Buprenorphine can work in an emergency, and has done - however it is by no means a substitute for calling an ambulance.. it's a tricky one, it could be life-saving or it could cause a fatal delay if someone is messing about administering it (especially prepping for IV) rather than calling an ambulance. Although it is rare that buprenorphine can cause overdoses as there is a ceiling on the respiratory depression, if you did manage to cause an OD with it naloxone would be useless at bringing the person round too.

Thank you for sharing TPD!

edit: ninja'd by crimsonjunk haha..
 
^@ both of you: ya, calling the EMTs is always the best idea. Sometimes you obviously can't though. Say were you like me, and ODd in the Grand Canyon (ya I know). Effie, iirc, you can still flush off bupe with naloxone, but it would take a lot more than is usually used. It's just, junkies are more likely to have bupe over naloxone, sadly.

-Edit: about calling 911: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/610673-Drug-Policy-Alliance-s-911-overdose-bill-clears-Senate
A relevant DITM thread.
 
Can you? I thought that as it had a higher affinity you couldn't use naloxone. Interesting :)

And yeah.. that is what stops me saying "no it is not a good idea"- if there is going to be a delay before the ambulance and naloxone arrive, buprenorphine could be lifesaving..
 
Any delay is a good one. Naloxone doesn't work like in the movies. You don't just shoot it up in the person and they're fine. They need continuous dosing forever how long the opiod lasts vs. the half-life of naloxone.
 
DexterMeth said:
Incorrect. CaptainHeroin IVs suboxone (not just bupe) daily. I used to snort it daily.
The naloxone in it has nothing to do with it. Bupe has a higher binding affinity for the receptors than most all opiods. It will knock the heroin off them and replace them, and as you probably know, bupe isn't really material to OD on, so you're essentially in the safe zone. Naloxone is in suboxone so that the manufacturer Reckitt Benckiser can keep a longer patent on it and circumvent the competition of generic medications.
Click to expand...

@Dex: I think you misunderstood my post.

I also used to snort suboxone, and the fact CH slams it is neither news nor, if I was unaware of this, would it have surprised me. The only point I was making was that, for anyone who has used/administered/ingested suboxone any way other than the prescribed sublingual, well, it wouldn't be so surprising that suboxone can be used in lue of narcan/pure naloxone if there is no other choice. In other words, since people such as you (Dex) and me, who snort suboxone, know that the naloxone in suboxone doesn't prevent one from using the medication intranasally (or IV), as bupe has a higher affinity to opioid receptors than does the naloxone, then it would make sense that suboxone/bupe can, when in an emergency situation with no other choice, be used as a replacement for narcan/pure naloxone.

Unnecessary to explain this, as everyone gets this here already methinks, but whatever, I'm a little ocd.

@effie: Yea, Dex is correct. You just have to use more narcan than you would normally. This makes sense, if one considers that one can still get high on full agonist opioids while on suboxone, as long as one takes enough of the full agonist opioids (e.g. I normally used to need 20-40mg oxycodone to get off, on suboxone I would need a minimum 60mg to feel it and more like 100mg to get off). Then again, this is tricky. For some reason, sometimes it's really easy to shoot through the bupe, so to speak, while other times it's next to impossible, regardless of how much one increases the dose (and of course, with increasing the dose so drastically one also increases risk of side effects, such as breathing issues, etc. etc.). Oh, and your are so very welcome, my dear :)
 
Cool I did not know that about naloxone and bupe ODs, thanks guys! :)

And yeah.. even if someone has some naloxone always call an ambulance, as dex said they will need a drip as the short life is pretty short.
 
EXTREME last case scenario, but if you don't even have bupe on you, chances are (least in the circles around here), someone will have methamp. This has saved me before. Someone stuck the pizzo in my mouth, hit me in the stomach and got me to inhale. I was up and able to start breathing and get water, etc. .Vomit.
 
Oh man!!! uhguhgugh can't even imagine that (this from someone who HATES smoking methamp).. .soo gross... but hey, if it works, and it's THE ONLY option, well, good to know. more tools in one's arsenal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top